1. #781
    Quote Originally Posted by Schaendwich View Post
    I have a couple of quick questions and i hope that some of you can help me with it . I didnt read through all the pages here, but the last 2-3, sorry if I missed something.

    1. What do I do in quick burst AoE phases? Obviously dotting everything should not make sense here. I have the problem, that I dont know what to do, after I activated immo aura in Meta. do I spam felflame?? Do I have to spec Harvest life to have a filler in AoE sitations? This is not covered in the guide
    For quick bursts I go into meta, activate immo aura, carrion swarm on CD, and keep attacking the boss/main target, this is enough for e.g. Ball Lightnings on Lei Shen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schaendwich View Post
    2. When is it worth it to dot targets with doom? I mean, how long must the targets live until it is a viable thing to do? Same for corruption!? Does it make sense to use corruption if I cant hit all the targets with felflame(meta) to refresh?
    E.g. the adds before DA is worth putting doom + corruption on if you're doing the AoE tactics, just do immo aura, carrion swarm(also interrupts) and spam Void Ray to keep Corruption rolling on all targets, dont forget double Felguard spin as well as imps to keep you in meta for a really long time.

    I use doom on e.g. the adds during DA just to get more fury/imps as they live rather long while the tanks drag them to the soak target. Other than that I can't really think of any adds that are spread out and can't be AoE/Void Ray'd.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schaendwich View Post
    3. How do I use UVoLS as a demo? do I just go meta + doom + toc + back to casterform when it procs? What is the best sequence?
    Sounds about right, not sure you have time to actually get ToC off as I haven't tried it myself but that sounds optimal.
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  2. #782
    I have not played Demo much this tier after heroics opened up, still don't have the Lei Shen trinket since it has never dropped for us. Mainly been playing destro with some Affliction mixed in (council, stupid Tortos slowing etc.).

    Now we're working on Durumu hc and I wanted to give Demo a try. But I can't get higher dps with it then with Destro, both sustained AND on Ice Walls I do more as Destro. I have 4 set, leg meta and play with hc Wushulay and normal Cha-Yen atm. The only part where Demo out performed Destro was on my opening burst really. Now I know Demo without the Lei Shen trinket is not great but I figuered this would be a good fight for it. So that got me thinking that I might be playing the fight wrong as Demo.

    We never have enough eye ball adds to be worth aoe'ing as demo so basicly it's single target -> aoe walls -> repeat. I'm making sure I always have Fel Storm and HoG charges for each Ice Wall ontop of having enough Fury to aoe. And I use DS/Service if it lines up, like on the first Ice Wall.

    Basicly go HoG/Fel Storm -> HF -> 2nd HoG so it just clips -> meta with imo aura. The few tries I was Demo before going back to Destro I was using Void Ray as filler, but when I thought about it afterwards I reckoned Harvest Life would probably hit more targets?

    Now I was playing with KJC as single target dps seemed more important then aoe dps for us. I understand I'd do more aoe with MF. But then again I played with KJC as Destro as well and was still doing clearly more Ice Wall damadge as Destro.

    I'd be interested to hear how some of the locks that have more experience with demo this tier have played this fight. Especially the Ice Walls but also general tips would be much apreciated. We have enough dps to down it with me as Destro, thats for sure (4% berserk wipe on a try with bad Drain management). But I would like to atleast know how to do it propperly as Demo.

  3. #783
    Hello, got a question about trinkets
    Why is volatile talisman so high on the trinket list and wuusholai so low?
    I have wushoolay normal, UVoLS normal, and shock charger upgraded 2/2 and I can get breath / cha-yes also if needed. But atm I don't know wich one to use , or wich is better..

  4. #784
    Quote Originally Posted by Divinedoom View Post
    I have not played Demo much this tier after heroics opened up, still don't have the Lei Shen trinket since it has never dropped for us. Mainly been playing destro with some Affliction mixed in (council, stupid Tortos slowing etc.).

    Now we're working on Durumu hc and I wanted to give Demo a try. But I can't get higher dps with it then with Destro, both sustained AND on Ice Walls I do more as Destro. I have 4 set, leg meta and play with hc Wushulay and normal Cha-Yen atm. The only part where Demo out performed Destro was on my opening burst really. Now I know Demo without the Lei Shen trinket is not great but I figuered this would be a good fight for it. So that got me thinking that I might be playing the fight wrong as Demo.

    We never have enough eye ball adds to be worth aoe'ing as demo so basicly it's single target -> aoe walls -> repeat. I'm making sure I always have Fel Storm and HoG charges for each Ice Wall ontop of having enough Fury to aoe. And I use DS/Service if it lines up, like on the first Ice Wall.

    Basicly go HoG/Fel Storm -> HF -> 2nd HoG so it just clips -> meta with imo aura. The few tries I was Demo before going back to Destro I was using Void Ray as filler, but when I thought about it afterwards I reckoned Harvest Life would probably hit more targets?

    Now I was playing with KJC as single target dps seemed more important then aoe dps for us. I understand I'd do more aoe with MF. But then again I played with KJC as Destro as well and was still doing clearly more Ice Wall damadge as Destro.

    I'd be interested to hear how some of the locks that have more experience with demo this tier have played this fight. Especially the Ice Walls but also general tips would be much apreciated. We have enough dps to down it with me as Destro, thats for sure (4% berserk wipe on a try with bad Drain management). But I would like to atleast know how to do it propperly as Demo.
    The main way you're going to get better wall dmg is with MF. Additionally, MF will get you better cleave on eye adds. Save your Imps for wall phase as well just for the fury gen so that you can be in meta longer durng maze. Now that the beam moves faster I find kjc being somewhat unsafe for maze if you are farther out. I usually play it safe and use rejuv, ward, coil as well for the instants movement.

    Another thing you can do is check pet positioning. The place your pet and service felguard set themselves is too far to cleave ice walls. Try having them attack one of the center walls. I don't think HL is better than void ray, although your healers might appreciate it. Make sure you void ray towards the center. Ice wall is on a 90s timer after the first, so you can always have felstorm for it using it on cd. I usually do HoG, corr/service, corr, corr, HoG, Immo, Carrion Swarm, void ray until HoG off cd, single HoG, meta, immo aura, Void ray, swarm. Usually by the time I get my first HoG chage back, a couple walls are still up, but not if I wait for the second charge, making it worth it. Although, you should remember to use a single hog during maze to line your cd properly to have a double HoG for the next walls.

    In general, you aren't going to do more overall wall dmg as demo than desto. However, you might be able to pull out more single target. That really depends on your relative skill with the two specs. Basic premise of demo is dump fury during trinket procs. Make sure you cast a doom at the end of wush proc. Using affdots addon really helps. Always plan to do HoG, filler, filler, HoG, Meta for empowered shadowflame.
    Last edited by Moruff; 2013-04-19 at 01:22 PM.

  5. #785
    Speaking of Durumu, soak Life Drain with UR, Sac Pact and Twilight Ward. Depending on the size of the Soul Leech bubble you had going into the drain you can nearly take the entire thing. Huge huge help in 10 man to do this during the colorblind phase with 1 other person taking 2 stacks.

  6. #786
    I noticed a gain of 4k from Single target in SimC switching to 8097 haste with the legendary meta gem, something to look at if you have or are getting your gem soon, I didn't notice a single target gain with SimC and the 8097 breakpoint until I simmed myself with two PPM trinkets but it was very minimal then.
    Last edited by Kink; 2013-04-19 at 03:57 PM.

  7. #787
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    Speaking of Durumu, soak Life Drain with UR, Sac Pact and Twilight Ward. Depending on the size of the Soul Leech bubble you had going into the drain you can nearly take the entire thing. Huge huge help in 10 man to do this during the colorblind phase with 1 other person taking 2 stacks.

    Does the drain only restore health for effective damage then? Because I imagine thats a fair bit of helaing if you did take an entire phase if it heals the same regardless.

  8. #788
    High Overlord Dizzy2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wablakin View Post
    For quick bursts I go into meta, activate immo aura, carrion swarm on CD, and keep attacking the boss/main target, this is enough for e.g. Ball Lightnings on Lei Shen.



    E.g. the adds before DA is worth putting doom + corruption on if you're doing the AoE tactics, just do immo aura, carrion swarm(also interrupts) and spam Void Ray to keep Corruption rolling on all targets, dont forget double Felguard spin as well as imps to keep you in meta for a really long time.

    I use doom on e.g. the adds during DA just to get more fury/imps as they live rather long while the tanks drag them to the soak target. Other than that I can't really think of any adds that are spread out and can't be AoE/Void Ray'd.


    Sounds about right, not sure you have time to actually get ToC off as I haven't tried it myself but that sounds optimal.
    Thank you!! Another quick question about mastery and the opener: Should I wait for felstorm until I use DS if it lines up? Does DS buff the GoService pet, too? If yes, should I wait in the opener with GoService until I have 700 fury and start the burnphase with DS?

  9. #789
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    Right now simcraft is showing my best secondary stat being crit for demo. already my mastery imo is painfully low for the spec. Whats a good haste and mastery rating to hit at my gear level? http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Sohl/advanced this is my armory link. right now its reforged towards destruction.

  10. #790
    Quote Originally Posted by xuros View Post
    Right now simcraft is showing my best secondary stat being crit for demo. already my mastery imo is painfully low for the spec. Whats a good haste and mastery rating to hit at my gear level? http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Sohl/advanced this is my armory link. right now its reforged towards destruction.
    Bump your haste up to the 3036 haste breakpoint, replace that reckless gem with an artful (usually best to go for all of one thing and not mixed) and try to lower your hit closer to cap (you're 100+ over) then you should be good to go .

  11. #791
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeshmi View Post
    Does the drain only restore health for effective damage then? Because I imagine thats a fair bit of helaing if you did take an entire phase if it heals the same regardless.
    He only heals based on the amount of effective damage he deals.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 07:04 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by xuros View Post
    Right now simcraft is showing my best secondary stat being crit for demo. already my mastery imo is painfully low for the spec. Whats a good haste and mastery rating to hit at my gear level? http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Sohl/advanced this is my armory link. right now its reforged towards destruction.
    Before the Lei Shen trinket, Crit is > Mastery for pure single target dps which is what you're looking at in Simcraft. In Throne of Thunder, the only boss this holds true for is Iron Qon, and only by a small amount. Every other boss, there's a mechanic you can use Meta around to buff your Mastery value (Jin'rok, Ji'kun) or adds to cleave with your pet, with HoG or with Immolation Aura to buff your dps. If you're a casual raider, or you simply don't want to reforge for every fight just use the Haste(3036)>Mastery>Crit. It will serve you better on the majority of fights.

    I would also argue that Crit is >Mastery for Megeara, but you should be Destro for that fight on Normal. On Heroic, Mastery is better for bursting down Wyrms.

    Again, all of this is pre-UVLS. Once you have that Trinket, Crit dropped in value dramatically.

  12. #792
    Blademaster Prisefighter's Avatar
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    Ok Teye, with 8109 haste, Berserking, and Meta Gem procced my Imp Swarm CD is 1:03. Incredibly nice =D

  13. #793
    Quote Originally Posted by Wablakin View Post
    For quick bursts I go into meta, activate immo aura, carrion swarm on CD, and keep attacking the boss/main target, this is enough for e.g. Ball Lightnings on Lei Shen.
    Best way to handle Ball Lightning on Lei Shen is to go into Meta just before they spawn, pop Immo Aura, then as they spawn do 2x Chaos Waves, Carrion Swarm and Felstorm. BIG DEEPS.

  14. #794
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kink View Post
    Bump your haste up to the 3036 haste breakpoint, replace that reckless gem with an artful (usually best to go for all of one thing and not mixed) and try to lower your hit closer to cap (you're 100+ over) then you should be good to go .
    Thanks for the reply.

  15. #795
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    Chaos Wave? Sorry, but stick to Affliction.

    Double stack your HoG. It will do WAY more damage.
    Isn't that entirely dependent on how much dmg your raid members are doing to ball lightnings? I mean, if enough of them die before 6 seconds, chaos wave is way better. Also, dat immolation aura isn't ticking if you're using HoG.
    Last edited by Mazda; 2013-04-20 at 07:02 AM.

  16. #796
    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post
    Best way to handle Ball Lightning on Lei Shen is to go into Meta just before they spawn, pop Immo Aura, then as they spawn do 2x Chaos Waves, Carrion Swarm and Felstorm. BIG DEEPS.
    The real question is if dumping all that fury is worth it? Those balls die pretty fast even with a single HoG>meta, immo, carrion, void ray. I'd rather save the fury for boss dmg since the dps check isn't negligable. Although of course, you have a lot more experience with heroic lei shen than I do, so perhaps you can shed some light for me.

  17. #797
    Ball Lightning's need to die within about 5 seconds on heroic. Taking into account travel time, Hand of Gul'dan will barely tick on them at all, and you won't be doing any Immo Aura damage. Chaos wave is millions more damage.

    Same for the adds on Megaera.

    There aren't really any dps checks on Heroic Lei Shen other than killing the Ball Lightning adds fast enough, so yes, dumping all your fury into them is definitely worth it.
    Last edited by EvreliaGaming; 2013-04-20 at 12:44 PM.

  18. #798
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    The fury cost of Chaos Wave isn't as bad as it used to be anyways, 160 fury (plus 28-30 for not using HoG) for 2 chaos waves isn't going to change your single target by anything noticeable. Short duration AoE like ball lightning is exactly what Chaos Wave is there for.

    Megaera is different though, at least in my guild. We have a seamless AoE CC rotation and kind of slowly kill them off and only really AoE hard if more then 2 waves are up. But even with our strat it is kind of situational, if you have one wave at 15% and another at full health it will be better to chaos wave anyway becuase HoG takes too long to get effective damage into the 15% wave.

    But what evralia is saying is correct, any damage you may have lost by using Chaos Wave over HoG in short duration AoE your gaining by being able to have Immo Aura running. With our tier 15 bonuses + UVLS we are swimming with fury anyways.

    One thing that I have been experimenting with that could use some discussion is Harvest Life instead of Void Ray in AoE situations where you do not have corruptions out. It seems to me about 15-20% more DPS then Void Ray spam, and doesn't have retarded aiming mechanics. Also interestingly enough it seems that if you start a harvest life in meta and drop out it starts generating fury, but retains the Meta damage increase.

  19. #799
    Quote Originally Posted by zinnin View Post
    also interestingly enough it seems that if you start a harvest life in meta and drop out it starts generating fury, but retains the meta damage increase.
    shhhhhhhhh!

  20. #800
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    I'm curious about something, and I'm sure a few people here could test it. Running 8097 haste, how short is the Imp Swarm CD if you use it with the Meta Proc, Blood Lust, and Berserking?
    48 secs. Kinda dumb how long this has taken me to respond. Using Imp Swarm with 8097 haste, Meta Proc, Blood Lust, AND Berserking...48 sec CD.

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