1. #841
    Im confused about UvoLS. I know it changes my rotation when i get it but..how? I mean Say the trinket procs. That is more important than any buffs i have and i should refresh Doom IMMEDIATELY? Or should i refresh doom only if its Below 50% duration? Is it worth losing out on Pandemic?

    I mean what if i get a proc. Then Cast Doom. Then after 10 secs, i leave demon form. Get another proc. Do i then go demon form and cast Doom again even though Doom has only been ticking 10 secs? Or lets say i get a proc, cast doom and then get another proc straight away? Do i cast AGAIN or just leave it? Or can that not happen?

    I dont really understand, can someone help me understand what changes when we get UvoLS?

  2. #842
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    If there are 3 targets up, you put Corruption on them if they will be alive for longer than 14 seconds. Otherwise you Hellfire.
    If there are 4 targets up, you put Corruption on them if they will be alive for longer than 18 seconds. Otherwise you Hellfire.
    If there are 5 targets up, you put Corruption on them if they will be alive for longer than 22 seconds. Otherwise you Hellfire.
    Etc.
    2 Quick questions.

    Assuming there's 3 targets, and they will be alive for longer than 14, I apply corruption to all 3. But then, as I am still in caster form, I still end up Hellfiring, correct?

    Also, Volatile Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault, what's the best way to make use of it? Refresh Doom/Corruption when proc's up, or use that extra haste for Soul Fires (with Molten Core, obviously)?

    Thanks.

  3. #843
    Fluffy Kitten Zinnin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeCoco View Post
    Assuming there's 3 targets, and they will be alive for longer than 14, I apply corruption to all 3. But then, as I am still in caster form, I still end up Hellfiring, correct?
    Yes that is correct. The ones that are longer, 18+ seconds, means that you have to maintain them via Void Ray for that period of time before it will be a dps increase, but once they are up you just hellfire / HoG in caster form.

    In practice I would add some time to the numbers I posted just in case void ray misses and you have to get a refresh manually, but I think a lot of situations are pretty clearly long / short enough to figure out. This tier there really isn't much when it comes to long duration AoE.

  4. #844
    Quote Originally Posted by Felfire1 View Post
    Im confused about UvoLS. I know it changes my rotation when i get it but..how? I mean Say the trinket procs. That is more important than any buffs i have and i should refresh Doom IMMEDIATELY? Or should i refresh doom only if its Below 50% duration? Is it worth losing out on Pandemic?

    I mean what if i get a proc. Then Cast Doom. Then after 10 secs, i leave demon form. Get another proc. Do i then go demon form and cast Doom again even though Doom has only been ticking 10 secs? Or lets say i get a proc, cast doom and then get another proc straight away? Do i cast AGAIN or just leave it? Or can that not happen?

    I dont really understand, can someone help me understand what changes when we get UvoLS?
    Playing with the trinket shifts damadge to your imps and to abilities that cost fury (since the imps will give you more fury). It takes importance away from the actual damadge of the Doom ticks themselves.

    One thing has to be clear before you talk about refreshing crit Doom's and that is that the trinket can be an RNG bitch and easily not proc for 3 mins and then proc 3 times within a minute.

    What this means is that when the trinket procs you drop everything else and cast Doom twice (for max duration). If the trinket procs again you will want to do the same regardless of already having a crit Doom up, because afterwards you could go a long spell without it proccing.

    Now ofcourse if you got a max duration Doom up with all cd's/procs and then 10 seconds later the trinket procs but all your other procs/cd's have fallen off, you probably want to not refresh in order to get the extra damadge from the ticks. This is at the possible loss of 1 imp (the trinket could proc again and you have some crit chance of your own so you might not loose the imp afterall). But if say you have 1 or 2 ticks left of a crit/int/DS buffed Doom, it's going to be better to overwrite it with a fresh max duration crit Doom anyway.

    Basicly what I'm saying is that yes you want to nearly always cast Doom when your trinket procs. But there are a few niche situations where you wouldn't want to, you just have to use common sense for those and get some experience with the trinket to make the decision.

  5. #845
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I don't remember the exact number, but if you get the shadowflame breakpoint that's around 8k haste you'll get it.
    I tried so hard. Turns out Everlasting Affliction is in fact very, very good for a fight like council.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=12825&e=13229

    I think if the raid dps was a little higher, I would have beaten your #2 parse, Brusalk. Sadly, 3 hours and we didn't killed it.

  6. #846
    Quote Originally Posted by zinnin View Post
    Yes that is correct. The ones that are longer, 18+ seconds, means that you have to maintain them via Void Ray for that period of time before it will be a dps increase, but once they are up you just hellfire / HoG in caster form.

    In practice I would add some time to the numbers I posted just in case void ray misses and you have to get a refresh manually, but I think a lot of situations are pretty clearly long / short enough to figure out. This tier there really isn't much when it comes to long duration AoE.
    Thanks for the swift reply!

    So from what I'm understanding, generally when facing 2 targets, we apply the "Cleave" rotation. Touch of Chaos, Soul Fire, etc.
    And 3 targets already qualifies for "AoE", so Void Ray, Immolation/Hellfire, etc.

    For instance, the LFR version of the Stone Guards, when all 3 dogs are tanked together, I should be using the "AoE" priority?

  7. #847
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazda View Post
    I tried so hard. Turns out Everlasting Affliction is in fact very, very good for a fight like council.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=12825&e=13229

    I think if the raid dps was a little higher, I would have beaten your #2 parse, Brusalk. Sadly, 3 hours and we didn't killed it.
    I've yet to get good RNG on that fight. If I could keep even just 3 dooms up for the whole fight with 100% crit I could easily do 300k. Most of the time I'll get a proc at the very beginning and then end up with like a minute or two with no crit-buffed dooms because the trinket didn't want to proc. :/

  8. #848
    Blademaster Prisefighter's Avatar
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    I simmed my char on a Light Movement fight with 2 targets, trying to determine the best Grimoire talent to use. Showed roughly 124k using Sac, +10k Serv, +10k Sup. Can I take this at face value or am I missing something? I was under the impression that with UVoLS, Sac is the best option for multi target fights, and possibly even on single target fights. Regardless I thought the dps difference in the three was minimal, yet 10k differences per talent seems pretty substantial?

  9. #849
    My guild is currently working on Heroic Council atm. And unfortunately I don't have the Lei Shen trinket. Even without this trinket, would it still be a dps increase to run Everlasting Affliction Glyph? I haven't used it yet but thought about it for tonight's attempts. Pretty much all I have been doing is:

    - The burst opener macro onto Sul (w/ pet sticked on Sul) on pull
    - Go into Doom's on Malakk, Kaz, and Mar'li, instead of ToC/SF after macro opener is finished
    - Spend the remaining DS duration in Meta with Soul Fires on Sul
    - Stick Corruption on each boss after DS drops
    - Meta knockback for Loa Spirits along with Shadowfury stuns. I alternate with the paladin tank for stuns
    - Refresh Corruption/ Shadow Bolt/ MC Soulfire's while not in Meta

    We are doing a burn Sul strat. With this strat we have Sul tanked with Malakk and Mar'li is tanked away from then. Once Mar'li is Empowered she is brought into the other 2, with I believe it was 2-3 DPS focusing her and everyone else burning Sul with cleaves. So far we have only got Sul down once with most of the raid alive. Still have a few kinks to work in.

    I thought about running GoSac for this fight however not having the trinket and how our strat is atm, the cleave from the Felguard seems too much damage to swap out of. I did attempt a few pulls with GoSac and it wasn't great.


    Here are my logs from last night's attempts. This is our first night of going at Council.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...ses&boss=69078

    Here is my armory if you want to stab at it for more min/maxing for this fight. Just obtained my legendary meta too as well after raid last night.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...avoks/advanced

    I'm open to any form criticism, positive or negative. Whatever helps me improve my DPS is greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by Ravon; 2013-04-24 at 12:56 PM.

  10. #850
    Moderator Alarinth's Avatar
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    Hi.

    Just a question, how do you manage the crit-buffed dooms on council? I've several times had trouble remember which are which, and came to the idea that if a boss target frame could display wether or not the doom was crit buffed by displaying the icon of UVLS instead, that'd be a lifesaver.

    Anyone know an addon able to do this? SUF doesn't support it, and I want it to be tied to the boss target frame. It can probably be done in WA, but it'll take a lot of effort to get set up the right way.
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  11. #851
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravon View Post
    My guild is currently working on Heroic Council atm. And unfortunately I don't have the Lei Shen trinket. Even without this trinket, would it still be a dps increase to run Everlasting Affliction Glyph? I haven't used it yet but thought about it for tonight's attempts.
    Personally, I would say no. UVLS completely changes the way Doom is prioritized. The only reason Everlasting Affliction is good with UVLS and Doom is because it compensates for the uncertainty of UVLS proccing. Additionally, the Doom dmg is important, of course, but the most important part is the imps. If you aren't using GoSac, then imps aren't as large a % of your dps than UVLS users. If all you're doing is trying to have max-buffed Dooms with all your other procs, just double cast Doom on all 4 targets during major procs. IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by Alarinth View Post
    Hi.
    Just a question, how do you manage the crit-buffed dooms on council?
    Not the most elegant way, but I prioritize Mar'li last. That is, I get 3 crit-buffed Dooms out during UVLS every time, and it is never her if all 4 are alive. Then, the next time it procs I start my 3 Dooms on her, and extend the duration on 2 others. (Most of the time Frost King and Kaz).

    Once a single boss is dead, then it's really just "cast crit-buffed Dooms on all 3 targets every single time you proc". Doesn't really require tracking.


    Still, I'd be interested if you found a more elegant way to track it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I've yet to get good RNG on that fight. If I could keep even just 3 dooms up for the whole fight with 100% crit I could easily do 300k. Most of the time I'll get a proc at the very beginning and then end up with like a minute or two with no crit-buffed dooms because the trinket didn't want to proc. :/
    Yeah, those were frustrating pulls when that would happen. I won't have a better UVLS until thunderforged or valor upgrade, though. Speaking of which, how will the RPPM values change for UVLS once it is double upgraded?
    Last edited by Mazda; 2013-04-24 at 03:28 PM.

  12. #852
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravon View Post
    My guild is currently working on Heroic Council atm. And unfortunately I don't have the Lei Shen trinket. Even without this trinket, would it still be a dps increase to run Everlasting Affliction Glyph?
    I'm pretty sure it's a DPS loss to use Everlasting Affliction glyph without UVLS.

    Everlasting affliction glyph works cause it shifts the damage from Doom to the Imps it spawns with the UVLS trinket, and EA glyph lets you lenghten the Dooms enough to make sure you have more ticks and thus more imps (and also makes sure the dot runs till you can get a new proc).

    With no UVLS all you do is weaken your Doom and your Corruption for a minor benefit in being able to keep your dots up easier.

    I'm not good enough at math to prove it, but others have done so before. EA glyph has always been a DPS loss before we got the trinket, and I doubt that has changed.
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  13. #853
    Oh yeah I knew it was a DPS before just wanted to clRify if it was still viable without the trinket. Same thing for me not using the GoSac build. with the constant cleaving, the Felguard+ GoServ is great. Thanks for the quick responses.

    Just another small question. Is it a bigger DPS loss if I hellfire while having all Corruptions active with Dooms on the boss? Only time I tried was during the first 2 Loa Spirit spawns. Since my hellfire woul hit all 4 bosses and the spirit. Any chance just following the single spell fillers would be better than hellfiring?

  14. #854
    Hello. If afli and destro dont gain much from 4 tier set bonus. What about demo. Should I go for 4 set bonus? Seems a lot better then the bonus for the 2 other specs

  15. #855
    Quote Originally Posted by pufyanny View Post
    Hello. If afli and destro dont gain much from 4 tier set bonus. What about demo. Should I go for 4 set bonus? Seems a lot better then the bonus for the 2 other specs
    I believe the consensus is if you have UVLS (which it looks like you do) then it's worth it because of you being in meta until it's off cooldown, the extra fury gen will help; but until then I'm not totally sure if it's worth it.

  16. #856
    Has anyone felt their damage being worse now as compared to before the server reset? My DPS feels somewhat weaker now.

  17. #857
    Replaced Volatile Talisman with Breath of the Hydra normal, finally. Also finally got my 20th Secret of the Empire and did the quest to get the Meta last night. Went up to 12k haste with full Haste gems. Saw massive increases to my DPS, including my burst going from 280k to over 400k. I'm shocked at how well this worked.


    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Teye/advanced
    Last edited by Teye; 2013-04-24 at 09:09 PM.

  18. #858
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    Replaced Volatile Talisman with Breath of the Hydra normal, finally. Also finally got my 20th Secret of the Empire and did the quest to get the Meta last night. Went up to 12k haste with full Haste gems. Saw massive increases to my DPS, including my burst going from 280k to over 400k. I'm shocked at how well this worked.


    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Teye/advanced
    Sorry, I am just going demo after getting LFR Lei-Shen trinket. Is it better to gem all haste for the increase chance for the trinket to proc? Also is Everlasting Affliction worth it for single target with UVLS so you can have 100% crit dooms up constantly?
    Last edited by Twilight Cultist; 2013-04-24 at 09:17 PM.

  19. #859
    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight Cultist View Post
    Sorry, I am just going demo after getting LFR Lei-Shen trinket. Is it better to gem all haste for the increase chance for the trinket to proc? Also is Everlasting Affliction worth it for single target with UVLS so you can have 100% crit dooms up constantly?
    Once you have 2 RPPM trinkets (Breath+UVLS or Ya+UVLS) and the Meta Gem, I'm 99% sure its worth it to go pure Haste. Personally, I use Everlasting Affliction on Horridon, Council, Tortos, Meg, Jikun. Everything other than that, I don't find it to be worth it.

  20. #860
    Quote Originally Posted by Prisefighter View Post
    I simmed my char on a Light Movement fight with 2 targets, trying to determine the best Grimoire talent to use. Showed roughly 124k using Sac, +10k Serv, +10k Sup. Can I take this at face value or am I missing something? I was under the impression that with UVoLS, Sac is the best option for multi target fights, and possibly even on single target fights. Regardless I thought the dps difference in the three was minimal, yet 10k differences per talent seems pretty substantial?
    I don't really understand why people are going sac for demo other than council. Just looking at my own logs, the benefit of +30% dmg on sb, toc, sf, hog, and imps is pretty much never above the dps of having pets. In addition, you won't get the fury gen of your pet which adds to a lot throughout a fight.

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