1. #1761
    High Overlord lydude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    I still see go service being stronger than gosac in almost every situation outside of council. (I also use it on ra den for more orb burst) Run sims yourself to be sure but I'm at 548 and service is still ahead for me in both sims and practice. Places where I might use sac: ji kun (pets and that fight are no bueno), council, raden (for orbs w/o having to go destro). I also run herbalism/engineering so I'm setup for burst dumps on a 2 minute clock.

    At 527 you probably want to aim for 8100 haste > mastery vs pure haste. Some people say never go higher in haste and just stack mastery and some like playing the max haste build but you need to be 14K-15K haste for that to work. Ultimately it comes down to playstyle, both work. Just at lower ilvl your stat budget will likely do best around the earlier breakpoint.

    If you run sims make sure its a recent version, I believe we are on 530-5 version presently.
    Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. Right now I'm reforged to 8100 Haste and the rest into Mastery like you said. I'm also gemming for Mastery and going for socket bonuses. I have my LMG and 4 set bonus.

    I played Demo a bit at the start of 5.3, but now that I have UVLS things are way different. What is the standard opener for a demo lock with UVLS? What I heard was: Pre-pot - Grimoire: Felguard - HoG - Corruption - Imp Swarm - Dark Soul/Synapse - Meta - HoG - *hope for UVLS proc* Doom - Doom - Touch of Chaos until DS runs out. Is that correct? Gonna be raiding heroics for the first time tomorrow as demo with UVLS so I'm trying to get some stuff straightened out in a short amount of time.

  2. #1762
    Ok, we are 10/13 Hc (yeah I know, we are not top notch ) and it is time for the last obstacle before Lei Shen. Aka Dark Animus. I read what others said some posts above and I will ask some things.

    1. I read demo is adequate. Affliction is equally good? Better? Worse? Or it is just a matter of what I play best? What about destro?

    2. The bulk of our tries will be tonight, but for the few 5-6 tries I saw that Soul Link and full Soul Leech shield was not enough for Matter Swap. Unless I died from something else.

    3. The pet takes too much damage (I have it on a nearby add to tank it). Is it normal for the healers to heal it, right?

    4. Any specific talent I should consider?

    Thanks!
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  3. #1763
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayaleith View Post
    Ok, we are 10/13 Hc (yeah I know, we are not top notch ) and it is time for the last obstacle before Lei Shen. Aka Dark Animus. I read what others said some posts above and I will ask some things.

    1. I read demo is adequate. Affliction is equally good? Better? Worse? Or it is just a matter of what I play best? What about destro?

    2. The bulk of our tries will be tonight, but for the few 5-6 tries I saw that Soul Link and full Soul Leech shield was not enough for Matter Swap. Unless I died from something else.

    3. The pet takes too much damage (I have it on a nearby add to tank it). Is it normal for the healers to heal it, right?

    4. Any specific talent I should consider?

    Thanks!
    1. All speccs are fine for DA, personally i play demo because i can burn down my add really fast and with both Massive Golems and crit Dooms, the damage on DA is great. Kinda depends on your strategy and whether you play 25 oder 10 man.

    2. I doubt that, with item level 545 i have a 850k'ish health pool (890k'ish with demon training glyph), which is more than enough to soak any non-tank (who are the only ones who get the MS debuff) with a similar item level. I never take more than 620k damage from MS, so 850k + double Soul Leech + absorbs from healers are enough to soak MS + Jolt. Just to make sure, did you activate your Soul Link (it's not enough to just pick the talent)?

    3. Your demon shouldn't tank an Anima Golem with Soul Link up, especially if you are tanking another one yourself. I actually don't see why your demon should tank a Golem in the first place. If it is really necessary for you to tank with your demon, you should activate your SL after the add is down and you are fine to soak MS. I guess you're playing 10 man. Your tanks can (and definitely should) take 2 or 3 adds for massive vengeance from the start. No need to have any pets tanking stuff.

    4. Soul Leech, Mortal Coil, Soul Link and you're good to go. Have Demon Training glyphed if you're Demo and your healers have problems to keep you alive.

  4. #1764
    First of all thanks for answering.

    No we are 25 man. I am at 536 ilvl, I have about 620K. How the f@#$ do you reach 800K with no sacrifice? :O Anyway...

    - I guess my pet is assigned to tank one because this is our strategy.

    - Yes I have SL active while my pet tanks. I will try activating it after we kill its add. The think is though that I might get the swap BEFORE my pet's target is dead (it is last in queue)

    - I will try Demon training glyph. thanks for the tip.
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  5. #1765
    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    I still see go service being stronger than gosac in almost every situation outside of council. (I also use it on ra den for more orb burst) Run sims yourself to be sure but I'm at 548 and service is still ahead for me in both sims and practice. Places where I might use sac: ji kun (pets and that fight are no bueno), council, raden (for orbs w/o having to go destro). I also run herbalism/engineering so I'm setup for burst dumps on a 2 minute clock.

    At 527 you probably want to aim for 8100 haste > mastery vs pure haste. Some people say never go higher in haste and just stack mastery and some like playing the max haste build but you need to be 14K-15K haste for that to work. Ultimately it comes down to playstyle, both work. Just at lower ilvl your stat budget will likely do best around the earlier breakpoint.

    If you run sims make sure its a recent version, I believe we are on 530-5 version presently.
    I don't know if you raid 10 or 25 (or if it even makes a difference) but most of the top Meg/Qon/Twins 10H parses are using Sac over Serv. Does this mean it only takes 2 targets for Sac to surpass Serv or is there something else going on?

  6. #1766
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayaleith View Post
    First of all thanks for answering.

    No we are 25 man. I am at 536 ilvl, I have about 620K. How the f@#$ do you reach 800K with no sacrifice? :O Anyway...

    - I guess my pet is assigned to tank one because this is our strategy.

    - Yes I have SL active while my pet tanks. I will try activating it after we kill its add. The think is though that I might get the swap BEFORE my pet's target is dead (it is last in queue)

    - I will try Demon training glyph. thanks for the tip.
    The HP of your demon is added to your health pool because dmg and healing are split between you and your demon. 656k myself + 193k unglyphed Felguard equals ~850k. If you really want to soak MS, you have to get rid of your add as fast as possible. You can't afford to tank an additional add with your demon, leave it to a hunter, tank or whoever can take care of it. You can't have it both, tanking an add while soaking MS with SL just won't work. You have to choose between both options. Time to convince your RL (or yourself if you are RL) to change strategy Warlocks soaking MS makes life so much easier on DA.
    Last edited by mmocff0de3da04; 2013-07-16 at 09:58 AM.

  7. #1767
    Or use SL while having your Supremacy Void Lord with Demon Training tank the add - then you can do as many matter swaps as you want, since your hp will barely take a dent from the Void Lord. I did this myself, and at most during progression, I was taking on average 2 matter swaps every 20th second in addition to tanking the add (in extreme cases 3, and then I needed defensives, but never did I die from it).

    I see no problem in using Void Lord + SL for the sake of safety, then swapping to the Felguard. IMO that is by far the safest way of doing it, and the dps loss of manually changing demon is by far outweighed by the fact that nothing will be able to kill your demon and you won't die from any amount of matter swaps even in quick succession.
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  8. #1768
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRidi View Post
    1. All speccs are fine for DA, personally i play demo because i can burn down my add really fast and with both Massive Golems and crit Dooms, the damage on DA is great. Kinda depends on your strategy and whether you play 25 oder 10 man.

    2. I doubt that, with item level 545 i have a 850k'ish health pool (890k'ish with demon training glyph), which is more than enough to soak any non-tank (who are the only ones who get the MS debuff) with a similar item level. I never take more than 620k damage from MS, so 850k + double Soul Leech + absorbs from healers are enough to soak MS + Jolt. Just to make sure, did you activate your Soul Link (it's not enough to just pick the talent)?

    3. Your demon shouldn't tank an Anima Golem with Soul Link up, especially if you are tanking another one yourself. I actually don't see why your demon should tank a Golem in the first place. If it is really necessary for you to tank with your demon, you should activate your SL after the add is down and you are fine to soak MS. I guess you're playing 10 man. Your tanks can (and definitely should) take 2 or 3 adds for massive vengeance from the start. No need to have any pets tanking stuff.

    4. Soul Leech, Mortal Coil, Soul Link and you're good to go. Have Demon Training glyphed if you're Demo and your healers have problems to keep you alive.

    to the original question, you can play whatever spec you want on Dark Animus, everyone outgears it now that all you have to do is do the fight mechanics correctly.

    In 25 man it is needed for your Voidlord to tank a minion aswell, and keeping soul link on with Demon training glyph is fine, you really take no damage in p1 Unless you are so bad that you stand in Anima fonts, in which case you should just quit your guild to help them progress faster.

    On the Soul Link V Sac Pact, IMo Soul Link is just way better, sometimes Jolt lines up badly with Matterswap and matter swaps happen way too frequently to have Sac Pact for them, Soul link is just plain better and it makes you very very hard to kill.

    I usually go afflic with Soul link and have void lord tank one, once my void lords minion is killed and soaked, I just summon an observer, but make sure you keep Soul link on, Having soul link up the whole fights is what makes us so awesome to take Matter swaps ( assuming you also have soul leech, which you should :P)
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  9. #1769
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Alarinth View Post
    Or use SL while having your Supremacy Void Lord with Demon Training tank the add - then you can do as many matter swaps as you want, since your hp will barely take a dent from the Void Lord. I did this myself, and at most during progression, I was taking on average 2 matter swaps every 20th second in addition to tanking the add (in extreme cases 3, and then I needed defensives, but never did I die from it).

    I see no problem in using Void Lord + SL for the sake of safety, then swapping to the Felguard. IMO that is by far the safest way of doing it, and the dps loss of manually changing demon is by far outweighed by the fact that nothing will be able to kill your demon and you won't die from any amount of matter swaps even in quick succession.
    I'm a 10 man raider so i didn't know anything about the need of additonal golem tanking. So forget what i wrote about it.

  10. #1770
    I see so many locks with around 10800-10900 haste but I can't find a haste breakpoint for that amount am I missing something obvious?

  11. #1771
    Quote Originally Posted by Opeth69 View Post
    I see so many locks with around 10800-10900 haste but I can't find a haste breakpoint for that amount am I missing something obvious?
    They just have too much haste on their gear that cannot be reforged away, myself has 10.6k haste when I push mastery too.

  12. #1772
    Quote Originally Posted by Opeth69 View Post
    I see so many locks with around 10800-10900 haste but I can't find a haste breakpoint for that amount am I missing something obvious?
    10100 is a breakpoint for Aff or Destro, but I don't remember what spell it was for. Demo should only be aiming for 8100 because the next one is super high. They might just be reforging to make it easier to play their OS without spending gold each time.

  13. #1773
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    Just quick inquiry about an item choice. I currently have the 2 piece t15 (LFR shoulders and normal pants), and just got a mastery-hit shoulder piece from the heroic scenario. Basically, the question is: does the 2 t15 piece outweigh the stat gain between a 502 ilvl and a 516 ilvl with better itemization?

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  14. #1774
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Saferis View Post
    Just quick inquiry about an item choice. I currently have the 2 piece t15 (LFR shoulders and normal pants), and just got a mastery-hit shoulder piece from the heroic scenario. Basically, the question is: does the 2 t15 piece outweigh the stat gain between a 502 ilvl and a 516 ilvl with better itemization?

    Armory link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Excerpt/simple
    Nope, 2pc T15 is really. really good for Demo.

  15. #1775
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRidi View Post
    Nope, 2pc T15 is really. really good for Demo.
    It's not "really really good", it's mediocre. If you're able to snag every 541 HTF piece with the "optimal (see: haste central)" stats going a no-tier route is just as good/better.

  16. #1776
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woz View Post
    It's not "really really good", it's mediocre. If you're able to snag every 541 HTF piece with the "optimal (see: haste central)" stats going a no-tier route is just as good/better.
    That is maybe right for BiS Gear. But the guy who asked about it is at item level 499 and is playing without UVLS. Given that fury generation is an issue in his case, that 2pc T15 is huge for him.

  17. #1777
    The Patient HeaddsDead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opeth69 View Post
    I see so many locks with around 10800-10900 haste but I can't find a haste breakpoint for that amount am I missing something obvious?
    the next breakpoint is 14875(or 35% haste) which cant really be reach till 542 ilvl but its a pretty nice break point and i have seen a decent increase in dps/dmg since switching to it from the 8100

  18. #1778
    Quote Originally Posted by Woz View Post
    It's not "really really good", it's mediocre. If you're able to snag every 541 HTF piece with the "optimal (see: haste central)" stats going a no-tier route is just as good/better.
    2 Piece is great, and will be even better next tier when we get Archimondes Darknesss. I agree the 4 set is garbage for all 3 specs and I cant wait to replace mine with some HC TF off pieces =/.
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  19. #1779
    Quote Originally Posted by InsertStrangeNameHere View Post
    the next breakpoint is 14875(or 35% haste) which cant really be reach till 542 ilvl but its a pretty nice break point and i have seen a decent increase in dps/dmg since switching to it from the 8100
    From what I've seen (and played), Demonology can be played so many different ways. We originally had 3 warlocks in my 25 man guild (including me) that were all playing demonology but with a different type of style for each character.
    (We were all roughly geared about the same....about 3 ilvls within each others range)

    One of us had the 8100 haste breakpoint and put the rest in mastery (roughly 14k) so that he could switch to affliction easily with a simple reforge.
    One of us went for an 11k haste breakpoint and put the rest into mastery (roughly 12k) [I don't know his reasoning behind this].
    And I went full haste (as of right now I have 16k haste and around 6k mastery)

    As it turns out, we all do ABOUT the same damage. It simply depends on which fight we are doing to see who manages to pull ahead.

  20. #1780
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondeye View Post
    As it turns out, we all do ABOUT the same damage. It simply depends on which fight we are doing to see who manages to pull ahead.
    Indeed, The past dozen or so pages and my own fiddling around with reforges these past few weeks have also shown that haste vs mastery for the most part is a personal preference on play style. Only in lei shen heroic (which I haven't seen yet) does full mastery seem required, and that's more so the case for 25 mans afaik.

    In the end it's up to the RNG gods how much you'll be able to push your dps. I had an attempt on jikun hc zerg strat with a pug where I had 9 UVLS procs in about 3 minutes, the next attempt when we killed it I had 2. I do enjoy playing with Sac for the most part, and thus I run with a haste heavy setup to boost this, as well as personally preferring to be swimming in fury so I don't run into situations where I dump too much during meta cd and don't have enough to pop back in during a proc.

    The trinket will decide how much dps you do more than a change in your reforges.

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