1. #1041
    Quote Originally Posted by Alarinth View Post
    A few questions regarding massive amounts of haste here..

    I recently race changed to Troll, and that means I get the Berserking racial (+20% haste)... And, with the Legendary Meta that's another 30%, and with bloodlust we're talking an added 80% haste.
    With the Shado Pan trinket comes 8800 haste, and with herbalism comes nearly 3k haste.

    Currently I have engineering and Tailoring, and if I'm swapping out one of the two it'll damagewise be engineering. I'm just not clear on what effect Herbalism has, or why it's in the BiS profile. I realize 20 seconds of 3k added haste is a lot, but I cannot see it's value compared to the same % uptime of 1920 intellect. Is it not worth the hassle unless it pushes me above a doom breakpoint during bloodlust? that's the only logical explanation I can see yet.
    Given secondaries gain more and more stat weight as ilevel increases towards the best in slot, that would require a stat weighting in Simcraft like:

    Int - 4
    Haste - 2.57

    In order for the herbalism buff to be bigger than the int. I don't see that as such a stretch. Especially if you get over a breakpoint by doing that during the pull with lust and meta gem (which I haven't looked at yet).

  2. #1042
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    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post
    I don't recall the Mastery snapshotting doing anything to make the rotation more complicated (besides 1 button to swap sets). Just means a couple more of the buttons are pushed before you enter combat. I would say the rotations were both equally complicated (although I did much prefer the old style of Demonology play), pet twisting and all.
    I miss pet twisting and the old play also, the only thing I don't miss is delaying my Meta cd for MWC.

  3. #1043
    Quote Originally Posted by Alarinth View Post
    A few questions regarding massive amounts of haste here..

    I recently race changed to Troll, and that means I get the Berserking racial (+20% haste)... And, with the Legendary Meta that's another 30%, and with bloodlust we're talking an added 80% haste.
    With the Shado Pan trinket comes 8800 haste, and with herbalism comes nearly 3k haste.
    You don't add haste haste percentages like that, it's multiplicative which means you get 1.20*1.30*1.3(= 2.03) haste from berserking, meta and lust. Then you multiply that with your haste, lets say you have 25% haste, 1.25*2.03-1 = 1.5375 = 153.75% haste. Not 25% + 20% + 30% + 30% = 105%.

  4. #1044
    Moderator Alarinth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by esatikkane View Post
    You don't add haste haste percentages like that, it's multiplicative which means you get 1.20*1.30*1.3(= 2.03) haste from berserking, meta and lust. Then you multiply that with your haste, lets say you have 25% haste, 1.25*2.03-1 = 1.5375 = 153.75% haste. Not 25% + 20% + 30% + 30% = 105%.
    Yeah, getting late here, you're right. However right you are, that's not my main point of question - thanks for correcting though, I guess.
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  5. #1045
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    How is simcraft "telling you to gem pure haste and go for haste"?

    Are you simming once, and looking at stat weights and taking them as gospel for all stat combinations?


    The correct way to do it, if you're interested it, is to use reforge plots where it plots DPS versus sacrificing X stat and gaining Y of another stat.
    Well im getting the numbers from simcraft then putting them into Ask Mr Robot. Simcraft put my haste at like 4.38 and int at like 4.11 >.< So Ask Mr Robot told me to gem pure haste

  6. #1046
    Quote Originally Posted by Felfire1 View Post
    Well im getting the numbers from simcraft then putting them into Ask Mr Robot. Simcraft put my haste at like 4.38 and int at like 4.11 >.< So Ask Mr Robot told me to gem pure haste
    Ask Mr Robot is a horribly inaccurate tool, not to mention the fact that Stat Weights are not meant to be used for reforging. Also, there's no way Simcraft put your haste at 4.38.
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  7. #1047
    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post
    Ask Mr Robot is a horribly inaccurate tool, not to mention the fact that Stat Weights are not meant to be used for reforging. Also, there's no way Simcraft put your haste at 4.38.
    Thing is, it did. I was like "What the actual f***" myself but decided to trust it >.< Right now im running Mastery + Int gems in my yellow sockets and Reforging for crit > Mastery. When i get UvoLS then ill gem Haste + Int probably with Haste > Mastery reforges. Is that correct?

  8. #1048
    What Simcraft build are you using

  9. #1049
    The way you see big gains from the herbalism thing is during darksoul + lifeblood + xxx buffs. I'm still not sold on it for demo since you are going to be using ToC moreso than soulfire during darksoul. However stacking lifeblood + troll racial + metagem + xxx can give you sub 60 sec imp swarm cycles.

    Please don't use askmrrobot for anything other than being lazy at math to reforge to hitcap...and even then just do your own math. As for simC I belive 520-10 is out.

  10. #1050
    I am ilvl 512, I have 4set, LFR UVLS and CHA YE'S.... what build would be better for me, haste>mastery>crit or mastery>haste>crit or crit>haste>mastery?????

  11. #1051
    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    Please don't use askmrrobot for anything other than being lazy at math to reforge to hitcap...and even then just do your own math. As for simC I belive 520-10 is out.
    I use reforge lite addon, I suppose it works the same way as askmrrobot. I find it very good to save gold/time to reforge to certain caps you want to reach (hit as well as haste). I do focus more on mastery than crit, but sometimes it reforge from mastery to hit/haste just to get as close to cap as possible. I suppose it's better than to having more hit than needed, since it's a dead stat after cap.

    Just curious, I'm not too good at math though, how do you calculate it?
    Last edited by Ahalek; 2013-05-08 at 03:25 AM.

  12. #1052
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alarinth View Post
    A few questions regarding massive amounts of haste here..

    I recently race changed to Troll, and that means I get the Berserking racial (+20% haste)... And, with the Legendary Meta that's another 30%, and with bloodlust we're talking an added 80% haste.
    With the Shado Pan trinket comes 8800 haste, and with herbalism comes nearly 3k haste.

    Currently I have engineering and Tailoring, and if I'm swapping out one of the two it'll damagewise be engineering. I'm just not clear on what effect Herbalism has, or why it's in the BiS profile. I realize 20 seconds of 3k added haste is a lot, but I cannot see it's value compared to the same % uptime of 1920 intellect. Is it not worth the hassle unless it pushes me above a doom breakpoint during bloodlust? that's the only logical explanation I can see yet.
    only thing i can think of is the massive reduction to imp swarm

  13. #1053
    Quote Originally Posted by Viggers View Post
    only thing i can think of is the massive reduction to imp swarm
    And very fast doom ticks on the opener doom! With my 8189 haste i got like tick every 5.9sec with lust+meta gem+berserking and it ticks like 250k(43k dps first 135secs from the doom itself!!). If you stack haste and have shado-pan trinket + herbalism, you will get very fast doom ticks and lots of imps! And for more haste you can use http://www.wowhead.com/item=86125 instead of prepot!
    Last edited by esatikkane; 2013-05-08 at 10:54 AM.

  14. #1054
    Moderator Alarinth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by esatikkane View Post
    And for more haste you can use http://www.wowhead.com/item=86125 instead of prepot!
    That tip was golden. I saw your post, camped the site 2 hours straight and now got the item! So thanks a bunch. Ace timing as well, starting progress on council heroic tomorrow...
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  15. #1055
    Does anybody know if simcraft is still using 30% sacrifice when it has always been 25%? (tooltip error on live)

    Guess the 5% would make quite a difference when you sim 8 target aoe with or without pet. (simcraft does without for max dps)

  16. #1056
    Just started to level my lock as Demo. It's a blast!

    One question though. When single targeting bosses while using Metamorphosis, do I just rinse and repeat the same rotation as if I was not using it?

    Just bored at work killing time.
    Thanks guys.

  17. #1057
    Well Kafa Press seems kinda overkill especially traded at a 1:1 ratio with int. I'm already GCD capped by miles in the opener.

  18. #1058
    Quote Originally Posted by Tramzh View Post
    Well Kafa Press seems kinda overkill especially traded at a 1:1 ratio with int. I'm already GCD capped by miles in the opener.
    The only way its worth it is if its pushing you that tiny bit extra for an 12th tick. (I haven't done the math, but I'm sure we're close to a 12th tick if not past it.)

  19. #1059
    12th tick with everything up(metagem/BL/serking), is at 17382 haste rating, or 13382 with Kafa Press.

    This is purely speculation, and damage values are from my gear level. For that 12th tick of doom, you are getting 2 extra ticks of crit doom (assuming everlasting affliction) ticking for ~250k + 2 imps, which do on average about 350k damage each. This would be about 1.2 million extra damage, just from that haste pot. Of course, you lose a lot of burst damage from not using an intellect pot at the start, and the haste pot doesnt really benefit your spell casting times since you're usually GCD capped anyways if you're haste stacking. Not sure if it's worth it.

    The calculations I posted a couple of weeks ago were incorrect, so I apologize. The correct haste rating for 11 ticks with Meta/BL/serking is 12391 haste.
    Last edited by Xyronic; 2013-05-09 at 07:29 AM.

  20. #1060
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyronic View Post
    12th tick with everything up(metagem/BL/serking), is at 17382 haste rating, or 13382 with Kafa Press.

    This is purely speculation, and damage values are from my gear level. For that 12th tick of doom, you are getting 2 extra ticks of crit doom (assuming everlasting affliction) ticking for ~250k + 2 imps, which do on average about 350k damage each. This would be about 1.2 million extra damage, just from that haste pot. Of course, you lose a lot of burst damage from not using an intellect pot at the start, and the haste pot doesnt really benefit your spell casting times since you're usually GCD capped anyways if you're haste stacking. Not sure if it's worth it.

    The calculations I posted a couple of weeks ago were incorrect, so I apologize. The correct haste rating for 11 ticks with Meta/BL/serking is 12391 haste.
    also need to take into account how much damage is gained by 4000 haste worth of imp swarm cd reduction?

    still not convinced it would be worth it.

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