[5.4] Demonology Warlock Guide

[Tramzh]

Are there any more exact trinket combo calculations other than those Zinnin got on the first page of this thread? They don't seem to be fully accurate and they are not shown paired together. I've seen a few of those on icyveins but I don't know if they are reliable.

[Alarinth]

Are there any more exact trinket combo calculations other than those Zinnin got on the first page of this thread? They don't seem to be fully accurate and they are not shown paired together. I've seen a few of those on icyveins but I don't know if they are reliable.

The ones on Zinnin's guide are more meant to be taken as a rough guideline. Your gear will make a significant impact on the value of the certain trinkets (being haste stacked or not, having UVLS or not, playing sac/serv/sup), as will their ilvl and your playstyle. Short answer is just sim it, and apply that data to your own tests to determine the best combination.

[kaamila]

i got trinkets(breath of the hydra/lei shen) finally and 4p and decided to give demo a try. i havent played it in a bit so im getting used to where my binds are but a question for when lei shen trinket procs after i already have a fully crit doom up.

do i refresh it even if it still has alot of time left?
do i doom everything else i can with it?(assume this)

also another question. with 2p i only use soulfire in meta when i have darksoul up or 20%?
do i still use it outside of meta or just pool them?

[Gremory1]

i got trinkets(breath of the hydra/lei shen) finally and 4p and decided to give demo a try. i havent played it in a bit so im getting used to where my binds are but a question for when lei shen trinket procs after i already have a fully crit doom up.

do i refresh it even if it still has alot of time left?
do i doom everything else i can with it?(assume this)

also another question. with 2p i only use soulfire in meta when i have darksoul up or 20%?
do i still use it outside of meta or just pool them?

What you do will depend on how long exactly is remaining on your current doom, as well as how long the additional targets you're describing will last. With EA glyph you're going to have a max Doom duration of 2 minutes 15 seconds. If it still has 1 minute 45 seconds left and the reapply of Doom would be weaker, then I'd say you're probably safe to wait for the next proc to update. If there are adds that are going to live at least 15 seconds then the extra 3 imps you'll get from putting Doom on them all is likely worth it. It's a moving target, however, and making sure you have Affdots and a way to see how long exactly is remaining on your dot will be useful.

[Betrayerx]

I thought only the middle Shadow Bolt from the Glyph had a chance to proc trinkets? Or has someone actually sat down and tested enough to provide some kind of proof to the contrary?


Doesn't sitting out Meta in DS waste a bunch of your Trinket/Legendary proc uptime if you don't have the MC procs? Still trying to work out if/when/whether letting one effectively cancel out/reduce the effectiveness of the other is a good idea.

Many questions and assumptions, let myself get out of the loop from lack of care and raiding for the past few months :3

I don't know how long it's been since you've played but currently with 2pt15 you can spam ToC and get 2 Dooms up in the opener without dropping out of meta. How long have you been away?

[Jessicka]

I don't know how long it's been since you've played but currently with 2pt15 you can spam ToC and get 2 Dooms up in the opener without dropping out of meta. How long have you been away?

I can get plenty of ToCs, Dooms, Imps, Soul Fires up in the opener; however while I'm using the Shado Pan trinket, it's only Doom and Soul Fire which are benefitting from the proc (maybe Imps if we get Hero too), so I'm worried much of the up time spent using ToC is in effect waste of stats on the trinket. Worry more that once I get the Legendary Meta that I'll lose out even more (5 ToCs and that's half the proc gone to nothing). Am I overthinking how much of a big deal it is watching it go to waste?

[Betrayerx]

I can get plenty of ToCs, Dooms, Imps, Soul Fires up in the opener; however while I'm using the Shado Pan trinket, it's only Doom and Soul Fire which are benefitting from the proc (maybe Imps if we get Hero too), so I'm worried much of the up time spent using ToC is in effect waste of stats on the trinket. Worry more that once I get the Legendary Meta that I'll lose out even more (5 ToCs and that's half the proc gone to nothing). Am I overthinking how much of a big deal it is watching it go to waste?

I didn't armory you until just now but when you get Unerring you'll have to alter the way you play Demo because it's a complete play style change to take full advantage of the trinket.

You've been away far too long Basically any haste procs on the opener are there to lower the cd on your imp swarm, not to be used on tossing bolts. With the Sparkuggz opener you blow coolers that will not proc trinkets to set up your burst, so for instance he blows Service and DG then pops Corruption and HoG. From my experiences Lei Shen will proc on the first HoG 90% of the time and then you go right into meta and blow DS to doom twice and at this point you should have legendary meta/Shado-pan drink/Lust up and then if you are a troll you pop Berserking and then Imp Swarm or macro them together (make sure berserking is first in the macro) and you will get something like a 45 second cd on imp swarm. Using the Spark opener I stay in meta the full time with DS up, get the first imp swarm powered with DS and lower the cd to under a minute with haste procs, and have about 6-7 MC procs to burn when I go out of meta after DS is over. Then I spam SF till I'm at about 2 MC's, HoG once, blow the last 2 MC's, then Meta weave the last HoG and do a second fury dump.

What I've been getting asked about by other locks on my server is if it is worth it to hold onto Imp Swarm for a certain amount of time in the hopes you're meta gem will proc for the cd. Generally I will hold off on popping IS if I see DS/Berserking is within 10-15 seconds of coming off CD when Imp Swarm comes up but I never wait on the meta gem because its too random. If it pops while I'm waiting on DS/Berserking that's cool but if it doesn't then it's not a huge deal.

[Jessicka]

5.1 was about the time I stopped because my guild folded, took about a month out from raiding, tried to get back in but I'd missed too much to catch up (go go valor upgrades, most retarded addition to the game, not breaking gear scaling at all), gave up again until 5.2 when friends asked me to join them a couple of nights a week here. So yeah, has been a while since I paid proper attention to things. Starting to enjoy things again though, so feel like putting some effort in.

My luck with trinkets is pretty legendary, I went almost the entirety of Wrath using Embrace of the Spider, and much of Cata with the DMC, in both cases replaced by heroic final tier trinkets... Forgive me for not counting on UVLS. Even so, doesn't really answer my question which is what buff takes prio in regards to stance, DS or legendary meta/trinket proc? Annoying to drop meta and get a chain of MC procs, similarly annoying to keep it up and watch it tick away without throwing a single Soul Fire...

I'd love to replace the trinket, and am glad it is an option in theory. Feels less good to want to opt out of using a legendary.

[Betrayerx]

My luck with trinkets is pretty legendary, I went almost the entirety of Wrath using Embrace of the Spider, and much of Cata with the DMC, in both cases replaced by heroic final tier trinkets... Forgive me for not counting on UVLS. Even so, doesn't really answer my question which is what buff takes prio in regards to stance, DS or legendary meta/trinket proc? Annoying to drop meta and get a chain of MC procs, similarly annoying to keep it up and watch it tick away without throwing a single Soul Fire...

I'd love to replace the trinket, and am glad it is an option in theory. Feels less good to want to opt out of using a legendary.

I know you probably don't care until you get the trinket (if you ever do ) but currently the play style with the trinket is that if you go into meta you have to base that decision entirely around staying there for at least 10 seconds (8 if you are quick with reacting to the trinket proc) because if you get an Unerring proc after you go out you need to not have meta on cd so you can pop back in and refresh Doom. Demo entirely revolves around the trinket right now.

It's really hard for me to give any advice on how to play demo without it because I mained aff in 5.1 and just started playing demo again this week and had to relearn demo with the trinket because it really is that much of a game changer. Back in 5.1 you NEVER used SF in meta unless you were overwhelmed with fury. Now with 2pt15 you can burn MC procs in meta during DS or again if you are fury capping and can't spend it quick enough with ToC spamming. A general rule I use is if I have MC procs and DS is about to come up is to hold the MC's and burn them in meta as long as I'm going in with about 50% fury. If DS isn't close to coming off CD and I wanna do a mini dump I'll burn the MC's to get fury for one.

For your specific question about the legendary and dropping meta to burn MC's I would say finish you're burn cycle and don't bother dropping unless you are continually fury starved. That's going to be the deciding factor for you. If you are fury starved all the time then drop meta and use the procs for the gain. If you aren't starving then finish your dump cycle and then burn the MC's after to prep for another mini burn or a DS burn. MC has a long timer on it so you should never really feel compelled to burn them as soon as you get them. I'm pretty sure Zinnin's guide or maybe the one Evrelia made on his youtube account said to try and hold your MC's for when you have int procs up to make them hit harder. If you feel your dps is low right now because you aren't gaining enough fury I would possibly swap specs to destro or aff until you have at least 4 piece because that will help with fury generation.

Feel free to ask if you still have questions

[Deleted]

I very recently switched to Demo as I got UVLS, but there are still a few things I'm a bit confused with.
Whenever my UVLS procs, should I cast a Doom even if I have another Doom which is affected by UVLS on the target?
Should I spam ToC during meta instead of casting Soul Fire which is affected by MC?
Should I cast Soul Fire whenever MC is up no matter if I'm in meta or trinket procs?

It's probaly quite dumb questions, but I can't quite figure out my priorities completely.
Thanks in advance.

[Bloodfire]

About updating Doom on target.
Should I wait for powerful Doom to come off and later bring up another one, or should I cast one which is significantly lower?

[weakdots]

you are supposed to refresh a crit enhanced doom with another crit enhanced even if your prior one was stronger because you dont know when you will get a proc again and dont want to risk having non (c) dooms on your target. your dmg with the trinket comes from the imps u spawn when doom crits, not from doom itself.

[Deleted]

Recently got the legendary gem which made me kind of unsure of how much I should trust simcraft, considering I've also heard here and there that it's not entirely accurate for the Demonology spec. According to my latest sims for my own personal gear I gaind dps if I focus Mastery > Crit > Haste, whilst running without the Imp Swarm glyph. But at the same time I read here and there that Imp Swarm along with stacking haste is great with the gem proc.

So how much should I trust my own simulation here, should I go along with it and go for mostly mastery and crit without the glyph, or should I stack haste and use the Imp Swarm on gem procs? Also should I in that case save Dark Soul for the proc?

Armory link.

[Killem]

Has anyone else noticed, that the 4pc T15 is not working correctly for demo?
The only spell that recieves the set bonus is Soul Fire.

I'll do some more testing, but if it continues to stay like that, I'd say, dropping the 4pc bonus for nonset items should be more than worth it.

Maybe an US player can create a forum post on the offical forums.

[Xyronic]

you are supposed to refresh a crit enhanced doom with another crit enhanced even if your prior one was stronger because you dont know when you will get a proc again and dont want to risk having non (c) dooms on your target. your dmg with the trinket comes from the imps u spawn when doom crits, not from doom itself.

This is false. Your first double doom is ticking so much faster than your next dooms, it will be a dps loss to refresh way too early. I only refresh my supercharged crit doom if it has less than ~30 seconds left on it.

[fuzeddd]

This is false. Your first double doom is ticking so much faster than your next dooms, it will be a dps loss to refresh way too early. I only refresh my supercharged crit doom if it has less than ~30 seconds left on it.

I do believe that doom does not scale with haste. It ticks every 15 seconds regardless.

[Prisefighter]

I do believe that doom does not scale with haste. It ticks every 15 seconds regardless.

That is definitely incorrect. It does scale with haste. With Lust, Berserking, meta gem, and Kafa Press I had my dooms ticking just over 5 secs. Along those lines, did anyone determine if the extra imps from using Kafa Press rather than pre-potting with Int pot would be a dps increase/decrease?

[Deleted]

I was enjoying Destro at the start of the tier and annihilating the rest of my raid on damage but now our ilevel is getting higher the gap has disappeared. I was never a huge fan of Affliction so I'm thinking of respeccing Demo. no UVoLS yet, normal or LFR, but I have Cha-Ye's and BoTH 522, and legendary meta gem: is Demo comparable to the others with that setup?

[Gremory1]

This is false. Your first double doom is ticking so much faster than your next dooms, it will be a dps loss to refresh way too early. I only refresh my supercharged crit doom if it has less than ~30 seconds left on it.

This is definitely true, however I think it depends on the ilevel and therefore the expected gap between procs on your UVOLS. Since the initial Doom has a duration of 2 minutes and 15 seconds, if you have only the 502 or 522 version then maybe something closer to 1 minute would be reasonable because I've definitely gone more than 90 seconds without a proc before.

[Deleted]

does Wild Imps snapshot?