[5.4] Demonology Warlock Guide

[Mazda]

Replacing Shadow Bolt when you don't have a haste proc up (Bloodlust, Tempus Repit, Berserking) drops my dps from 349k to 341k in sims. So no, under most situations you shouldn't replace Shadow Bolt with Fel Flame. That said however, that is a very small dps loss for movement and basically means you should never ever take KjC as demo.

Now that I have free time again (woo progression being over) I am going to spend some time updating the OP as much as I can to bring people up to speed on Post-UVLS / 5.4 Demo. This spec isn't even close to dead, but I have a feeling most people are trying to play it wrong.

I get a shaky feeling that ultra high haste is making a comeback?

[weakdots]

i think full crit is a lot more likely

I get a shaky feeling that ultra high haste is making a comeback?

[Jessicka]

i think full crit is a lot more likely

My own experience says otherwise. I'm still finding UVLS + Haste to work just fine. I think it probably will need Heroic trinkets before you can think about switching.

[Zinnin]

I think that Mastery -> Haste to a breakpoint -> Crit -> Haste is the best. I don't like UVLS.

[Mazda]

i think full crit is a lot more likely

There is no reason why we would try to hold on to a dmg source that just isn't there anymore. Imps are the past, efficient Meta weave is the future.

[Jessicka]

There is no reason why we would try to hold on to a dmg source that just isn't there anymore. Imps are the past, efficient Meta weave is the future.

Imps were as much about the Fury as the damage, if not moreso. It is, was and will remain about both effective weaving and Imp management.

The nerf to UVLS just hurt the spec's reliability, the nerf to the Imps wasn't actually that big a hit to our total throughput.

[coupes]

any 1 try'ed a heavy haste build to get imps faster ?

[Hellfury]

This spec isn't even close to dead, but I have a feeling most people are trying to play it wrong.

No sarcasm intended, but I really wana know how you can do it, I loved MOP Demo and I made every try to make it work, crit build, pre uvls, passive etc. I dont know how it can be resuscitated.

Demo is dead last on every log making company to hunter MM and rogue Sub, but while rogue sub and hunter MM are unpopular specs, demo wasnt it lost its popularity because of lose in effectiveness.

[Jessicka]

No sarcasm intended, but I really wana know how you can do it, I loved MOP Demo and I made every try to make it work, crit build, pre uvls, passive etc. I dont know how it can be resuscitated.

Demo is dead last on every log making company to hunter MM and rogue Sub, but while rogue sub and hunter MM are unpopular specs, demo wasnt it lost its popularity because of lose in effectiveness.

It's because a lot of players respecced, and those who remained have been trying alternative trinkets/reforges etc and found the spec still wanting. It really does need UVLS still, or better trinkets from SoO and people haven't had chance to get those yet.

[weakdots]

There is no reason why we would try to hold on to a dmg source that just isn't there anymore. Imps are the past, efficient Meta weave is the future.

i was saying crit more for the imps fury gain then the dmg they actually do. the only fights im currently demo on are weekly H protectors and N paragons farms, but even this week with my crit @ 30ish % (destro build) i had 14 imps at one point on paragons without imp swarm and it felt healthy on the fury gen. I tried demo with 18k+ haste after the uvls nerf went live which is the build i used in t15 and i was just a wet noodle which is why i dont think it will work.

[xuros]

Right now i run a low haste high mastery / crit build for destro main build. Would my stats be good enough to carry demo for a fight or two or would i have to reforge more haste to make it work? http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Sohl/advanced I have a 530 uvls in the bank btw.

[Hellfury]

It's because a lot of players respecced, and those who remained have been trying alternative trinkets/reforges etc and found the spec still wanting. It really does need UVLS still, or better trinkets from SoO and people haven't had chance to get those yet.

Sorry I dont aggre, alot of us were forced to respec cause the spec stoped to perform and we are doing HC progress were every single digit of DPS maters.

There are 2 flagrant examples

Tokh 25HC were Demo was fuck strong pre UVLS nerf, There are not even enough logs reports to raidbots to show a graph.
Iron Juggernaut 25HC a really easy fight that its mostly a patchwerk fight, Demo is dead last

[Deleted]

Sorry I dont aggre, alot of us were forced to respec cause the spec stoped to perform and we are doing HC progress were every single digit of DPS maters.

There are 2 flagrant examples

Tokh 25HC were Demo was fuck strong pre UVLS nerf, There are not even enough logs reports to raidbots to show a graph.
Iron Juggernaut 25HC a really easy fight that its mostly a patchwerk fight, Demo is dead last

Demo isn't even worse than bottom half of the specs in game. There is just no reason to play demo when Affli and Destro are two top specs in game. 2-3 Weeks ago all top and bestgeared warlocks played affli or demo and because of that destro didn't have top parses in WoL. Destro got small buff and they nerfed demo little bit and now destro is very popular spec and it went from bottom to top.

[Jessicka]

Sorry I dont aggre, alot of us were forced to respec cause the spec stoped to perform and we are doing HC progress were every single digit of DPS maters.

There are 2 flagrant examples

Tokh 25HC were Demo was fuck strong pre UVLS nerf, There are not even enough logs reports to raidbots to show a graph.
Iron Juggernaut 25HC a really easy fight that its mostly a patchwerk fight, Demo is dead last

How are these not testament to Demo players respeccing Destr/Aff (thus no logs), or trying different workarounds for UVLS without success (poor performance)?

How UVLS works has not changed, it just procs less often, which means the spec is more reliant on getting decent RNG to perform. Using different trinkets may raise the floor slightly, but it does nothing to help with the potential ceiling.

[Hellfury]

Demo isn't even worse than bottom half of the specs in game. There is just no reason to play demo when Affli and Destro are two top specs in game. 2-3 Weeks ago all top and bestgeared warlocks played affli or demo and because of that destro didn't have top parses in WoL. Destro got small buff and they nerfed demo little bit and now destro is very popular spec and it went from bottom to top.

You particularly said what I mean in other words.

A spec popularity is tied on how it performs, especially on HC logs, when a spec loses strength it loses popularity. Demo downfall and Destro rises its the perfect example of this.

Demo in ToT was pretty popular so it cant be compared to historically unpopular specs such as hunter MM, Mage frost and rogue Sub

Ofc its impossible to keep them all 3 balanced, but I feel this was much better achieved in the first tier of this expansion, there was a place for all 3, even though Aff was more popular, demo was perfectly viable on alot of fights same thing for destro.

[Werst]

The last fight I tested on was h.thok and despite dominating in prior weeks demo was 30-50K'ish behind 15% post agony nerf aff most of the night. Considering how much less demo loses compared to affliction I found it very disappointing. I was using a 2/2 normal black blood (renewing doom w' 2pc or darksoul at 10x stacks), 543 yulon's bite as my 2nd trinket, fishing for 2pc procs while in caster then toc dumping, and running the usual service grimoire w' AD. Most pulls I was 250-270K as demo and low 300K's as aff so it was a significant gap.

I like demo's mechanics I just feel like the imp thing was overdone and overall it was nerfed pretty harshly. Moving damage from a passive like imps to a reactive is fine but so far I just don't see the silver lining. If anyone can find a way to make demo work its Zinn but right now gear for gear destro or aff just seem to be stronger. One world class player going to extraordinary measures to make something on par with what other specs do out of the box doesn't make it okay, it just speaks to that one player's level.

[Zinnin]

I made a pass at the OP and updated anything I saw that was wrong, including the trinket list.

I have played Demo on Siegecrafter and Thok the last couple weeks and have done more dps then our lock that was playing Affliction, that said my guild is a pretty small sample size and I haven't actually looked at any public logs to see how it is stacking up to the competition. However, I was still higher dps then every other class as well so I don't think it was just a play issue on the Afflocks part.

I also play Demo on Immerseus, Fallen Protectors, Norushen, Sha of Pride, Iron Juggernaut, Dark Shaman, and Malkorok and have not once felt like I was low dps. The only fight out of those that I think other specs are even close on is Fallen Protectors as Aff, but even that is very close. Single target is pretty close between all 3 specs now I think.

I am currently using Cha-yes and Black Blood, I dropped UVLS without even trying it once I saw the hotfix.

The biggest thing people need to realize is how much proper fury management means now. We don't have unlimited fury to just waste with no procs up anymore. If you HoG-weave into no procs you should be leaving meta as soon as HoG lands and not sitting in meta. Save MC stacks to bait 2pc procs during other trinket procs, and stack the shit out of Doom. Doom is an absolute power-house of damage if used right, I almost think that Wushoolays or Black Blood is a requirement if you drop UVLS. On Single target AD is huge in making sure that you are maximizing Doom damage.

[Werst]

Hey Zinn, you have an APL for 540-4 that might capture some of this? What's up w' the crit stack at the expense of mastery? Specific setup or where the spec is actually going itemization wise?

[Zinnin]

Never, ever, ever use my armory to based ideas off of...I tend to try random ass shit when I'm bored and forget to go back to normal when I'm done. I've found that there are times when crit might be slightly better then mastery, but it isn't consistent enough, and even when it is, it isn't enough to make me want to play it (1k dps when im simming 350k)

[weakdots]

thought i would bring this up since you updated the trinket list but why is lfr binding simming higher then flex bindings?