[5.4] Demonology Warlock Guide

[icecoldsir]

Like Zinnin and others said, it is not underperforming compared to Aff and Destro unless you are sitting below the gear requirements (560-ish with at least 2 set bonus) OR you get resource return from adds. If you play Demo on a godlike level, and you play Aff and Destro on the same godlike level as well, and you have the gear and the fight doesn't give you adds to get embers/shards back, then demo can and will dominate. The thing is getting to 560 ilvl on time.

But it is, sure it's not as bad as people are making it sound and it is competitive on a select few fights overall like zinnin mentioned but it's still lacking compared to destro and affliction.

[mr2toes]

This is mostly about council style fights specifically protectors. Was wondering how I should be using immolation aura now that we don't have infinite fury with UVLS. Should I be using it every time I enter meta or saving it for mannoroths fury. I also noticed that if I used soul fire with immolation aura my fury gets eaten real fast, so something tells me I should be using soul fires in caster form rather then meta form.

as for corruption, should I keep it up on as many targets as possible? if so should I be tab ToCing them or just reapplying with corruption?

any advice would be appreciated, thanks in advance

[Deleted]

But it is, sure it's not as bad as people are making it sound and it is competitive on a select few fights overall like zinnin mentioned but it's still lacking compared to destro and affliction.

It really is not lacking, the spec is in a good place and you can be at the top of the damage with it.

[OokingDooker]

It seems like the most optimal way to dps with demo lock now is to save up MC procs until you get about 8 or 9, pool up fury by meta hog weave/spamming shadow bolt, then once you get a bboy or bindings int proc (lining up with dark soul when you have the opportunity), you fury dump by spending your MC procs, if no more MC procs you spam ToC. That about sum it up?

[EvreliaGaming]

I dunno if you actually tried the spec, but it does not actually take more effort to play well.

I disagree. Demo has a higher skill cap then either Aff or Destro. A lot of decisions to make.

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It seems like the most optimal way to dps with demo lock now is to save up MC procs until you get about 8 or 9, pool up fury by meta hog weave/spamming shadow bolt, then once you get a bboy or bindings int proc (lining up with dark soul when you have the opportunity), you fury dump by spending your MC procs, if no more MC procs you spam ToC. That about sum it up?

That's basically how it's always been though.

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What ability or abilities give demo fury for scoring a killing blow (is it any time a demo lock scores the killing blow or does only getting the killing blow with certain spells do it?). Also, how much fury do you gain per killing blow? I have seen it mentioned a few times but going through tooltips I have never seen any mention of getting fury from killing blows, nor do I see it in Zinnin's guide. I don't doubt it exists I have just never adjusted my playstyle in order to take advantage of this opportunity like I do with DS for affi and Sburn with destruction.

Except Demo requires a killing blow, and SB/DS do not require the lock to do the killing damage. You are basically never going to get this in 25 man and it's unlikely on 10 man.

[Zinnin]

Yep, basically the only time your going to see a fury return is if you get AoE killing blows, that might happen in a 10m with our AoE burst, but in a 25m it isn't going to be something you can count on at all.

[OokingDooker]

I disagree. Demo has a higher skill cap then either Aff or Destro. A lot of decisions to make.

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That's basically how it's always been though.

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Except Demo requires a killing blow, and SB/DS do not require the lock to do the killing damage. You are basically never going to get this in 25 man and it's unlikely on 10 man.

Last tier, you didnt have to worry about dumping fury right time as much compared to now. No more gazillion imps from doom. I'd say it has a higher learning curve, I dunno about the higher skill cap though.

[Jessicka]

Last tier, you didnt have to worry about dumping fury right time as much compared to now. No more gazillion imps from doom. I'd say it has a higher learning curve, I dunno about the higher skill cap though.

I find it strange that the spec isn't playing any differently to how it did in 5.0 to 5.1, even early 5.2 when it could compete pretty easily, but somehow now its suddenly hard to play and align the stars, requires a high gear and skill floor, "but it's fine".

[Bonkura]

well, I seem to do similar single target as Affli/Destro with 566 ilvl so I will try Demo during our farm today. I'll report back about how it goes. I've got another skilled lock in my 10 man group so should be easy to compare.

[Zinnin]

I find it strange that the spec isn't playing any differently to how it did in 5.0 to 5.1, even early 5.2 when it could compete pretty easily, but somehow now its suddenly hard to play and align the stars, requires a high gear and skill floor, "but it's fine".

Big thing in 5.0 and 5.1 trinkets were all either ICD or on use, so there was never a situation where you could be unsure if it was the right time to dump fury or not. Rppm adds a bit of RNG and requires quick decisions the fury dump that I don't think people are 100% used to yet, especially after the bad habits that were picked up during ToT.

[Jessicka]

Big thing in 5.0 and 5.1 trinkets were all either ICD or on use, so there was never a situation where you could be unsure if it was the right time to dump fury or not. Rppm adds a bit of RNG and requires quick decisions the fury dump that I don't think people are 100% used to yet, especially after the bad habits that were picked up during ToT.

Bindings is a 115sec ICD, I get almost 100% coverage between that and Dark Soul. And mistiming Black Blood as Destro can loose you over a million damage on a Chaos Bolt (think about that with Havoc for a moment). Again, the importance of trinket timing for Demo isn't happening in a vacuum.

[EvreliaGaming]

Last tier, you didnt have to worry about dumping fury right time as much compared to now. No more gazillion imps from doom. I'd say it has a higher learning curve, I dunno about the higher skill cap though.

Ah yes, I was unlucky enough not to see UVLS for basically the entire of ToT, so my Demo playstyle hasn't really been affected by the nerf.

[Werst]

Destro a BB proc falling off is quite a loss...better to go a stack early than late for sure...especially since you can sneak in a immolate renewal at 10x stacks which has a similar DPET to CB or even a conflag/FF. Demo you can at least stopcast or jump and doom at the 10th stack pretty reliably....its just getting BB procs at semi reliably intervals can cripple demo. IE one of those streaks where you go 2+ mins of dryspell into a back to back proc. Doom/momentum weakens a ton then you get procs faster than you have DF to spend on it. Aff or destro adapt to that situation a bit better (esp aff) than demo so that is probably a contributing factor. Same way UVLS procs spaced roughly evenly apart were worth tons more than 3 min without then back to back to back during T15.

Unless you are psychic, Zinn, or just love demo the other two specs can offer results with less effort. I kind of think demo will take off more once people get comfortable with the fights enough they can focus on their decisions more than fight mechanics....stupidly high ilvl will not hurt either. Mass resource generation available to aff/dest also hurts demo somewhat since so many SoO fights have adds that allow for much more of a secondary resource than we'd get from even perfectly executed normal rotations. That said, demo takes to using AD the best so as fight times get shorter demo will naturally get better....though aff does open really hard.

[Zinnin]

Unless you are psychic, Zinn, or just love demo the other two specs can offer results with less effort.

Heh, never said Demo doesn't require effort, but that is why I like playing it.

[Nayelie]

Last night, pulled on top during Fallen Protectors in my raid group. I kept Doom up on the 3 bosses, and hoarded my fury and MC procs until I could line them up with trinket procs. I am gemmed/reforged Int > Hit > Crit > Haste to 4717 > Mastery. I chose the 4717 haste because it kept some speed in my cast times, but it is slower than previously. Didn't feel too starved of fury by spending most of it on MC procs. That kept me out of Meta long enough to build up enough fury. I have my 2-set, so that helped out a lot too.

[Iwiperaids]

A lot of people are talking about how Aff and Dest produce better numbers or better numbers with less effort but for me, the utility of Demo is too great to give-up. I can't count the number of times demonic leap has saved my rear on Thok. Or using meteor on Galakras and Malkorok. It's great to just jump off anything from any height and slam into the ground while taking no damage. Love it!

I will say the one thing that makes me sad in SOO is how unfriendly the fights are with pets (not all - but some). I really like using my felguard, sharing dmg with my pet and other such things but so many fights i see my pet die. I end up having to use GoSac which is fine but playing one of two pet classes, I personally enjoy using pets and would rather use pets. I'd like to see fights like Kor'kron be a little more forgiving with pets. Or maybe Thok can quit eating my pet.. he's a demon... how good can he taste?

I know the other two specs have utility as well but after playing all three specs throughout this xpack - I enjoy demo and unless they nerf it so hard it's not competitive, I'll continue to play it.

[Deleted]

Or using meteor on Galakras and Malkorok. It's great to just jump off anything from any height and slam into the ground while taking no damage. Love it!

Leap is cool I get that but you're way better off using your portal for jumping off towers or reducing the knockup on Malkorok...

Leap costs 50 fury and puts you in meta. Portal has no negative side effects.

[lichanator]

Heh, never said Demo doesn't require effort, but that is why I like playing it.

Zin, I see you went the 14.9k haste shadowflame breakpoint, how did that feel and numbers wise?

[Xephyria]

Greetings, to start off, I'm gonna first point out the fact that I'm an advocate for the Demonology spec and have been clinching top 20 world parses for the spec on most heroic fights in TOT including couple of rank top 5s. I'd like to believe that I am proficient at this spec and after testing all 3 specs on the current tier, I have come up with the following conclusion:

Firstly, the way T16 fights are designed gives little room for play for Demonology. To properly consider min maxing between specs for fights, we should consider which fights atm require a proper dps check and which fights require utility for each spec. ( and those are the fights that would roughly determine which specs we should focus on this tier for gearing )

Demonology may be good on Immerseus ( numbers wise ) but considering it's the first heroic boss of the instance ( and is considerably quite a joke compared to the others ), most warlocks wouldnt be thinking of any sort of min maxing for this particular heroic.

Take Fallen Protectors, Affliction absolutely rapes the fight by a large margin compared to any of our other specs.

Norushen again, is pointless for Demonology.

Sha of Pride demo numbers may be insanely high but that's only because of the burst aoe on the adds and lack of fury spent dumping damage on boss. ( Adds is usually not the main issue here and destro/affliction will usually be more all rounded with both adds damage and boss damage coupled with unlimited energy ).

For Galakras, Demo may sound strong but it's an absolute joke compared to destro. Furthermore, high health adds in this fight give rise to the ability to maintain dots on all targets for affliction making it an equally viable spec to play with. Demo gives solid burst aoe dps but destro gives strong sustained aoe dps. ( and the fact that destro/aff's energy is also unlimited on this fight ).

Iron jug however does give demo an edge with the slight movements ( and considering it can spec into AD for additional damage ), likewise for Malkorok. However, for Malkorok, any sound raid leader would have all the ranged dps to focus on the boss and only cleave on the adds if it results in a single target dps increase. The main bulk of cleaving should be done by melees and that gives alot of opportunity to shadowburn cleave for destro on this fight making it a far superior spec compared to demo if played properly. ( even with KJC )

Dark Shaman, destro just rapes the fight, and furthermore adds usually aint the issue. Nazgim demo just suck when you have destro/affliction on the table which can provide better utility and damage.

On spoils, with the constant amount of AOE needed, demo will just be too fury starved to actually do any real aoe damage.

On Paragons, Demo does seem to have a chance as keeping up doom on all targets ( without any significant padding ) will be a good boost to single target dps increase. ( It should not be the case where it can be argued that the stuns bring extra utility to the raid since alot of classes can provide stuns while affliction does bring that extra CoE slows on the bloods )

On Garrosh, Destro just rapes the fight. There are too many instances where you can shadowburn cleave ( including desecrate weapon in P2 ) while maintaining very high AOE in P1. Empowered whirling adds also give extra shadowburn cleaving as well as unlimited energy.

Regarding utility, only fight on heroic which may possibly require a demo set up would be Heroic Siegecrafter. Rest of the fights are plain simple, when you have so many mechanics that favour destro/affliction energy, it leaves no room to even touch Demo. If you're using demonic leap to get out of fire ( and as an excuse for good utility ) that would suggest that you would need to work more on your game play. A good utility class brings something to the raid that they can actually use like Devo/HotW tranqs/Rallying Cry etc.

Basically, for any fight for demo to be competitive with its other specs, it has to use AD to compensate for its lower dps while the others using KJC. If you are a skilled warlock where you know how to weave in instant casts/GCDs within your movement ( including positioning yourself when you're instant casting so that you do not need to avoid fire later ), this gives space for destro/affliction to spec into AD which would make Demo look like a joke.

[Jessicka]

Basically, for any fight for demo to be competitive with its other specs, it has to use AD to compensate for its lower dps while the others using KJC. If you are a skilled warlock where you know how to weave in instant casts/GCDs within your movement ( including positioning yourself when you're instant casting so that you do not need to avoid fire later ), this gives space for destro/affliction to spec into AD which would make Demo look like a joke.

Using AD that way means giving up Service for Supremacy, I think that kind of defeats the object of timing and focusing your damage. I tend to use the bonus charge to get cover over more or less the full duration of Heroism, whenever that's timed for the encounter, because that tends to be when it matters most.