[5.4] Demonology Warlock Guide

[Zinnin]

I'm seeing you go for full haste (21k!) - you trying that for the lulz or any deeper reasoning behind it?

The gear i'm currently wearing isn't what I was actually using, I was trying to see if there was a way to make 3pc WF better then 4pc, however in my normal set I do run 22k haste, and I think it's pretty solid

[Deleted]

Haven't tested it, but did they fix casting drain life and jumping out of meta to generate fury instead of spending it whilst still snapshotting mastery?

[Woz]

How long was the cast time for shadow bolt and soul fire?

1.66s for shadow bolt
2.65s for soul fire

[Zinnin]

Haven't tested it, but did they fix casting drain life and jumping out of meta to generate fury instead of spending it whilst still snapshotting mastery?

No, but Drain life snapshots so it is still casting Meta Drain Life

_______________________________________________________

Big Edit:

Haste Demo - Harvest Life

So I've been running high haste for awhile now (21990) and a few weeks ago started debating whether or not using Harvest Life would actually end up being a gain in some situations. Took some time to wait for the guys over at SimC to get it patched in, but in my gear it came out to be a noticeable increase (471.3k -> 476.6k).

If you decide you want to mess around with it here are the factors where it is usable:
Black Blood > 9 stacks (Doom over Drain Life of course) - Do this in or out of meta over soulfire
Expanded Mind duration less then your current filler - Snapshotting a drain life gives you a few more seconds of trinket use, even if it's a lower scaling spell
Any % Haste procs - Do this over ToC in meta




Here is my SimC APL if you're interested in recreating this for yourself to see if it is an increase.

actions=curse_of_the_elements,if=debuff.magic_vulnerability.down
actions+=/use_item,name=gloves_of_the_horned_nightmare
actions+=/jade_serpent_potion,if=(buff.berserking.up&buff.dark_soul.up)|(buff.black_blood_of_yshaarj.up&buff.dark_soul.up)|time_to_die<30
actions+=/lifeblood,if=buff.dark_soul.up|buff.expanded_mind.up|buff.bloodlust.up
actions+=/berserking,if=(buff.dark_soul.up&buff.expanded_mind.up)|(buff.bloodlust.up&buff.jade_serpent_potion.up)|time_to_die<15
actions+=/imp_swarm,if=((buff.dark_soul.up&buff.lifeblood.up)|(cooldown.dark_soul.remains>(120%(1%spell_haste)))|time_to_die<32)&time>3
actions+=/dark_soul,if=!talent.archimondes_darkness.enabled|(talent.archimondes_darkness.enabled&(charges=2|trinket.proc.intellect.react|trinket.stacking_proc.intellect.react|target.health.pct<=10))
actions+=/service_pet,if=talent.grimoire_of_service.enabled
actions+=/felguard:felstorm
actions+=/wrathguard:wrathstorm
actions+=/run_action_list,name=aoe,if=active_enemies>4
actions+=/summon_doomguard
actions+=/doom,cycle_targets=1,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&(ticks_remain<=1|(ticks_remain+1<n_ticks&buff.dark_soul.up)|(ticks_remain<=add_ticks%2&stat.spell_power>spell_power))&target.time_to_die>=30&miss_react
actions+=/cancel_metamorphosis,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&buff.dark_soul.down&demonic_fury<=650&target.time_to_die>30&(cooldown.metamorphosis.remains<4|demonic_fury<=300)&!(action.hand_of_guldan.in_flight&dot.shadowflame.remains)
actions+=/drain_life,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&(buff.black_blood_of_yshaarj.react>=9|(buff.expanded_mind.remains<action.soul_fire.cast_time&buff.expanded_mind.up))
actions+=/soul_fire,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&buff.molten_core.react&(buff.dark_soul.remains<action.shadow_bolt.cast_time|buff.dark_soul.remains>cast_time)
actions+=/drain_life,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&(buff.berserking.up|buff.tempus_repit.up|buff.bloodlust.up)
actions+=/touch_of_chaos,if=buff.metamorphosis.up
actions+=/metamorphosis,if=(buff.dark_soul.up&buff.dark_soul.remains<demonic_fury%32)|demonic_fury>=950|demonic_fury%32>target.time_to_die|(action.hand_of_guldan.in_flight&dot.shadowflame.remains)
actions+=/corruption,cycle_targets=1,if=!ticking&target.time_to_die>=8&miss_react
actions+=/corruption,cycle_targets=1,if=spell_power<stat.spell_power&ticks_remain<=add_ticks%2&target.time_to_die>=6&miss_react
actions+=/hand_of_guldan,if=!in_flight&dot.shadowflame.remains<travel_time+action.shadow_bolt.cast_time&(charges=2|dot.shadowflame.remains>travel_time|(charges=1&recharge_time<4))
actions+=/drain_life,if=buff.black_blood_of_yshaarj.react>=9|(buff.expanded_mind.remains<action.shadow_bolt.cast_time&buff.expanded_mind.up)
actions+=/soul_fire,if=buff.molten_core.react&(buff.dark_soul.remains<action.shadow_bolt.cast_time|buff.dark_soul.remains>cast_time)&(buff.molten_core.react>9|target.health.pct<=28)
actions+=/life_tap,if=mana.pct<35
actions+=/shadow_bolt
actions+=/fel_flame,moving=1
actions+=/life_tap

[Dutchlock]

Nice work-up Thanks for the info and APL

[nsgid]

Is demo any good on heroic garrosh? I'd like to play it, but I was just curious if ya any of you 14/14 hm locks use it on heroic garrosh? If so, how's the damage? And should I go for the 14k haste breakpoint? If so, how much mastery should I sacrifice to reach it? I'm currently at 154% mastery and 12,005 haste in my current gear so I'm sure I could sacrifice some mastery for it. Btw, those stats are in aff soec

[Alarinth]

Is demo any good on heroic garrosh? I'd like to play it, but I was just curious if ya any of you 14/14 hm locks use it on heroic garrosh? If so, how's the damage? And should I go for the 14k haste breakpoint? If so, how much mastery should I sacrifice to reach it? I'm currently at 154% mastery and 12,005 haste in my current gear so I'm sure I could sacrifice some mastery for it. Btw, those stats are in aff soec

Personally I wouldn't recommend it, even though the toolkit it offers is very good for that particular fight. I very much want to play it myself, but the boons it provides to Destruction are just too good to pass up. That is, if your guild is killing it without problem, you can probably go for it.

I'll refer to what others have said earlier regarding the breakpoints; 8.1k+ works safe for most people, 14.8k+ becomes high risk medium reward style sorta thing. After either of those hastepoints, mastery is the thing to stack, which sorta answers your question in regards to how much mastery you want I guess.

/ramble

[Bonkura]

@Zinnin: Finally someone clarified what this high haste Drain Life thing was about. I tried some stuff out myself but couldn't figure it out . I'll probably try it out together with a high haste Affli build I've wanted to test for a while. It just sucks I've recently changed from Troll and dropped Herbalism. ^^;;

[Killem]

Is demo any good on heroic garrosh? I'd like to play it, but I was just curious if ya any of you 14/14 hm locks use it on heroic garrosh? If so, how's the damage? And should I go for the 14k haste breakpoint? If so, how much mastery should I sacrifice to reach it? I'm currently at 154% mastery and 12,005 haste in my current gear so I'm sure I could sacrifice some mastery for it. Btw, those stats are in aff soec

I was planning to do Garrosh hc in low haste reforge (8,1k) as Demo, BUT Destro provided the better toolkit for our tactic we used to kill him. (Also add the fact, that none of the other persons in my raid was able to solo the engineer.)

It is crucial to list the pros and cons for each tactic and choose the specc, depending on that list.
For example Destro is the top choice, if you are going to solo the engineer and kill the weapons in P2 (Shadowburn).
If you do not need to kill the engineer and are not going for the weapons in P2/P3, Demo becomes a viable choice as you generate lots of wild imps with Doom. Also the knockback in P1 with the short CD can be very valuable.
As I don't play Affli, I can't list any advantages other than SB:CoEx in P1 for a kite tactic and 2-3 good bursts if you are not going for the second intermission.

And to that haste breakpoint question:
Play the way, you feel comfortable, especially for learning a new fight! The results do not differ that much, but the gameplay differs quite a bit. The low haste high mastery approach provides the stronger burst (but fewer) and less damage loss, if you have to move with ToC.


And thanks Zinnin, that you validated my assumption and provided the APL, it saved me quite some time.
EDIT: saved not that much time, but a little bit. Going to try out BBoY (561) vs KTT (580) with my gear.

[Jessicka]

Well that's going to make Meta+Legendary/Lust feel less lame, which I've been moaning about since MoP Beta. Not sure I understand the logic with the Black Blood though, DL snapshots so it's going to be ticking for the lower stacks you start at, or do we spam it to keep refreshing?

[Deleted]

I've been using soulfire then snapshotting drain life at the end once it reaches 10 stacks.

[Killem]

Well that's going to make Meta+Legendary/Lust feel less lame, which I've been moaning about since MoP Beta. Not sure I understand the logic with the Black Blood though, DL snapshots so it's going to be ticking for the lower stacks you start at, or do we spam it to keep refreshing?

As far as I understand it, Drain Life does a snapshot, when you cast it. If you use Drain Life right before the proccs fall off, it ticks with the strenght of those proccs.
You can even drop out of Meta then, it should use the mastery coefficient of Meta for the rest of the cast.

In other words: Use Drain Life, when Soul Fire's cast time is too long to use the proccs.

[Alarinth]

As far as I understand it, Drain Life does a snapshot, when you cast it. If you use Drain Life right before the proccs fall off, it ticks with the strenght of those proccs.
You can even drop out of Meta then, it should use the mastery coefficient of Meta for the rest of the cast.

Correct - but it also uses the meta cost, ie. Demonic Fury instead of mana. And that is significant, since it costs around 200 fury. It also does a ****ton of damage when used under the right circumstances. One application of this spell can do upwards of 2m damage, as it tick crits for 560k+.

[Zinnin]

As far as I understand it, Drain Life does a snapshot, when you cast it. If you use Drain Life right before the proccs fall off, it ticks with the strenght of those proccs.
You can even drop out of Meta then, it should use the mastery coefficient of Meta for the rest of the cast.

In other words: Use Drain Life, when Soul Fire's cast time is too long to use the proccs.

Yep this is correct, soul fire > Drain life until your next soulfire would finish after the proc wears off.

IF so, how much mastery should I sacrifice to reach it?

Quick thing about Mastery and Demo, it isn't nearly as good as everyone thinks it is. At best it might be like Haste 1.1 Crit 1 Mastery 1.2, when you talk about switching stats around in Demo never think of it as 'sacrificing mastery' as much as 'gaining what could be a better stat'. This isn't Wrath / Cata where our secondaries had wildly different worth, and there are many times where Haste is solidly better then Mastery.

[Lanorala]

This drain life info is interesting; I'll admit, since it was no fun to use on trash/farming/sweet visuals since the AoE nerf I hadn't looked into its potential.

I also want to say that I did my first run post 14k haste reforge and MAN does it feel better! I'm not a number cruncher but the play style felt smoother, I had a good chunk of fury for my opener and was able to pool enough fury to use MF for its full duration on AoE fights. Lol probably operator error but it definitely feels way more fluid. ty for all the work you people put into simming all these ideas and trying them out; it really shows how much you guys love to play their locks!

keep up the awesome work guys !

[Zinnin]

Big update to guide to get it caught up with everything, let me know if anything needs to be clearer or if I missed something.

[Zevoa]

DPET spreadsheet is pretty amazing, good work.

[Paarthurnax]

Haven't played demo in ages so here are a few questions:

1) Since with a high haste build fury comes in pretty fast what do we do if we get close to capping but don't have any major trinket procs? Use up a few MC procs in meta to get to 750'ish fury then drop out?

2) What should our opener look like? has it changed much from UVLS days? Do we wait tell we are in meta to drop our DG?

prepot+soulfire then grimore/corruption/hog/sbx2/hog/ds/meta/doomx2

[Lanorala]

I was also wondering how do you guys adjust your opener on fights like Noru where you can't exactly precast till the timer hits zero(at least i think thats how it is). Do you still cast SF first thing?

[Zinnin]

I was also wondering how do you guys adjust your opener on fights like Noru where you can't exactly precast till the timer hits zero(at least i think thats how it is). Do you still cast SF first thing?

I don't pre-cast anymore. I pre-cast Dark soul with Tier 14 4pc and switch gear for the 20 seconds of 10% damage increase.