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  1. #1
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Question on Garalon Normal

    Next heabashing moment for our guild will arrive today - Garalon normal mode....

    We've give a few pulls on earlier weeks, but it ended up healers going oom (2 healed) and that well led to nice wipe. I do understand that it takes time to get used to the mechanics, but few good pointers for my setup would be nice - like who should be taking pheromones and whatnot.

    We have:
    Guardian/Feral Druid
    Protection Paladin (he does have a retri OS, but well he does his DPS in tanking gear (hit and exp capped with tons of haste))
    2x Resto/Balance Druid
    Mistweaver/Windwalker Monk
    Resto/ench (ele) Shaman
    Affi/Destro Warlock
    Shadow Priest
    BM/SV hunter
    Possible assassination/combat rogue, balance druid or fire/arcane mage will be on the last spot. As it depends who of them is available and who is not. I know a rogue is best, but if she is not available it will have to be either the druid or mage.

    Would you say 2 or 3 healers? I would actually go with 3 at start and if we run into enrage, we switch to 2 (only fight we have 3 healed and will continue doing so is Emperor in MSV). Or is it better to start with 2 from the beginning. After speaking with our healers (after few pulls we've done on him), the 2 healing was extremely hard and drained their mana fast. Which combination of healer should I have for the fight? Shaman can go ele as well (if I recall properly), but he is enhance/resto atmo.
    But that was maybe possible due to other fuckups. At this point I don't have any decent logs to post.

    For pheromones I would have one of the healers and hunter kiting with both tanks. One thing that concerns me is the tanks taking pheromones. What is the average range the pheromones transfer? And how do both tanks have to be positioned in order not to prematurely transfer pheromones? Or are there better kiters for pheromones to choose from my setup?

    People not kiting should be in middle stacked with the healers (goes for the ranged)? Or should all be standing in the green damage boost circles? If we start with BL/TW and nuke all the legs down what then? Should the melee's just nuke the "inner legs", while ranged focus on the body and tanks on the front "outer leg"? Or should all be focusing on legs, like ranged on the outer legs and melee on the inner ones?

    Would be nice if someone has the time to answer my wall'o'questions ^^
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2012-12-27 at 07:45 AM.
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  2. #2
    You can do this either way
    Red: DPS
    Blue: Tanks (soakers)
    Green: Healers (3 healed)

    note: the raid setup is what you need to be standing like relatively the whole encounter when the boss is moving.


    1 Healer: Towards head (Heals soakers+Kiter)
    1 Healer: Heals Ranged group (priority)
    1 Healer: Free roam (Heals everything and runs around) druids are good for this with hots hots hots.

    1-2 Melee DPS: Do nothing but kill legs.
    All range: Kill legs facing them (inside legs) IF THEY AREN'T IN THE CIRCLE ITS WASTED DPS (keep dots on boss 100%)
    2 Tanks (soakers) Do what they have to do.

    4 Kiters ( Tank, Tank, Range DPS, Range DPS or Healer) 15 - 18 stacks. After first round be watchful of Debuff time (switch immediately when it falls off) Once room starts getting tight with pheromones, let your tanks take the stacks to 25-30 while your DPS focus the last 20% or so health.

    Your raid comp needs to hit 515k DPS to kill this boss.

    (Our first kill was a one shot the night we finally did it lol felt good) http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-r4...?s=3672&e=4085

    Our kiters (Flawen, Astromint, Zumoo, Pvphore) (Guardian Druid, Prot Warrior, Affliction Warlock, Hunter)

    I have one of the tanks at the far end of the cleaves when kiting and the other up near the body whacking on Garalon. This ensures no accidental swaps. The range kiters need to be near the cleaves stacking the pheromones tightly. Only to be in range of the healer and not get too far ahead of himself. This whole fight is based on control of the boss movement and its GG.

    Strategy: Start with tank kiting (doesn't matter which) they just have the best control with cleaves hitting them. Bloodlust, Ranged+Melee destroy all legs and resume position stacked beside the boss (focusing boss until inside legs come up). Melee focus legs 100% of time. Legs are worth 3% boss health, this is crucial at the enrage nearing (Make a call on whether to stop and focus boss or last leg).

    Remember leg DPS is higher than execution DPS.
    Last edited by Defaulty; 2012-12-27 at 09:47 AM.

  3. #3
    We 3 healed this since our DPS are pretty good, but 2 healing is an option. When 2 healing, there can be no fuck ups, an extra crash drains your healers mana quite fast. As Defaulty said, there is a set Raid DPS requirement and if you meet that with 3 healers, go for it. We also had our Tanks wear DPS gear and left one leg untouched for them to cleave at. We assigned one person, our rogue, to deal with the other legs after the first set died while all the other DPS stacked up on one spot only attacking a leg when it is very close to them. We had one healer paying more attention to soakers/kiters (me as a disc priest) and the other two pay more attention to the ranged camp.

    If you are struggeling with DPS you might also want to let the pheromones stack a bit higher so Garalon crushes less, keep in mind that every crush stuns you for a few seconds and is a DPS loss.

    But overall communication is key. Kiters especially need to be verbally active, say when they need to run to avoid being hit by the swipe so the soakers can react. DPS need to communicate when they need help on a leg since legs should die pretty fast. Also Kiters need to communicate when transfering buffs, not running off to the same site. The new kiter needs to be out of the pools when the crush comes. Use personal CDs, Healthstones etc. as often as possible, prevent damage any way you can so it is easier on your healers. Try and keep the raids morale high, after we first killed him (wiped an entire raid night before) we one shot him every time.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    Would you say 2 or 3 healers? I would actually go with 3 at start and if we run into enrage, we switch to 2 (only fight we have 3 healed and will continue doing so is Emperor in MSV).
    Wat? Will 10N is one of the easiest fights to heal.. assuming people arent getting hit by the bosses combos of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    Or is it better to start with 2 from the beginning. After speaking with our healers (after few pulls we've done on him), the 2 healing was extremely hard and drained their mana fast. Which combination of healer should I have for the fight? Shaman can go ele as well (if I recall properly), but he is enhance/resto atmo.
    You need a certain amount of dps to beat the enrage. If you have it, feel free to 3 heal, but speaking frankly if you're on garalon normal there's a good chance you don't. If your dps is generally good, then you will eventually manage it by continuing to refine your performance and execution, I just want to be clear that if you have someone that is, for example, 20k dps low (your lowest dps should be ~70k) then you have absolutely no chance of 3 healing it. The majority of guilds are 2 healing this fight, though our first kill (where we had a different paladin healing) we had to use SIGNIFICANT offhealing from the DPS to survive.
    With a couple of decent healers, good positioning, and execution its pretty manageable. Sometimes my raid turns into a bunch of gorillas who don't know what "stack in the center" means, but as long as I remind them to stack for holy radiance it's not too bad.

    As for which healers to bring, it doesnt really matter much, though certain classes will struggle with different strategies. Paladin is strong due to beacon for the pheromone target, as long as your ranged can stack (paladins have a 10y range on their aoe heal). Priest was probably the strongest on average for garalon, although the spirit shell nerf may affect this.. cant remember if that was a hotfix or a 5.2 change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    For pheromones I would have one of the healers and hunter kiting with both tanks. One thing that concerns me is the tanks taking pheromones. What is the average range the pheromones transfer? And how do both tanks have to be positioned in order not to prematurely transfer pheromones? Or are there better kiters for pheromones to choose from my setup?
    We do tank>tank>mage>mage (or other mobile ranged dps if we dont have both mages available) and it generally works fine. Tank positioning is something they haev to work out between themselves, theres no "trick" to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    People not kiting should be in middle stacked with the healers (goes for the ranged)? Or should all be standing in the green damage boost circles? If we start with BL/TW and nuke all the legs down what then? Should the melee's just nuke the "inner legs", while ranged focus on the body and tanks on the front "outer leg"? Or should all be focusing on legs, like ranged on the outer legs and melee on the inner ones?
    Generally, there are a variety of strategies that work, but the biggest pointer is this > ranged do NOT kill the legs. Melee dps will gain far more dps than ranged will lose this way. Melee cleaving and dotting is far more DPE efficient. If your mage wants to spread dots, fine, multidotting is always good, but ranged should not be focusing legs.

    As to whether or not your ranged need to stack in (or near) the middle, that really depends on your healers.
    As to whether or not you should kill the "outer legs" and who should do it, it really depends on where the boss is, how many pheromone pools are in the way, etc. I'd advise you not to micromanage and just let your melee do what they think they should do, but remind them to make sure they're in range for heals as soon as they need them.
    Last edited by dennisdkramer; 2012-12-27 at 10:44 AM.

  5. #5
    i only know 3 healing.

    if you 3 heal, have all the healers kite plus a ranged or a tank.
    any combination is fine. there's no special mechanic really, so no healer is overly better than another. it's just slow and constant raid damage, with some small chunks on the tanks.

    pheromone transfer is very close, tanks can do it comfortably without passing it accidentally. we found healers kiting was very easy, as they can just heal themselves and the other 2 don't need to worry about keeping range with them.

    our ranged tend to stick to the inside, and will use the leg circles if either of the inside legs are up. melee can deal with the others. some classes might like to dot legs, even if they can't get to the circles. whatever yields the most dps for each class really. some are better at moving to and with the circles than others.


    you don't HAVE to have all the legs dead as much as possible. some classes (like a rogue) benefit way more from the legs than others. so if they can have one up to cleave off of a lot of the time, it's good for them.


    just try 3 heals, if you can't beat enrage, you will know you have to drop to 2.

    plate tanks can just dps gear and specs to soak. especially with 3 healers. dodge, block, parry etc are fairly useless, and i don't think they get much vengeance. or any plate dps, and even rogues (feint) are good soakers too.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post

    Generally, there are a variety of strategies that work, but the biggest pointer is this > ranged do NOT kill the legs. Melee dps will gain far more dps than ranged will lose this way. Melee cleaving and dotting is far more DPE efficient. If your mage wants to spread dots, fine, multidotting is always good, but ranged should not be focusing legs.
    Pretty much terrible advice. Range can jump in the circle and whack at the legs just as well. Your job isn't "ermahgerd meters" the point of the fight is killing the boss.

    Legs are worth 3% health and doesn't affect the boss' health unless they are killed. You have your static DPS against the boss (65-80k). Jump into a circle and kill a leg and you're doing 130-160k DPS. Once the leg is dead you just help kill the boss twice as fast as you would have if you would remain static and whacking on the boss.

    The idea is to kill the legs as much as possible. That's the only mechanic to the fight. So many raid leaders are butthurt on the idea that you should focus the boss and don't realize the actual mechanic of the fight.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Defaulty View Post
    Pretty much terrible advice. Range can jump in the circle and whack at the legs just as well. Your job isn't "ermahgerd meters" the point of the fight is killing the boss.

    Legs are worth 3% health and doesn't affect the boss' health unless they are killed. You have your static DPS against the boss (65-80k). Jump into a circle and kill a leg and you're doing 130-160k DPS. Once the leg is dead you just help kill the boss twice as fast as you would have if you would remain static and whacking on the boss.

    The idea is to kill the legs as much as possible. That's the only mechanic to the fight. So many raid leaders are butthurt on the idea that you should focus the boss and don't realize the actual mechanic of the fight.
    You are wrong. Most ranged lose dps when they're moving to get in a circle. If melee cleavers (especially combat rogues) don't get 100% uptime on legs because ranged nuked them down, you're actually losing raid dps.

    There is no point in killing legs faster that they respawn, you're just losing raid dps by forcing cleavers to single target the boss.

  8. #8
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    But if one of the tanks is out of the melee range, then wouldn't it be a DPS loss in general? As even w/o high vengeance tanks can do some DPS which in general would help. I like the 3 healers+hunter kiting ( I don't know how healers feel ofc). As I don't know how much DPS loss will it be for the Lock to make so that he can cast on move. But most probably it comes down to experimenting.

    TY Default for the picture.

    And tbh not trying micromanage, just ask some ideas from you guys and brought out how will try to explain it and give the other brain(s) something to discuss.

    Not garalon logs, but our full MSV run log http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/6pf695cm8pce23bd/ from last night, it should give you an idea what our DPS can do....
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2012-12-27 at 01:01 PM.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Defaulty View Post
    Pretty much terrible advice. Range can jump in the circle and whack at the legs just as well. Your job isn't "ermahgerd meters" the point of the fight is killing the boss.

    Legs are worth 3% health and doesn't affect the boss' health unless they are killed. You have your static DPS against the boss (65-80k). Jump into a circle and kill a leg and you're doing 130-160k DPS. Once the leg is dead you just help kill the boss twice as fast as you would have if you would remain static and whacking on the boss.

    The idea is to kill the legs as much as possible. That's the only mechanic to the fight. So many raid leaders are butthurt on the idea that you should focus the boss and don't realize the actual mechanic of the fight.
    This is incorrect. As far as I know, the legs respawn on a set timer, and don't respawn any faster if you kill them faster. You don't need to kill a leg OMGSUPERFAST, you just need to kill it before the next leg spawns. Imo, your best bet is putting 2 melee dps (if you have two) on the legs. As long as they are consistently killing one leg before the next leg spawns, you are at optimal dps. Your ranged dps can just stay on the boss as they usually lose dps when moving from leg to leg.

    The other thing that helped my guild get our first kill, is to not worry about some of the legs. As the boss circles the room, there are 2 inside legs facing the raid (as they stand in the center of the room basically), and 2 outside legs that are against the walls/stairs as the boss circles. On the pull, we lust and kill all 4 legs. But after that, we never again touch the outside leg behind garalon. Its a pain to get to for melee dps, often has them out of healers range, and slows you down overall. The outside front leg is slowly worked down by the tank(s). The reason for all this, is if you're only killing the inside 2 legs most of the time, then when he mends a leg, it will be an inside leg (the outside legs are alive already). This means your 2 melee dps doing legs, can just bounce between the inside legs which are much easier for them.

    Once we started doing these thigns, it became much easier. Melee dps basically has extra damage the entire fight, and the raid is mostly grouped up on the inside of garalon making life easier on the healers. Its a chaotic fight that becomes much easier as you simplify it.

    Hope this helps

  10. #10
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    I've had more success 1 tank & 3 healing this fight. Make a plate DPS soak swipes with the tank. Have tank + 1 range DPS and 2 healers (or 1 tank 3 heals) kite pheromones. DPS stand behind boss and kill 2 back legs and when those aren't up DPS boss. Your melee DPS soaking swipes will kill front legs with tank resulting in 3/4 legs at least being killed through out the fight. Your success will depend on not screwing up pheromones and the rest of your DPS being high enough to beat enrage.
    Last edited by rated; 2012-12-27 at 05:22 PM.

  11. #11
    We've both 2 healed it and 3 healed as various dps showed up on different runs. Try with 3, and if you are hitting enrage consider switching to 2 or 2.5 healers - we've downed it a few times with 2.5 healers (the half healer being a disc full time atonement or monk fistweaveing)

    It is 2 healable (did it often with pally+druid, each pulling 67k hps or more) but its definitely tighter (off heals from dps priest/shaman etc helped) - but the extra dps makes it a faster fight imo.

    As for using a plate dps to soak cleaves along with 1 tank... we tried it but i dunno, he always seemed to die to much, some guilds succeed with it, others dont. We just opted for 2 tanks. Used both tanks for kiting, along with 2 ranged dps (hunters and locks are good cause they don't loose much dps on the move) You can have a healer(s) kite instead of dps if you 3 heal it.

    1-2 melee on the legs, ranged on boss (or on a leg if its right in front of them and they don't have to move much). Once you get your kiting and passing down with no mistakes, its not that hard to handle.

  12. #12
    We 2 heal it, and just have both tanks get up to 28-30 stacks of pheromones, and a ranged dps (we use a hunter, best mobility and loses nothing) as a third kiter, this helps keep the stacks low and the raid damage less. We just kite around the edge of the room, and just the slam damage ourselves, not too much of an issue if one or two don't hit two targets.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyzz View Post
    This is incorrect. As far as I know, the legs respawn on a set timer, and don't respawn any faster if you kill them faster.
    Note I said inside legs facing the ranged, you're all fucking jumping the gun on the what I said earlier about priority. They are ranged heavy, good lord read the subject and answer the guy's question directly.
    Last edited by Defaulty; 2012-12-27 at 10:30 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Hayleigh View Post
    We 2 heal it, and just have both tanks get up to 28-30 stacks of pheromones
    Why so many stacks that's unneeded raid damage.

  15. #15
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    I will get you the logs tomorrow, but around 12% we hit the enrage with 2 healers after switching from 3 healing. So if we shuffle around the last soaker on pheromones the DPS should be bit better. Our best try was around 20k short from 515k

    Our setup
    Guardian druid/protection paladin
    resto shaman/resto druid/holy pala (he went retri for the 2 heal tries)
    rogue, lock, hunter, mage, shadowpriest

    We tried kiting with 3 healers and 1 DPS, but that didn't work out as the pheromone trail was everywhere. Prot pally showed the raid how it should be kited and after that we had lock, prot pally, guardian and other paladin as kiters. We should've used the hunter as last one, but heck. Was a good try none of the less. Switched around 20ish stacks. Switched earlier if health was low. The only drawback for a tank kiting was the fact that most of the time when tank was kiting he was out of the melee range.

    We had lot of room in the middle to move around as the pheromone trail was stacked near the edges of the arena. Few times it got bit tough as kiter and tank were too close. But I guess it is up for polishing the rest and working our DPS.

    Speaking of the legs. Ranged DPS took the legs out by standing in the green dmg boost circles, Having no leg, for tanks to DPS on, didn't seem that big of a drawback. Started with BL ofc.
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  16. #16
    Most guilds that are just now progressing to it will likely have to 2 heal/1 tank - 1 soak. Unless it's really been your healers that have been holding you back on progression more than anything.

    From experience, 2 heal + 1 soak is significantly easier to handle than 3 heal + 2 soaks (same amount of dps) due to the shear reduction on burst by having one actual tank soak. With the amount of hybrids you have though, 2 heal + 1 soak should be quite doable. It will be mostly a matter of getting used to actually using all those raid cooldowns.

    Been 2 healing this as MW+Hpal for a while now, I suggest you run MW+resto sham or rdruid asigning the rsham or rdruid to heal soaker>kiter>tank>himself leaving give or take the other 6 to be ReM+Uplift spammed. Rdruids having limited "aoe healing" makes them struggle to do the MW job as far as aoe heals goes and Rsham's Healing Rain gets kinda effy due to all the movement. In other words, unless your MW is significantly undergeared compared to the other 3, MW+anything would be preferable. Melee with 0 cleave also kinda blows for this fight (aka WW is the worse of the 3 alternative OS availible).

    If you really strugle 2 healing, then you could consider double Rdruid+MW as Rdruids are AWESOME KITER-HEALERS(shamans do decent w SWG). So you get a dps-heal-dps-heal kite rotation. You could even consider running double soak instead of tank + soak with that healing setup assigning one soak to each rdruid. If they toss is WG on CD or almost to the 6 packed dpsers, the MW should have NP taking care of the rest.

    I suggest 3 healing till the kiting is well controlled. Don't wait 'till a few enrage timer wipes to swap to 2 heal or it will feel like an all new encounter again at least to those 2 healers -_-.

    The very hard part of 2 healing is having someone capable (pref one of the healers) to monitor "when" a non-healer raid CD is needed. Assuming you run MW+Rsham for the sake of raid cd discussion, that leaves you with 4 tranqs - vamp touch - 2-3 nature's vigil (DoC is theoritical best for kitty dps but just due to encounter requirements if you 2 heal it may be wise to run NV on the feral).

    Anyway all this to say this is a LOT of cds. The common misconception is that raid cooldowns are best used after crushes from pheromone swaps. Yet the truth is, the "super mana draining part" is the last 15-30s before a swap because of the pheromones stacking. Immediately after crushes, pheromones damage tickles so the healers can just keep efficient aoe heals rotation rather than rush to pick everyone back up. As such the hard part of monitoring "when" to use a raid CD is making sure that it won't be interrupted by the crush stun (so at least 10s before a swap), or, if the health pool levels are all above 60-70%, immediately after. Devo aura from the pal should be used every time its off CD whabout 8-10s before pheromone swaps to help midigate the last high stacked ticks. Anyone with health below 60% should also use a personnal cooldown preemptively to not die from the crush burst and the follow up stun.

    As for kiting, you definitely don't want to 2 tank it in 10m. Elite groups could afford it because the quality of their DPSers could overcome the rough enrage timer. Personnally I raid with old friends, some people are ex "elitists" others not and we HAD to go down to 2 heal + 1 soak for our first couple of kills. Now we do it just out of habit. Thus (back to kiting) you could have the tank+3 ranged (if you 2 heal) or tank + 2 heals + 1 range (if you 3 heal). Tank kiting is somewhat tricky and can kinda mess up the room, especially if all 4 legs are down as he litterally needs to pain wide rather than long to remain within swipe range.

    As to what dps should/could kite in your setup
    hunter=>affl lock=>ele>boomkin>shadow priest
    (figure id take a min to say affliction rapes destro by miles on this encounter)

    I believe pheromones transfer is 5 yards but there is some weird behavior with it (I believe someone correct me if I'm wrong) only attempting to swap on ticks thus sometimes it feels like it's just not switching. The worse is moving out and back in only to find out it was swapped, then you get crushed atop one another and the stun lasts long enough for a "swap back" between the 2 targets leading to crushes back to back (to back since you will want to give it back to the target w low stack). This takes sometime to get used to swap properly so I recommend making your regular core kiting such that the learning curve on that gets passed quickly. Cough kiters with a mic and able to talk is awesome.

    People not kiting should be somewhat stacked, excepted melee (esp those w natural cleaves) who should run around the 2 inside leg and the BACK outside leg. Front outside leg should be that of the tank (when not kiting pheromones) and the dps soaker if he is comfortable with the positionning.

    I find the "best" positionning, from MW standpoint is roughly melee range of the main body closer to the inside front leg. It gets me range on 9/10 (all but kiter) in case of emergency and it is great if people regroup around that, within 20ish yards of boss at least such that also, the healer(s) further ahead to heal the pheromones kiters can also reach them.

    When the tank is kiting, he shouldn't bother dpsing, just try to stand 15-20 yards ahead of the purple line "straight in front". His main job at this point is staring at the soakers' movement to always keep at least 10 yards ahead while kiting. The soaker should be either straight in front within 5-8 yards of the purple zone or sightly off to the side such that he can cleave from the outside front leg when it's up (proper positionning to get expose weakness AND eat the swipes takes some iterations).

    As for general leg killing, beyond the opener, range should only "hard swap" to a leg if 2 are up and are taking too long to die. In general, just have dot class dot cleave the legs and have melee with those natural cleaves handle the rest.


    All I can think for now and good luck, this encounter is quite a casual blocker at the moment. Both the healing AND the dps requirements are very steep such that unless you have a few "elite" players as the backbone of your casual core, it can be a long and tedious iterative process to kill it.
    Last edited by Deau; 2012-12-28 at 03:00 AM.

  17. #17
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    As for people we use, it will depend who is available. For last night MW sat out for the paladin and other rdruid couldn't come so we ended up with rshaman, hpala and rdruid.
    But our fixed raiders are lock, shadowpriest (no healing OS), guardian(feral os), prot. pala(questionable ret OS with tank gear), rshaman (ench/ele OS), rogue, rdruid(balance OS), mw (ww OS) and then it will be a choice between mage, hunter, 2x hpala (both have ret OS), rdruid (balance os), balance druid (no viable OS). And we cannot be very picky on the people as most times we have 10 ppl and no room for selection. It will greatly depend who is available for certain evening and who is not.

    As I promised here are the logs.

    The longest attempts:
    3 healing - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8...?s=9215&e=9641
    2 healing - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8...s=9920&e=10345

    On the 2 healing part ignore the rets DPS as his gear for retri is shit (also he had to move out of melee range), due it being his OS. Warlock, when he kited, got out of the range couple of times. If I noticed correctly the priest stood in the green circle. But for the rest of the DPS and healer, I honestly have no idea about the rest, cause while hugging the wall and kiting and just trying to avoid the bloody purple circle when an extra sharp turn is made takes all the focus away from rest of the raid (at least for now until it becomes easy as dancing with the emperor).

    We at first had druid - shaman - lock - paladin (holy) as kiters, but every time the resto started out, it didn't work as he had to made too sharp turns in the beginning. When we had our lock start he put his teleportation stuff in the middle of the stair and as soon as he got Pheromones he ported away.

    The lock got out of his DPS range probably due to boss moving too slowly and the pheromone trail was already too far ahead from the boss. I know that 2 tanks kiting is not the best option, but to say honestly (and if any of my raiders reads this, no offense intended), but lock, me (guradian), prot pala are the ones who have figured it out properly and in most times don't panic when something goes wrong. So most probably we will keep 2 tanks+lock as kiters and either have the hunter or one healer kiting. I know that rest of the raider possible could do the kiting part as well or at least practice/learn it, but I honestly see no point in having them giving it a go, when 3 kiters know what to do.

    Starting from the middle and moving to the corner as Defaulty showed is not working for us. As the turns need to be made the positioning will make the boss to do too sharp turns for the tank to reach the Swipe. We tried it last nigh as well. Was an horrible idea for us. So we chose to to start from the middle of the entrance as that would give people to get the legs down with BL and slow his movement when Lock hit the corner so he doesn't have to make really sharp turns or move too far too fast.

    Shaman tends to panic a bit too much sometimes, so he is not a good kiter. The rdruid will probably get killed if they don't time pheromone switch properly in the CD of Swipe (as swipe hurts none tanks too much). I know that rogue+prot.pala are good soakers, but tbh I would give the rogue opportunity to be on any leg what is up, so she can do her cleaves not just sit in front of the boss and look bored when no legs are up. I doubt that if I go feral soaking I would outlive it.

    Last night was probably my bad call, that I zoned out that paladin - good kiter (as ret or holy with plate gear has good chnces of out living (in the end stamina flask helped the pala a bit), since the 4th kiter was taking Pheromones from a tank. But a hunter with better mobility could've done the same job. And well the hunter could've popped deterrence when Furious Swipe was inc (as that what on most tries kept hurting/killing the h/ret pala).

    In general by the last few pulls we had the kiting set, the 4th kiter was bit of iffy, but he did his job well. So now we have to work on doing more DPS and we should (hopefully with bit more practice) get the kill. If I will have the hunter kiting as 4th.

    Thank you for the very detailed post Deau.
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2012-12-28 at 06:54 AM.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished ||Proud RL of 25-man 7/14 HC PUG
    Moderator of R & D | Open Raid

  18. #18
    The reason you let Healers/Hunters kite is that you don't lose any DPS on the boss. Also kiting is not hard once you tried it a few times, you can see when you have to run to avoid swipes. We had the problem that our second kiter would get hit by swipes aswell, so we made a hunter the second kiter, he waits one swipe (can dodge the first one) and then disengages to the back of the room. Communication is key, kiters have to run sometimes and the soakers need to be on their game.

    You don't ever let melee DPS kite if you have an alternative. The DPS loss is what prevented you from killing it. Honestly, kiting is not rocket science and fairly easy to learn. Hunters and healers (the latter only when 3 healing ofc) are athe best for kiting and if they don't want to learn an easy role that helps you kill the boss, your raid has issues.

    Another little thing we did is when the boss reached 20%, we would swap the debuff once more and then just let that person kite until the kill. The damage from crush and the DPS loss can be very devistating. Just stack up, use personal and Raid CDs and kill every leg in range.

  19. #19
    Your rogue is very low dps; make sure there is always a leg for him available. He is not combat specced for this fight; wtf? -> combat -> profit.
    You could 1tank it and have a plate dps to soak with the tank.
    For kiting there is a nice trick; simply switch on walking instead of the standard running and your timing for the pheromone trail will be perfect and your kiters don't have to concentrate on the movement anymore.

  20. #20
    We recently switched from 25 to 10man and had some issues with Garalon as well 3 healing we ran into the enrage. Our setup is fairly similar to yours.
    Our last kill: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/b...?s=3005&e=3404
    Resto druid heals the tanks + kiter while our holy pally heals the raid. We used the resto druid + 4 ranged to kite so a little less pheromone stacks then with 4 kiters. We have 165k hps compared to your 182 hps so not sure it's that big of a difference.but might help.
    Your rogue should be combat and push a bit more dps and if the legs die too fast I just tell the ranged to chill a bit so I can cleave more. Tanks should be able to push more dps have the ranged kiting imo.

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