Thread: No flying 5.2

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  1. #181
    People flew all over outland in BC, people always engaged in world pvp at Halaa and in Hellfire. The issue has nothing to do with flying mounts and everything to do with players wanting to world pvp, places with real objectives to world pvp in, and real rewards coming from the effort.

  2. #182
    Location: PVE Server (US-Perenolde)

    Flying vs. PVP aside, I cannot understand for a moment the PVE crowd here complaining about having to kill mobs to achieve their goals. Part of the challenge of completing dailies is dealing with the Environment in PVE. If they follow the logic some on here suggest, we might as well be mailed the rewards after accepting the quest. After all, why should we have to do anything to earn stuff in game, right?

    Ugh, I think I need a vacation from the forums, because this level of communication breakdown and entitlement is childish.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Drithiend View Post
    I disagree. Mists was designed clearly as a first step to taking things on the ground once more.

    You can't fly until you get to level 90, and depending on your performance that may take several zones to do so. What is more a lot of variety as to where to quest is offered. That means that almost all the zones in Pandaria have been designed so a player can play in them without being able to fly.

    That takes a lot of work. Work that an entire developing team won't commit to, to satisfy just one person's opinion. Especially Ghostcrawler's who is not the one responsible for questing and world design, his priorities are things like the UI. This is an opinion shared by most of the developing team. It's the only way it would ever make it into the game. Ghostcrawler was just the one that transfered that message to the community.

    And anyway, flying won't go away most probably, which is not even this thread's focus. At most, it will partially be available in new content. New content as in next expansion. For instance, some zones will allow it and some won't. So both flying and ground mounts will be of use. Why is it that people almost always refer to the excesses of a concept, when most of what actually happens is somehwere in the middle? Is being a drama queen so enticing? (not directed that the person I quoted but a general observation looking at this and similar threads about almost everything)
    You can't disagree that it was his personal opinion and not the official Blizzard stance. Read his tweet. He says PERSONALLY

    https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...39411524182016

  4. #184
    I dont know where this ideal of forced open world pvp on pve servers on the island thing is coming from. I have read many articles on PTR thunder isle experiences and none of them mention open world PVP, none the less on a PVE server.

    If you don't want to do PVP you don't have to unless you are already on a PVP server. If you are on a PVP server then you are okay with PVP.

  5. #185
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edlarel View Post
    Location: PVE Server (US-Perenolde)

    Flying vs. PVP aside, I cannot understand for a moment the PVE crowd here complaining about having to kill mobs to achieve their goals. Part of the challenge of completing dailies is dealing with the Environment in PVE. If they follow the logic some on here suggest, we might as well be mailed the rewards after accepting the quest. After all, why should we have to do anything to earn stuff in game, right?

    Ugh, I think I need a vacation from the forums, because this level of communication breakdown and entitlement is childish.
    It's more like, why shouldn't we be able to use our hard earned flying mounts?

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    I'm not sure where I'm trying to state my opinions as facts, but ok. If you say so.

    At any rate, while there certainly is room for personal opinion in what someone finds fun and what isn't fun, there are also things which are proven to be generally good game design choices. Flying mounts and what they entail is not one of them. Or well, they were back in TBC, when they were expensive and only given at the very end of your journey. But now that they're an expected part of your repetoire from a relatively early point of your journey through the game, they're pretty terrible.

    Essentially, games (and RPGs in particular) are about gaining power. Journeying through the world, struggling against enemies, getting stronger as a result. One of the rewards for your struggles is the power gain itself, and the relative strength you now have against those foes you struggled against previously. It's rewarding to be able to go back and destroy the enemies who gave you a hard time previously. On a similar note, flying works into this by being the reward for struggling through on foot at first. Instead of taking ages to travel, you can now fly over everything with ease. Great!

    Except now, you get rewarded with flying far too early, at level 60. 1-59 really doesn't take long. So now, instead of being a reward, it's an expected part of the game. Except in this form, flying doesn't work, because it removes a lot of the struggle, a lot of the challenge which makes RPGs and games in general so compelling and interesting. It's just flying from point A to point B, doing a bit of fighting, then flying to point C, etc.

    So Blizzard replicate the 'reward for reaching the end of your journey' by taking away flying until you reach the new level cap. Then there you go, you're rewarded. That works. But then, level 90 isn't the end of our journey, is it? There's still plenty of progression to go, daily quests to do, etc.

    So they're removed again for these new dailies. They'll probably keep getting removed whenever Blizzard feel able. Because flying mounts are, honestly, a terrible game design decision.
    You said the game is better when you can't fly. That's a personal opinion stated as a fact. This post that I just quoted is chocked full of the same.

  7. #187
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I dont know where this ideal of forced open world pvp on pve servers on the island thing is coming from. I have read many articles on PTR thunder isle experiences and none of them mention open world PVP, none the less on a PVE server.
    That's not the issue for PVE servers, the fact that we can't fly for no reason (other than blizz catering for PVP servers and pissing off the PVE server population) is.

    Tbh, they should remove all PVP gear and gear vendors from PVE servers. Then the people who care so much about PVP will be forced to transfer to a PVP server and PVErs can celebrate and rejoice.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Edlarel View Post
    Location: PVE Server (US-Perenolde)

    Flying vs. PVP aside, I cannot understand for a moment the PVE crowd here complaining about having to kill mobs to achieve their goals. Part of the challenge of completing dailies is dealing with the Environment in PVE. If they follow the logic some on here suggest, we might as well be mailed the rewards after accepting the quest. After all, why should we have to do anything to earn stuff in game, right?

    Ugh, I think I need a vacation from the forums, because this level of communication breakdown and entitlement is childish.
    Unlike f______... doing the same thing time after time after time for 1h daily is boring.

    There is just too much mob to navigate to the objective without spending 20 minutes killing unrelated NPCs.
    Last edited by ipaq; 2013-01-11 at 04:38 PM.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Incorrect. The questing experience from 85-90 is designed for ground mounts, the end game is designed for flying. If it was completely designed for ground mounts then there would be a southern, eastern and western (an open western gate) gate to get to the zones conveinantly without having to go way around through 2 other zones in order to get to them. The questing zones are built this way so you can experience the lore storyline sequentially instead of just flying to the dread wastes. Jade Forest -> 4 winds -> A. Karasang wilds, B. Misty steppes -> Boat tunnel -> Kun Lai -> Townlong -> Dread wastes, also known as level 85 zone -> 86 -> 87 ->88 ->89 ->flying! If they wanted you to ground mount everywhere then Skyrange would be accessable from the ground.
    It would help if you read what I wrote more carefully. I did write that most, not all of the content is designed so that you can do it while on the ground. Dailies and some areas are designed to be played through with flying mounts. Which is the endgame, along with raiding, which includes no mounts. So, you basically disagree with what I said and then state the same thing...

  10. #190
    Lets vanquish this ideal that mop was completely designed for ground mounts. ALL Tillers dailies require a flying mount to get to Skyrange Hozen area or the cliffs between 4 winds and Valley Verman burrow areas which can NOT be accessed by ground mounts. The Shado Pan Dailies where you go to the island to smoke bomb Manted buildings, they all -require- a flying mount to get to. The Golden Lotus Dailies require a flying mount to get on the Spine wall to kill Mantid and fire cannons unless you want to run way out to Kun Lai and down a wall section that has faction guards guarding flight points that will flag you for pvp when you run by. There is an August Celestial daily where you have to fight a Red Crane fighter on top of one of the temples/pagodas that can only be accessed by a flying mount. There is a Golden Lotus Daily that requires you to fly up the cliff and fight a water elemental which is unaccessable from the land.

    There is a Pet trainer inbetween Kun Lai and Eternal Blossoms which can only be accessed by flying.

    I am sure there are tons more places that are only accessable with flying.

  11. #191
    Warchief Byniri's Avatar
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    I'm completely fine with this.
    PEPE SILVA, PEPE SILVA

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    It's more like, why shouldn't we be able to use our hard earned flying mounts?
    Pretty much this. Every expansion, we pay gold to yet again be able to fly. This time around, it's 2500G. Then multiplied by 11.

    Not to mention the coin dropped to get epic flying. Again, multiplied by 11.

    And then, no-fly daily hubs for the current content so you can slog through tedious trash mobs to get the actual quest mobs that you have to grind to get whatever boar liver or bear ass we need for daily # 234412.

    We don't all play on a PvP server, so WPvP is a foreign concept many of us couldn't give a fuck about.

  13. #193
    Herald of the Titans Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    In other words you became part of the problem...not that I blame you really, just stating the facts. PvP imbalance did not become a problem because Blizzard wouldn't merge realms. It became a problem because human nature results in a tendency for people to migrate to the stronger faction, and in WoW the moment, the stronger faction is the faction with more members (this is actually where Blizzard are at fault).

    Even if Blizzard merged realms to achieve faction balance, one side would still be marginally stronger than the other, and human nature would soon result in the faction balance skewing again. It is, in engineering terms, an inherently unstable system that will tend to imbalance with time.



    That is pretty harsh. It is never reasonable to expect someone to move servers because of something that happened which is no fault of their own.

    Obviously server imbalance, especially on a PvP realm is a problem. Having balanced numbers between factions is the ideal situation for everyone involved. Dealing with the problem means changing the system so that server imbalance is no longer the natural outcome of that system.

    You can't change human nature. But Blizzard can change the way the game reacts to server imbalance in such a way that faction desirability no longer scales up with faction size. In fact you want the two to be inversely proportional - the less people you have on your faction, relative to the opposition, the better it should be for you. Human nature will do the rest and most servers will soon have faction balance sitting at close to 50/50.

    So really, all Blizzard need to do is put stuff into the game which gives players on the underdog faction a distinct advantage:

    eg1: Put a tenacity type buff that functions by looking at how many maximum level characters are online for each faction, and then dynamically buff the faction with the lower population. If alliance outnumber horde 10:1 on your server, then expect to need 10 alliance to take down 1 horde in a PvP confrontation.

    eg2: Make certain scarce resources on the server faction specific. If horde outnumber alliance 10:1 on a server then expect horde to require 10 times more effort to obtain said resource. Hell, maybe even scale the cost of Honor/Justice/Conquest/Valor items with population ratios (to mimic real life supply and demand issues).


    TL;DR: All I am saying is don't blame people who refuse to move to the more populous faction for their situation. And if you are going to blame Blizzard, at least try and understand the problem and offer a good solution of what they can do to rectify this.
    I'm sorry, didn't mean to sound harsh. I may have put it the wrong way, but that'd be because i've been feeling bad for days.
    All i meant is that, as long as Blizzard doesn't do anything for those specific realms, all i could do was leave. I tried to reroll on another realm, it just wasn't the same.
    I tried carrying on with the former character, but it was frustrating, Horde could come and kill me anytime.

    I should have not said you DESERVE to be ganked, but if you stay, you know the risks; that was what i meant.

  14. #194
    What? Ground mount!!! OMG!?!?!?!? They have to remove it.

    And ports...

    And summons...

    And summoning stones...

    And heartstones...

    And running. OMG.

    It only takes 1h25m WALKING from SW to IF using the roads... and now is what I call fun!

    PS: And yes I timed it a few weeks ago.

  15. #195
    BRB REROLLING ROGUE!!! hahahahahah!

  16. #196
    Herald of the Titans Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ipaq View Post
    It only takes 1h25m WALKING from SW to IF using the roads... and now is what I call fun!

    PS: And yes I timed it a few weeks ago.
    Looks like you were really bored.
    And yes, you are my hero.

  17. #197
    Pit Lord velde046's Avatar
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    Don't care if there's flying there, it's small enough for ground mount and I'm on PVE realm so no worry about ganking...

  18. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Neither am I. There are TONS of players that perform much better than me.

    I suggest you read my post again. I merely mocked your statement that back in the day CC wasn't a problem. Just believe me when I say that the problems and causes for wipes in dungeons were the same in TBC as they were in Cata.

    It's just absurd to say that all BC players didn't have problems with BC.

    You know how I learned to CC?
    I was instagibbed by Moroes Add in Karazhan (2nd Boss) because I let my shackle run out. After that, the add ran rampage and wiped the raid.
    Yeah I learned it the hard way through flames and repair bills.

    The problem is that Blizzard opened Pandoras Box with Wraths easiness. They overdid it, the community got used to it. And if they try to implement harder stuff (See cata dungeons) the people rather bitch and moan for nerfs instead of looking at "what did I wrong and how can I fix it". The attitude of the playerbase has changed completely.

    Challenge is no longer something they want to grow on, it's just a nuisance on their way to the next purple.
    Okay that sounds better
    As for your bad experience with CC, I had a good one though. As you know, we didn't have LFD back then, and had to group up with server people. Now I admit, that my experience was probably also influenced with the choice of people. The vast amount of runs I had with people I knew.
    And Kara, yes. Would have mentioned that too. I'm pretty sure who frequently raided knew how to properly CC.
    The 5 mans required it, and so did the raids. Moroes shines here, yes. Hunters if they didn't already know it, there they learned to trap kite.

    I know opinions vary, but for myself, I liked those times better.

  19. #199
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Oh boy. How many more times must we get into the Flying Mounts argument. They've been here since BC. Why do people suddenly have an abnormal hatred of them? I love flying mounts.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron Big fanboy of Yrel now. Love her now

  20. #200
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    Oh neat I get to kill people well sorta anyway my realm doesn't have much ally haha

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 04:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron View Post
    Oh boy. How many more times must we get into the Flying Mounts argument. They've been here since BC. Why do people suddenly have an abnormal hatred of them? I love flying mounts.
    EZ - OH MY GOD IT RUINS WORLD PVPPPPPPPPPPP
    - OMGGGG IT RUINS THE EXPERIENCE OF TEH GAMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

    No really that's literally the summery of it on multiple forums.

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