Thread: No flying 5.2

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  1. #321
    Dreadlord glowzone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theendgamelv3 View Post
    If people don't have the will power, that is their fault.
    I agree, I don't really care that others can fly, apart from pvp, wich atm I don't really have a shortage off, it doesn't effect me.
    This doesn't however, change that in my eyes it's bad design.

    If I as a gamedesigner (wich I am, no bigshot, just hobbyist) add a rocketlauncher in the first level, wich can make the whole game a brease, it's bad design, I do not get off the hook by saying "the player can chose not to use it",bad example maybe, but you get the point.

    I'm not trying to remove flying mounts or force my rules on others, I'm just trying to explain why in my eyes it was a bad design choice, they could've made their content without flying mounts in mind and things would be better in my eyes.

    But it's just an opinion, I'm aware of that.
    Last edited by glowzone; 2013-01-11 at 11:14 PM.

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by glowzone View Post
    I agree, I don't really care that others can fly, apart from pvp, wich atm I don't really have a shortage off, it doesn't effect me.
    This doesn't however, change that in my eyes it's bad design.

    If I as a gamedesigner (wich I am, no bigshot, just hobbyist) add a rocketlauncher in the first level, wich can make the whole game a brease, it's bad design, I do not get off the hook by saying "the player can chose not to use it",bad example maybe, but you get the point.

    I'm not trying to remove flying mounts or force my rules on others, I'm just trying to explain why in my eyes it was a bad design choice, they could've made their content without flying mounts in mind and things would be better in my eyes.

    But it's just an opinion, I'm aware of that.
    I agree a rocket launcher at first level is bad design in general. With that said, if flying was available at level 1 in WoW, that is bad design for WoW. Could have they made content without flying in mind, yea, but they didn't and haven't since Vanilla. With that said, you still don't fly for majority of levels. For 65 levels, you don't fly. I like what Blizzard is doing, you don't fly til 90. This way you still go through the content on the ground in a meaningful manner.

  3. #323
    Dreadlord Manabomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glowzone View Post
    This is quite a circular arguement unless I missed something "dailies are suppose to increase the time" and "flying mounts are suppose to make it take less time."Surely you can just design the dailies without flying mounts in mind, like they most likely will on this isle.
    Except you continue to misconstrue my point. Dailies are designed to make the reputations as a whole last longer as an alternative to having to create quests to level the factions from hated-exalted in a single day or repeatable rep turn ins that make said faction complete-able in a day.

    Flying mounts are designed with dailies in mind to reduce the amount of time it takes to finish the dailies per day. Essentially it's increasing the amount of time it takes to finish the rep on the whole, but reduces the amount of time it takes to finish them per day. Making dailies on a island with no flying is counter-intuitive to the whole point and structure to the flying mount daily symbiosis.

    I'm not saying that they have failed in the past with ground mount only daily hubs. On the contrary IQD was one of the most popular daily hubs in the same expansion both features were introduced. However over time things like Molten Front, Tol Barad, the pve aspects of Wintergrasp on the whole have become more of a thorn in the side rather than amazing and compelling content because once again, dailies are very much akin to chores.
    Reduce- Iconic class abilities, complexity and meaningful rotations, usefulness of any one class in a raid group
    Reuse- A continent from 3 expansions ago, a story arch from 3 games ago, characters that would otherwise be dead
    Recycle- A beaten to death plot-line, the nostalgia goggles for TBC, bossfight mechanics that make patchwerk seem complex
    The three R's of Warlords of Draenor and that doesn't even mention flying, #savekarabor, blizzard store, tier to tier ilvl skips.

  4. #324
    The Lightbringer Seezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Damn straight!
    So glad I made the choice to migrate back in June.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 12:41 PM ----------



    How is it a PvE nerf?
    Raid Bosses get a debuff when they look out the window and see an army of dragon mounts coming at them.
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  5. #325
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    I would be ok with no-flying if they A) allowed ALL mounts to be used while on the ground, and B) allowed for the swift movement speed on the ground (Although that would be silly on normal ground mounts). Huh, I guess maybe just A.

    As for CRZ, Im hoping that Pandaria will NEVER undergo CRZ. CRZ is one of the least-thought out decisions by blizz to "combat" something that can easily be fixed by realm merging.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
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  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by zshikara View Post

    disclaimer: I don't care at all about wpvp. I want the removal of flying mounts for pve reasons.
    What exactly about Flying mounts effects PvE? You can fly over daily mobs that would probably dismount you and you waste an ungodly amount of time killing things?

  7. #327
    Dreadlord glowzone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkpower View Post
    You have any idea how quickly you made my brain hurt by making that your very next thing you wrote?
    The reason it doesn't matter is because we're talking about two totally diffrent kinds of travel, going anywhere you like is not the same as being able to fly to certain points on the map, that should be pretty obvious.



    Quote Originally Posted by darkpower View Post
    Which is part of the argument that the pro-flying mount people (like me) are saying about WoW!
    But these are flight paths, flying mounts are not the same thing, surely you can see that.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkpower View Post
    One, flight PADS? I think you mean flight PATHS, which have existed since Vanilla.
    Grammer police, classy, I spelled it right allot of times, I'm sorry if you find it so annoying it bothers you, it's quite sad to point out really.
    Quote Originally Posted by darkpower View Post
    How are they questionable, second of all?
    I already went over this in one of my posts, they are questionable because they don't have any interaction from the player while traveling, boats and zepelins allow you to do SOMETHING, heck you might even get into a fight with another player, but you can work on profs or whatnot while on a boat or zep.



    Quote Originally Posted by darkpower View Post
    Which, if you pay attention in WoW, you still have to do. You don't get to use mounts at all indoors in, say, raids or 5 mans, and in outdoor instances, only ground mounts. So yeah, you're actually objecting to something that doesn't happen anyway.
    Sure some quests are in a cave or in a big building , but these are in the minorities.
    I don't remember in ff or skyrim to EVER land kill and travel away, there might be something in skyrim I don't remember, but it surely wasn't the way things normally went.
    Quote Originally Posted by darkpower View Post
    And more to the point, look at what could happen if you should land in the WRONG place. Keep in mind the volume of mobs that can inhabit any one place. You could just as easily land right into a mind field. It's not like every single place you can land is a place you SHOULD land. Of course, not saying that every place that this can happen would be that dangerous seeing as how you can outlevel some zones, but if you're doing things like the Golden Lotus dailies or farming (something else you're failing to address in this argument), then you have to be careful you're not going to aggro a ton of mobs that can dismount you and then overwhelm you (especially if you're currently in a spec that's not ready to handle it, such as a Resto Shammy...for whatever Godforsaken reason you'd have to do ANYTHING other than do instanced content in any healing spec).
    If you have any reasonable reactiontime, your flying mount is in the air before any melee mob can hit you, so no, landing in a dangerous spot is not an issue, dismounting might be, but you're not going to do that unless you got a good spot anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by darkpower View Post
    Only, we are, as you explain below in the second case of you contradicting yourself in the very next sentence.
    We're talking about a daily area in this topic, you do not outlevel this. What questing are you doing in low level zones? You might be leveling profs or doing loremaster, but this isn't standard play at all. But yes you're right, if I walk into strangethorn, I won't be getting any "epic quests" no matter if I use a flying mount or not, don't see why you bring up something so obvious.


    Quote Originally Posted by darkpower View Post
    You're assuming that every single person that plays WoW plays on a PvP server, which you just showed why you REALLY want them gone with that statement. You're asking for a nerf because you can't exactly kill lowbies who can simply fly away, huh? Bitch about nerfs to raid content yet want them to do shit like that. Makes sense.
    Personal attacks,classy, I don't even want flying mounts gone at this point, I said it was a bad choice whene they made said choice.
    If you cannot see the diffrence, well to bad.

    Also, I think I know how I play better thene you, I do not gank lowbies, thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by darkpower View Post
    Which you just said you had a yet unnamed problem with, which means that you don't want there to be ANY other way than to be grounded when traveling somewhere a thousandth time.
    I did, just not in your post, I don't like repeating myself to many times, only a reasonable amount of times, and as I pointed out, the problem with flying paths is that they aren't interactive, wich is a diffrent problem, but a problem non the less, this isn't a problem with skyrim or ff, since these versions are instant, flying paths are not instant. Instants aren't perfect eighter, wich is why I prefer the boats etc, but these can't be used everywhere, I understand blizz has to make compromises.


    Quote Originally Posted by darkpower View Post
    Then you forgot that you just wrote something that, in effect, argues that some removal of something is needed. Which tells me that you really don't know what you're talking about and are just trying to jump on a bandwagon.
    Travel is indeed needed, flight paths, while not ideal, allow travel, I don't see the point in what you said here, I never said that travel in games was a bad idea, just because I pointed out flight paths have design flaws too, does not mean I think they are a bad idea.

    Also finally, do not make stupid points like claiming I'm a lowbie ganker, thanks.

  8. #328
    Mechagnome Serenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glowzone View Post
    If you don't want flying removed I find you have every reason to say so.
    But if you do not like getting ganked and this is your reason, it's simply a bad reason.

    Since you DID chose the wrong server type. You having no idea what eighter ment is no excuse, it's selfish, it's wanting the world to be safer because you didn't have a clue that you picked the dangerous one, and thene calling the people who like the dangerous world "pathetic".

    Do not go into the wrong server type and thene judge the people who picked the right one, it's "pathetic", as you would say.
    Want more reasons to not have flying removed? I don't want to fight a ton of mobs to get to my raid EVERY TIME I have to go there (which is quite often). I don't want to get ganked too, yeah that's another reason. One more reason is I prefer to spend my time wrapping up all the jobs I have and being effective in raid while not having to spend 2 hours on something because 3-4 horde guys decided to gank me. I'm not selfish, I just ask for the option to fly, no one forced YOU or anyone else that loves PvP to get on flying mounts, use your ground mounts and stop the crap (Everyone takes the easy way, I call that WEAK WILLPOWER). Well maybe the ppl who want flying removed are a bunch of whiners and a minority of the wow community found only in the forums. It's not about not wanting to do something with other players, it's having the freedom to do what I LIKE. When you choose server it doesn't say "You will get ganked mercilessly to the point you will logout", does it? By removing flying mounts you take away from me the freedom to do what I like (PVE), while you AREN'T FORCED IN AN PvE INSTANCE whether you are in a PvP or a PvE server. Who said I want to be ganked by you so you can have fun... I don't ruin others good time to have fun and I expect the same treatment, whether it's a PvE or a PvP server. Learn what selfish and freedom means and then reply to me. Until then pick your 1-2 friends that want to use ground mounts and wpvp with them (Doubt there are more).
    Last edited by Serenia; 2013-01-11 at 11:50 PM.

  9. #329
    Dreadlord glowzone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    Except you continue to misconstrue my point. Dailies are designed to make the reputations as a whole last longer as an alternative to having to create quests to level the factions from hated-exalted in a single day or repeatable rep turn ins that make said faction complete-able in a day.

    Flying mounts are designed with dailies in mind to reduce the amount of time it takes to finish the dailies per day. Essentially it's increasing the amount of time it takes to finish the rep on the whole, but reduces the amount of time it takes to finish them per day. Making dailies on a island with no flying is counter-intuitive to the whole point and structure to the flying mount daily symbiosis.

    I'm not saying that they have failed in the past with ground mount only daily hubs. On the contrary IQD was one of the most popular daily hubs in the same expansion both features were introduced. However over time things like Molten Front, Tol Barad, the pve aspects of Wintergrasp on the whole have become more of a thorn in the side rather than amazing and compelling content because once again, dailies are very much akin to chores.
    But these small quest zones where you can't fly are so small, that doing dailies surely can't take any longer thene flying in the bigger zones.
    Blizzard's not dumb, they aren't making these ground zones huuuuge, with mountains in the way.

    I can understand wanting flying mounts for the dailies in the leveling zones, but these zones are designed to be easy to traverese on foot, firelands daily hub was hilariously packed with dailies in a small area that took like what, a minute to traverse on a groundmount?

    Why are these no fly zones a thorn in their sides thene? Surely noone is going to complain about travel time in the firelands zone, neighter IQD or the likes, the place is just to small.

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Luxuries aren't necessities.

    @Yogg-Saron It doesn't take much to realize that flying mounts kill off a lot more gameplay aspects than they add in their current form.
    It COULD lead to more game play. I, for one, would love to see in flight jousting.

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by glowzone View Post
    Why are these no fly zones a thorn in their sides thene? Surely noone is going to complain about travel time in the firelands zone, neighter IQD or the likes, the place is just to small.
    Thing is, no one is saying they ARE! They just get sick to death of seeing this argument come up every single time. No one complained about them doing that until someone started a thread saying "I hope this is a sign they will get completely removed" that began the bitch fest about people complaining about a non-issue.
    I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flap-jaw space, with the tuning fork, does a raw blink on Hari-Kari rock! I need scissors! 61!

  12. #332
    The way flying is currently implemented, it hurts gameplay by shortening the current content's shelf-life. Being able to fly in and drop straight down on your target, whether it be a mob or node, is lame gameplay. If flying mechanics were more complicated, and if mob packs had more air defenses, then we'd see some compelling flight-driven gameplay. But as of now, flight is a convenience that hurts gameplay.

  13. #333
    Dreadlord Manabomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glowzone View Post
    But these small quest zones where you can't fly are so small, that doing dailies surely can't take any longer thene flying in the bigger zones.
    Blizzard's not dumb, they aren't making these ground zones huuuuge, with mountains in the way.

    I can understand wanting flying mounts for the dailies in the leveling zones, but these zones are designed to be easy to traverese on foot, firelands daily hub was hilariously packed with dailies in a small area that took like what, a minute to traverse on a groundmount?

    Why are these no fly zones a thorn in their sides thene? Surely noone is going to complain about travel time in the firelands zone, neighter IQD or the likes, the place is just to small.
    Yet we have because they just could have easily made flying enabled on these zones or even more made these zones like the rest of the large daily zones. They are needlessly complicating a mechanic of the game purely for the sake of nostalgia and wpvp influences.

    Also some people would argue being forced into ground mounting again after ground mounting from 1-60 and 85-90 is like getting full set of 496's and being told you can only use one of them despite the other pieces sitting in your bags. It's a removal of power and a frustrating inconvenience for those who do dailies as they are intended as pure chores and wish to do other fun things in this game.
    Reduce- Iconic class abilities, complexity and meaningful rotations, usefulness of any one class in a raid group
    Reuse- A continent from 3 expansions ago, a story arch from 3 games ago, characters that would otherwise be dead
    Recycle- A beaten to death plot-line, the nostalgia goggles for TBC, bossfight mechanics that make patchwerk seem complex
    The three R's of Warlords of Draenor and that doesn't even mention flying, #savekarabor, blizzard store, tier to tier ilvl skips.

  14. #334
    Sounds fun though my guild is on a pve server so I miss out on the fun

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    Yet we have because they just could have easily made flying enabled on these zones or even more made these zones like the rest of the large daily zones. They are needlessly complicating a mechanic of the game purely for the sake of nostalgia and wpvp influences.

    Also some people would argue being forced into ground mounting again after ground mounting from 1-60 and 85-90 is like getting full set of 496's and being told you can only use one of them despite the other pieces sitting in your bags. It's a removal of power and a frustrating inconvenience for those who do dailies as they are intended as pure chores and wish to do other fun things in this game.
    I don't think there's any use convincing some of these people no matter how many times you prove to them otherwise or how many good reasons you put out there. Some of them just want the attention and see how much of it they can get, no matter how fail their argument tends to be.

    For example, the person you're responding to. Look how many times he's contradicted himself or has said that he mentioned something he never did until we called him out on it.

    This is just like every other thing people bitch about in WoW that Blizz never listens to. Hell, I bet the reason why GC even said that is because he sees the constant barrage of people rambling all day bitching over stupid shit like this. No wonder the Blues on the official forums get chips on their shoulders sometimes when this is all they ever hear.
    I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flap-jaw space, with the tuning fork, does a raw blink on Hari-Kari rock! I need scissors! 61!

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by glowzone View Post
    To get the epic set you just have to bother doing your weekly wins, wich doesn't take long at all.
    The only easier thing would be buying it from a vendor for gold.
    Or getting it for free in the mail.
    LFR = You always get something. Gear Gold whatever.
    Arena = You never get anything if you lose.

    Huge difference. Easy to lose Arena. Impossible to lose LFR.

  17. #337
    Dreadlord glowzone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenia View Post
    Want more reasons to not have flying removed? I don't want to fight a ton of mobs to get to my raid EVERY TIME I have to go there (which is quite often). I don't want to get ganked too, yeah that's another reason. One more reason is I prefer to spend my time wrapping up all the jobs I have and being effective in raid while not having to spend 2 hours on something because 3-4 horde guys decided to gank me. I'm not selfish, I just ask for the option to fly, no one forced YOU or anyone else that loves PvP to get on flying mounts, use your ground mounts and stop the crap (Everyone takes the easy way, I call that WEAK WILLPOWER). Well maybe the ppl who want flying removed are a bunch of whiners and a minority of the wow community found only in the forums. It's not about not wanting to do something with other players, it's having the freedom to do what I LIKE. When you choose server it doesn't say "You will get ganked mercilessly to the point you will logout", does it? By removing flying mounts you take away from me the freedom to do what I like (PVE), while you AREN'T FORCED IN AN PvE INSTANCE whether you are in a PvP or a PvE server. Who said I want to be ganked by you so you can have fun... I don't ruin others good time to have fun and I expect the same treatment, whether it's a PvE or a PvP server. Learn what selfish and freedom means and then reply to me. Until then pick your 1-2 friends that want to use ground mounts and wpvp with them (Doubt there are more).
    Look it's really simple.

    There's no deffense for picking the wrong server, none, nada, ZIT.
    I could show compassion if you where low level, but you're not, so I don't.

    The reason I called you selfish is because you where being rude to people who DID pick the right server.

    You picked the wrong servertype, and thene mock the people that picked the correct server type, calling the people who actually understood what they where getting into "pathetic".

    Now all that doesn't bother me, what bothers me, is whene people that object to things that make a pvp server more dangerous, being it no fly zones or crossrealm zones.

    Basicly like this, pvp servers had issues, pvp was hard to come by, zones where empty, and flying made it just a tad to hard to run into eachother at times.
    Now people who roled on the wrong servertype come in and object to these fixes for these problems being implemented, because they do not like the pvp side.

    YOU chose the wrong servertype, why should the people who chose the correct once have to listen to you not wanting pvp on a pvp server,you have your own damn servers, you don't see me whining I can't kill anyone on a pve server.

    Just switch server or deal with it, instead of whining to change the rules to your liking, just because you picked a wrong server whene you where a kid.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-12 at 01:16 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdef View Post
    LFR = You always get something. Gear Gold whatever.
    Arena = You never get anything if you lose.

    Huge difference. Easy to lose Arena. Impossible to lose LFR.
    This is just..wow.

    No you do not get anything in lfr for losing, if you wipe, no loot.
    Wining a few games in arena is not harder thene winning lfr, once you are low mmr, you will win, just as in lfr.

    Once your mmr is the correct number, most people will be looking at a 50% winratio. It doesn't take long to win or lose an arenagame eighter, nor are you depending on a dropchance, it's VERY easy to get a gearset, it's capped on how much you can advance per week, sure but it's easy.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-12 at 01:19 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    Yet we have because they just could have easily made flying enabled on these zones or even more made these zones like the rest of the large daily zones. They are needlessly complicating a mechanic of the game purely for the sake of nostalgia and wpvp influences.

    Also some people would argue being forced into ground mounting again after ground mounting from 1-60 and 85-90 is like getting full set of 496's and being told you can only use one of them despite the other pieces sitting in your bags. It's a removal of power and a frustrating inconvenience for those who do dailies as they are intended as pure chores and wish to do other fun things in this game.
    That's a completely fair point and I will grant you that.
    Removing abilities is odd and feels weird, I agree.
    Last edited by glowzone; 2013-01-12 at 12:16 AM.

  18. #338
    Mechagnome Serenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glowzone View Post
    Look it's really simple.

    There's no deffense for picking the wrong server, none, nada, ZIT.
    I could show compassion if you where low level, but you're not, so I don't.

    The reason I called you selfish is because you where being rude to people who DID pick the right server.

    You picked the wrong servertype, and thene mock the people that picked the correct server type, calling the people who actually understood what they where getting into "pathetic".

    Now all that doesn't bother me, what bothers me, is whene people that object to things that make a pvp server more dangerous, being it no fly zones or crossrealm zones.

    Basicly like this, pvp servers had issues, pvp was hard to come by, zones where empty, and flying made it just a tad to hard to run into eachother at times.
    Now people who roled on the wrong servertype come in and object to these fixes for these problems being implemented, because they do not like the pvp side.

    YOU chose the wrong servertype, why should the people who chose the correct once have to listen to you not wanting pvp on a pvp server,you have your own damn servers, you don't see me whining I can't kill anyone on a pve server.

    Just switch server or deal with it, instead of whining to change the rules to your liking, just because you picked a wrong server whene you where a kid.
    I'm not whining and I'm not changing the rules to my liking, in fact I want them to stay the way they were, you are the one who wants to change them.
    Also I called pathetic a few specific individuals that feel strong or good when they are 5 vs 1, keep ganking that 1 player and then /spit or /laugh at him/her as if he/she has ANY means to 5v1 anyone. If that's not pathetic then what is.

    Also, you say pvp was hard to come by... you have instanced pvp to do which is much better in terms of quality, skill and strategic thinking. You never whined about PvE bosses or anything because NO RAID BOSS ever came to kill you while you were doing dailies and then camped you. Did it? You are the one who wants to force PvP to others despite everyone deserving to have the fun they want without impacting other people's fun. If that's not selfish then I see no point in talking to you anymore. I'm sorry that you can't understand and you can't come up with anything but this POOR argument (that so many others do in forums to force pvp on us pvers), that I picked the wrong server.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by darkpower View Post
    I don't think there's any use convincing some of these people no matter how many times you prove to them otherwise or how many good reasons you put out there. Some of them just want the attention and see how much of it they can get, no matter how fail their argument tends to be.

    For example, the person you're responding to. Look how many times he's contradicted himself or has said that he mentioned something he never did until we called him out on it.

    This is just like every other thing people bitch about in WoW that Blizz never listens to. Hell, I bet the reason why GC even said that is because he sees the constant barrage of people rambling all day bitching over stupid shit like this. No wonder the Blues on the official forums get chips on their shoulders sometimes when this is all they ever hear.
    Some people have legitimate reasons as to why flying, as it is currently implemented, is not healthy for this game.

  20. #340
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    thunder isle shaping up to be this expansions moltan front.. which itself was pretty fun, so hope this lives up to it.
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