No flying 5.2

[Manabomb]

I don't think there's any use convincing some of these people no matter how many times you prove to them otherwise or how many good reasons you put out there. Some of them just want the attention and see how much of it they can get, no matter how fail their argument tends to be.

For example, the person you're responding to. Look how many times he's contradicted himself or has said that he mentioned something he never did until we called him out on it.

This is just like every other thing people bitch about in WoW that Blizz never listens to. Hell, I bet the reason why GC even said that is because he sees the constant barrage of people rambling all day bitching over stupid shit like this. No wonder the Blues on the official forums get chips on their shoulders sometimes when this is all they ever hear.

Yeah I agree. At this point responding to that particular person seems to just be arguing for the sake of arguing. It's frustrating to see so many close minded people who blindly believe what is given to them and not wanting to seek context. I actually believe that the reason GC said that was to blame something instead of blaming the players and the community like their stance of cata was, even if the something they are blaming is pretty much a perfect system.

I'd just like to say, to everyone who is an advocate of ground mount only gameplay. What you feel is nostalgia. Nothing will ever bring back the feeling of level 1-60 in original vanilla wow sans a flying mount and then leveling 60-70 sans a flying mount and then grinding the 1k gold it took to get your first flying mount. Nothing will bring back the epic feeling of flying for the first time no matter how limited you make flying mounts or how super special you try and make ground mounts. Get over it.

Some people have legitimate reasons as to why flying, as it is currently implemented, is not healthy for this game.

Name one that does not involve the relative epicness of questing (because questing isn't designed to be epic despite common misnomer) or world pvp that is a legitimate concern and I will eat my own foot.

[glowzone]

You are the one who wants to force PvP to others despite everyone deserving to have the fun they want without impacting other people's fun. If that's not selfish then I see no point in talking to you anymore. I'm sorry that you can't understand and you can't come up with anything but this POOR argument (that so many others do in forums to force pvp on us pvers), that I picked the wrong server.

I am NOT forcing pvp on anyone, the pvp server ruleset is.
In the same way I am not forcing any roleplayer not to be called rofljediX, the server ruleset is.

The whole point of a pvp server is to be forced into pvp, there's nothing else to it. If a pvp server doesn't mean that, what would be the point in one?

I've not asked blizzard to change anything, I'm not asking to remove flying mounts, I'm argueing why I think they shouldn't have made this design choice way back thene, it's to late now, obviously.

---------- Post added 2013-01-12 at 01:31 AM ----------

I don't think there's any use convincing some of these people no matter how many times you prove to them otherwise or how many good reasons you put out there. Some of them just want the attention and see how much of it they can get, no matter how fail their argument tends to be.

For example, the person you're responding to. Look how many times he's contradicted himself or has said that he mentioned something he never did until we called him out on it.

This is just like every other thing people bitch about in WoW that Blizz never listens to. Hell, I bet the reason why GC even said that is because he sees the constant barrage of people rambling all day bitching over stupid shit like this. No wonder the Blues on the official forums get chips on their shoulders sometimes when this is all they ever hear.

What?
I accept if I'm wrong just fine, but I'll have to be point out where, with GOOD reasoning.
Your arguements where just grammer police and petty insults, you've no room to talk of my arguements if you behave in such a manner.

I have admited other people's points just fine. IF they had good points.

[Serenia]

I am NOT forcing pvp on anyone, the pvp server ruleset is.
In the same way I am not forcing any roleplayer not to be called rofljediX, the server ruleset is.

The whole point of a pvp server is to be forced into pvp, there's nothing else to it. If a pvp server doesn't mean that, what would be the point in one?

I've not asked blizzard to change anything, I'm not asking to remove flying mounts, I'm argueing why I think they shouldn't have made this design choice way back thene, it's to late now, obviously.

No it doesn't force it, I'm ok with how it is now, I can use my flying server and it's not "that forced" into me and I like it. When I wanted real wpvp I would go and do Halaa battles 50 vs 50, not pick some of my guildes and grief random hordes that were trying to solo quest.

And if you noticed one of my previous posts I prefer the way Thunder King Isle is created, I wouldn't like it being a flying island because it would feel too small, it takes like 5 mins to scout the whole island (if that) and I don't mind. It's the thought of no flying mounts at all anywhere that I would hate. The server ruleset won't gank me with (yeah it's tiring to say it over and over again) 5 mates, me at 50% and no cds. I would like a 1v1 battle with full cds but not a 5v1 and then being laughed at for what?! For not being able to take 5 ppl at once? There is a reason why people in PvP use more insulting language and treat worse each other most of the time or act bad and ruin other's fun. Most of the time good players turn to immature ones because of it and are often more suspectible to raging. (with a few rare exceptions).

[Lolercaust]

Yeah I agree. At this point responding to that particular person seems to just be arguing for the sake of arguing. It's frustrating to see so many close minded people who blindly believe what is given to them and not wanting to seek context. I actually believe that the reason GC said that was to blame something instead of blaming the players and the community like their stance of cata was, even if the something they are blaming is pretty much a perfect system.

Or, more likely, GC doesn't side with the pro-flyers. It isn't a stretch, judging by how he's balanced gameplay that he's an MMO purist at heart.

Name one that does not involve the relative epicness of questing (because questing isn't designed to be epic despite common misnomer) or world pvp that is a legitimate concern and I will eat my own foot.

The convenience and ease of completing content while flying reduces the shelf-life of said content by making it take less time to complete. As a result, Blizzard is pressured to release more content in a shorter timeframe.

Of course I don't expect you to eat your own foot, because I already know based on your tone you won't take me seriously.

[glowzone]

No it doesn't force it, I'm ok with how it is now, I can use my flying server and it's not "that forced" into me and I like it. .

Ok sure, the server rule set does not force you into pvp,or even to like, it does however force you into accepting it once it happens.
Surely we can agree on that.

---------- Post added 2013-01-12 at 01:40 AM ----------

At this point responding to that particular person seems to just be arguing for the sake of arguing.

I'm doing the same thing you guys are, I have an opinion and I defend it, nothing more, nothing less.

[Manabomb]

Or, more likely, GC doesn't side with the pro-flyers. It isn't a stretch, judging by how he's balanced gameplay that he's an MMO purist at heart.



The convenience and ease of completing content while flying reduces the shelf-life of said content by making it take less time to complete. As a result, Blizzard is pressured to release more content in a shorter timeframe.

Of course I don't expect you to eat your own foot, because I already know based on your tone you won't take me seriously.

Except that the content we are talking about is daily content that is already staggered and panned out despite the reduction of time it takes to complete each day as I already pointed out in a previous post, so what you said has no point.

It's never as simple as GC not siding with a certain populace of players not because of his own opinions but because he represents the design team and their opinions and beliefs. That and business practice commonly dictates it's easy to blind the masses by blaming something that has nothing to do with the problem.

[Lolercaust]

Except that the content we are talking about is daily content that is already staggered and panned out despite the reduction of time it takes to complete each day as I already pointed out in a previous post, so what you said has no point.

And that was a step in the right direction. Perhaps the game wouldn't need so much artificial gating in the first place if everyone wasn't zipping around at 310% movement speed.
Nevertheless, flying does have its downsides. What upsides does it have besides convenience? It adds nothing of importance to gameplay and only detracts from it.

It's never as simple as GC not siding with a certain populace of players not because of his own opinions but because he represents the design team and their opinions and beliefs. That and business practice commonly dictates it's easy to blind the masses by blaming something that has nothing to do with the problem.

Think what you want, but GC has never minced words with the public, nor has he bit his tongue.

[Serenia]

[QUOTE=glowzone;19793089]Ok sure, the server rule set does not force you into pvp,or even to like, it does however force you into accepting it once it happens.
Surely we can agree on that.

Of course but that doesn't mean it's fair or fun. I also can't understand how people have fun by ruining other's fun instead of seeking ppl that like PvP.

[Manabomb]

I'm doing the same thing you guys are, I have an opinion and I defend it, nothing more, nothing less.

Except that you can't express your opinion without relying on logically invalid remarks and center your entire argument around what if's instead of trying accept the reality of the situation.

[glowzone]

Except that you can't express your opinion without relying on logically invalid remarks and center your entire argument around what if's instead of trying accept the reality of the situation.

How's that, point if out for me, I'm not being sarcastic, truely curious.

I already accepted that the skyrim one was a bad choice of words.

[Manabomb]

And that was a step in the right direction. Perhaps the game wouldn't need so much artificial gating in the first place if everyone wasn't zipping around at 310% movement speed.
Nevertheless, flying does have its downsides. What upsides does it have besides convenience? It adds nothing of importance to gameplay and only detracts from it.



Think what you want, but GC has never minced words with the public, nor has he bit his tongue.

He doesn't have to, he get's paid for the entire community to hate him. He's a joke card. He's like the president of the united states. He can say he will do this and that all he wants but it's really congress that's running the show.

The artificial gating via daily quests was created to combat horrific repeatable turn in quests or long quest chains that involved getting a reputation to exalted. It was also created with flying in mind (see Tbc) and still to this day we see the exact same trends as then. Large daily hubs separated by a wealth of landscape. The whole point of it being a convenience is what makes it important as a gameplay element, yet the only detraction I can see from your argument is they have to somehow work harder about content being consumed despite it already being staggered and the potentials of world pvp.

Also, of course it adds nothing to gameplay because that isn't it's purpose. We don't use flying mounts actively whilst raiding or end game pvping so that entire point is moot. The artificial detraction you feel is very ill-founded.

[glowzone]

I also can't understand how people have fun by ruining other's fun instead of seeking ppl that like PvP.

That's because you seem to stop at being a victim, instead of getting it together and kicking their ass later, alone or in group.
Wich come to think of it is hard to do if they fly of after the kill, ironicly.
I do have understanding for the low levels tho, the killer is usually long gone by the time your main's on the spot, if you've not gotten your main there before you got killed.

They did seek out people who like pvp, they rolled on a pvp server for it, so anyone who does not, well, wrong server, again.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Well PVP servers somehow didn't feel like that to others...until CRZ cropped up. Honestly I think CRZ as nice as it is to see zones populated, has brought issues.

[glowzone]

Well PVP servers somehow didn't feel like that to others...until CRZ cropped up. Honestly I think CRZ as nice as it is to see zones populated, has brought issues.

I understand this, but can you really make a change of plans to pander to these people?
If anything, isn't that an indicator of how much these changes where needed?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I understand this, but can you really make a change of plans to pander to these people?
If anything, isn't that an indicator of how much these changes where needed?

No I can't. I'm a bit neutral to CRZ. I like it but at the same time I understand the issues it brings.

[Lora]

That's awesome. Now if only they'd remove flying from the rest of the game.

disclaimer: I don't care at all about wpvp. I want the removal of flying mounts for pve reasons.

For inefficiency? Makes sense.

[yurano]

All of these WPvP 'promoters' will instantly regret it once a R1 arena team heads out to Thunder Isle and chain stomps everyone and anyone for hours on end.

There's no fighting back, especially if you're in PvE gear.

I'm from a PvP 'heavy' server and experienced this first hand back in Isle of QD.

[sTyLnK]

That's fine with me. It'll be like Isle of Quel'danas back in BC or however you spell it.

[happyzod]

I am honestly tired of having to build up 2 sets of gear, one for PvP and one for PvE just to do this content. Unless blizzard solves that problem first, I have a hard time finding myself enjoying the game for much longer.

[Ringthane]

Why make me spend

Here's where your argument falls apart. Nobody made you do anything.