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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Yohassakura View Post
    I believe one of the rumors is that the PS4 has a 7970 inside, but the Xbox 720 extra RAM
    No chance of it having a 7970, you'd be talking $800+ for the system.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by hitmanblood View Post
    What do you think is the Pc development future for true pc ports, or lazy console ports.
    even to this day you have developers that wont port a game from Xbox to PC with more than 720p (dark souls). Just due to next gen xbox using DX11 and 1080p, there will be a HUGE step up for those type of games being ported to PC. on the pc vs xbox debate, the higher end PCs will still win out. the xbox will not have a 500+ dollar GPU inside of it, but users with lower-end PCs will see big improvements in console graphics due to the increased RAM and developing to static hardware vs making a PC game that supports billions of different RAM+GPU+CPU configurations

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dar3652 View Post
    even to this day you have developers that wont port a game from Xbox to PC with more than 720p (dark souls). Just due to next gen xbox using DX11 and 1080p, there will be a HUGE step up for those type of games being ported to PC. on the pc vs xbox debate, the higher end PCs will still win out. the xbox will not have a 500+ dollar GPU inside of it, but users with lower-end PCs will see big improvements in console graphics due to the increased RAM and developing to static hardware vs making a PC game that supports billions of different RAM+GPU+CPU configurations
    By the time they get around to using DX11 on consoles, DX12(or whatever is the next popular version, since DX10 wasn't really used at all) will be out for games.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Yohassakura View Post
    I believe one of the rumors is that the PS4 has a 7970 inside, but the Xbox 720 extra RAM

    that would be awesome, but a 7970 card costs almost as much as the ps3 did just after launch, if the ps4 had a 7970 inside it would have to sell for almost a grand to make a good profit >.< in which case, i wouldn't buy it. but hey i could be wrong

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by bryanmathis View Post
    that would be awesome, but a 7970 card costs almost as much as the ps3 did just after launch, if the ps4 had a 7970 inside it would have to sell for almost a grand to make a good profit >.< in which case, i wouldn't buy it. but hey i could be wrong
    yeah sony definitely could not afford to do that especially with the vita being DOA.
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by bryanmathis View Post
    that would be awesome, but a 7970 card costs almost as much as the ps3 did just after launch, if the ps4 had a 7970 inside it would have to sell for almost a grand to make a good profit >.< in which case, i wouldn't buy it. but hey i could be wrong
    Sony sold PS3s for a loss, but added a 10% (or so I believe) "licensing fee" to each game (so they billed teams that made games for the PS4). That means that they made their money back up from the games that were sold.
    I think the PS3 here started at around £600, whereas the 7970 is £300

    My rumour source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcYLB-RtpOk

    4GB RAM in PS4 with a 7970 , 8GB RAM in Xbox720 with a "mobile Nvidia" card
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  7. #27
    I am Murloc! Cyanotical's Avatar
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    something to keep in mind, the 7970 costs a consumer $500, not a manufacturer, this is an artificial price point based on the cards performance, not it's cost

    the actual production cost of a GPU or CPU chip is about $1 a piece, they could sell the chip to sony for $35 dollars each, make a profit, and have a guaranteed bulk customer for the next 5-10 years, meanwhile sony could still keep the PS4 at a reasonable price

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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanotical View Post
    something to keep in mind, the 7970 costs a consumer $500, not a manufacturer, this is an artificial price point based on the cards performance, not it's cost

    the actual production cost of a GPU or CPU chip is about $1 a piece, they could sell the chip to sony for $35 dollars each, make a profit, and have a guaranteed bulk customer for the next 5-10 years, meanwhile sony could still keep the PS4 at a reasonable price
    Idd. Bulk and sales between the two companies would bring the price right down. It may also help to bring people sway people away from Nvidia if this is true (if they just assume that, as the AMD chip in the PS4 is stronger than the Nvidia chip in the Xbox720, AMD/ATI is now better!) - which they're about equal nowadays anyways.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohassakura View Post
    Idd. Bulk and sales between the two companies would bring the price right down. It may also help to bring people sway people away from Nvidia if this is true (if they just assume that, as the AMD chip in the PS4 is stronger than the Nvidia chip in the Xbox720, AMD/ATI is now better!) - which they're about equal nowadays anyways.
    They are still using AMD CPUs, and I honestly doubt consoles will be supporting multi-core CPU rendering.

  10. #30
    Part of the problem is that Sony and Microsoft lost so much money from their consoles this generation, that they have dragged out their lifespan by almost 3 years longer then normal. And the thing is though that we won't see either console until late 2014 and at that point, graphics technology will have advanced again. Epic Games has already said that current consoles won't run the next Unreal engine, they even doubted the Wii U could until Nintendo put out the Zelda tech demo at E3 in 2011. I doubt even Sony and Microsoft's next offerings are going to be a whole lot more powerful then the Wii U, and if there is a lesson to be learned from the PS3, it's not launching a console at nearly double the price of the competition just because you opted to use a fancy new processor that no one wants to develop for.

    Another thing that will really hinder console sales growth next generation is games as a whole. Games cost so much to make compared to last generation or the one prior, no 3rd party developer is making exclusive games and when you have 3 platforms all running the same game the exact same way (sans Nintendo's controller innovations over the years), it's going to come down to brand loyalty. The PS2 and many other older consoles thrived because of exclusive games, hell the N64 LIVED off exclusive games. If there are not many exclusives, what is the point of buying one console over the other? People always try to use exclusives as an excuse for buying one console or another, but let's face it, both the PS3 and 360 never thrived off exclusives and the large majority of their games were multiplatform games that were also shared with the PC market.

    If Sony and Microsoft can't innovate in the next generation, they won't sell their systems. Nintendo can continue to sell because they push the envelope of gaming.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Yohassakura View Post
    Idd. Bulk and sales between the two companies would bring the price right down. It may also help to bring people sway people away from Nvidia if this is true (if they just assume that, as the AMD chip in the PS4 is stronger than the Nvidia chip in the Xbox720, AMD/ATI is now better!) - which they're about equal nowadays anyways.
    This is insanity...

    How would they cover: Equipment cost? salaries? Developement of newer GPUs? the list goes on and on.

    Making graphics card is not some golden money goose. Nvidia for example earned 4 billion in 2012, of those 580 million were profit. How much can they drop the price before they go in minus? 10%, 20%?

    Point is, AMD cannot sell GPUs for 35$ or even half the price, just because Sony is gonna purchase several million CPUs AND GPUs. Surely Sony will get a huge discount, compared to regular consumers. In addition, Sony will likely sell the product at a loss. So it's not entirely impossible that PS4 will run with a 7970 and sell for 500-800 Dollar.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Yohassakura View Post
    Sony sold PS3s for a loss, but added a 10% (or so I believe) "licensing fee" to each game (so they billed teams that made games for the PS4). That means that they made their money back up from the games that were sold.
    I think the PS3 here started at around £600, whereas the 7970 is £300

    My rumour source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcYLB-RtpOk

    4GB RAM in PS4 with a 7970 , 8GB RAM in Xbox720 with a "mobile Nvidia" card
    you do know that sony didnt make a profit on the ps3 till like 2010 and still are losing millions of dollars every year right? sony hasnt had a profitable year in a LONG time.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 10:10 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MMKing View Post
    This is insanity...

    How would they cover: Equipment cost? salaries? Developement of newer GPUs? the list goes on and on.

    Making graphics card is not some golden money goose. Nvidia for example earned 4 billion in 2012, of those 580 million were profit. How much can they drop the price before they go in minus? 10%, 20%?

    Point is, AMD cannot sell GPUs for 35$ or even half the price, just because Sony is gonna purchase several million CPUs AND GPUs. Surely Sony will get a huge discount, compared to regular consumers. In addition, Sony will likely sell the product at a loss. So it's not entirely impossible that PS4 will run with a 7970 and sell for 500-800 Dollar.
    sony cant afford to put a console out thats more than 400$
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  13. #33
    About the loss stuff, Microsoft & Sony both weren't making profit in the beginning. Consoles don't need a 3930k & gtx 680/7970 at all. Really if it comes to consoles, I really care about the hardware specs but the games are counting and especially the controller ergonomics/usability. The gpu's of 360/ps3 were comparable with a 1900xt/7800gt? With such graphics card nowadays you even can't run wow smooth enough and a 0% chance to play BF3.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    you do know that sony didnt make a profit on the ps3 till like 2010 and still are losing millions of dollars every year right? sony hasnt had a profitable year in a LONG time.
    They've made some money back, and like I said, they sold the PS3 for a loss.

    Quote Originally Posted by MMKing View Post
    This is insanity...

    How would they cover: Equipment cost? salaries? Developement of newer GPUs? the list goes on and on.

    Making graphics card is not some golden money goose. Nvidia for example earned 4 billion in 2012, of those 580 million were profit. How much can they drop the price before they go in minus? 10%, 20%?

    Point is, AMD cannot sell GPUs for 35$ or even half the price, just because Sony is gonna purchase several million CPUs AND GPUs. Surely Sony will get a huge discount, compared to regular consumers. In addition, Sony will likely sell the product at a loss. So it's not entirely impossible that PS4 will run with a 7970 and sell for 500-800 Dollar.
    I didn't say how cheap they'd be able to go (or agree with $35 at all), but they would definitely sell them for cheaper than retail price.

    I'd say that the PS4 will sell for around $600 and the Xbox720 $500
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Faithh View Post
    About the loss stuff, Microsoft & Sony both weren't making profit in the beginning. Consoles don't need a 3930k & gtx 680/7970 at all. Really if it comes to consoles, I really care about the hardware specs but the games are counting and especially the controller ergonomics/usability. The gpu's of 360/ps3 were comparable with a 1900xt/7800gt? With such graphics card nowadays you even can't run wow smooth enough and a 0% chance to play BF3.
    the thing is though. if the ps4 doesnt sell really well there will be NO ps5.

    this generation is it or nothing for sony. they cant afford to take any risks

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 10:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Yohassakura View Post
    They've made some money back, and like I said, they sold the PS3 for a loss.



    I didn't say how cheap they'd be able to go (or agree with $35 at all), but they would definitely sell them for cheaper than retail price.
    theyve made NO money back. at all. sony has continually had a yearly loss for the past couple years
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    you do know that sony didnt make a profit on the ps3 till like 2010 and still are losing millions of dollars every year right? sony hasnt had a profitable year in a LONG time.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 10:10 PM ----------



    sony cant afford to put a console out thats more than 400$
    The PS3 launched with a 600 Dollar price tag.

  17. #37
    sony lost 5.7 billion dollars this year and its the 4th year of annual losses. that means for the past 4 years sony has made NO money theyve only lost money

    http://phys.org/news/2012-05-sony-annual-loss.html

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 10:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MMKing View Post
    The PS3 launched with a 600 Dollar price tag.
    when the ps3 launched sony had the best selling console of all time on their backs and lots of money. all the ps2 money is gone
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  18. #38
    Obvious answer: Consoles are optimized for gaming, while PCs are multi-purpose machines. At the start of a new console line, consoles will be close to (or, dare I say, slightly ahead (of) PCs in terms of gaming capabilities. What you really have to pay attention to is the obvious fact that a console running on 2006 hardware isn't going to touch the power of a 2012 PC, simple as that. Optimization of hardware isn't going to make up for a 6-year technological gap.

    The new consoles will bring new IP as they always do (PS2 brought Kingdom Hearts, Xbox brought Halo, PS3 brought Uncharted, Xbox 360 brought Gears of War). I just gave one example from each, but they certainly weren't alone. Nintendo might be the exception here, as they seem to just churn out first-party titles featuring Pokémon, Mario, Samus, Link, and so on. They might provide a new-ish take on those things, but they'll stick to the big-ticket wheelhouse they've lived in for 20+ years.

  19. #39
    I am Murloc! Cyanotical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMKing View Post
    This is insanity...

    How would they cover: Equipment cost? salaries? Developement of newer GPUs? the list goes on and on.

    Making graphics card is not some golden money goose. Nvidia for example earned 4 billion in 2012, of those 580 million were profit. How much can they drop the price before they go in minus? 10%, 20%?

    Point is, AMD cannot sell GPUs for 35$ or even half the price, just because Sony is gonna purchase several million CPUs AND GPUs. Surely Sony will get a huge discount, compared to regular consumers. In addition, Sony will likely sell the product at a loss. So it's not entirely impossible that PS4 will run with a 7970 and sell for 500-800 Dollar.
    we all know AMD has problems, you can point to many things that have lead up to their current situation, but actual chip costs are ridiculously low, look at smartphones, companies like Samsung and Apple argue over whether a chip should cost $1 or 2, yet still sell their phones for $500-$800

    GPU chips are artificially priced based on performance, not costs, Fabs need little retooling for new dyes and this has lead to chips being very profitable, like i said, it costs about $1 to actually manufacture a single chip

    the loss on the original PS3 was due more to other things than production costs, an original $600 PS3 probably only cost about $75 to physically produce, their losses are from other sources besides the manufacturing

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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by MMKing View Post
    The PS3 launched with a 600 Dollar price tag.
    The PS3 didn't take off until it got into a reasonable price point though, especially in the U.S.

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