1. #1

    MM hunters left behind yet again in 5.2?

    I know there is alrdy threats about the tier 15 set-bonus, but this is directed solely to MM. If someone feels it shouldn't be here, that's fine, i just wanted to post my thought and fears for the next patch.


    Everyone knows MM is behind the other specs as it is atm.

    As i see it, the new set bonus doesn't really help MM out in that way.

    The 2-set bonus benefits from BM mastery, and procs more often for survival than for MM.

    The 4-set bonus benefits from survival mastery, and here BM got more procs than MM aswell.


    i hope i see this in the wrong way, since i love MM and will play the spec regardless of a 5% disadvantage in dps, but i would like the spec to be as viable as the rest.

    MM spams steadyshot a bit more often than the other specs use cobra (although not a lot), so i would think they would get more procs from the 2-set bonus, but apparently not. :/

    If not MM gets some love, these tier bonuses will push MM even further below survival and BM. And i really don't understand why blizzard would want that.

  2. #2
    These are just set bonuses that may change in the future and there hasn't even been any raid resting in 5.2 as well as there hasn't been any number changes for Hunters. You're essentially containing about nothing at the moment.

  3. #3
    At the moment we have BM for single target, not heavy-movement based fights and SV for everything else and both are mediocre.

    It feels like Blizzard doesn't want to mess with MM and it's being currently ignored. This said, there is still plenty of time left ahead so things are subject to change.

  4. #4
    Kindof disappointing that marks gets no benefit from mastery at all in regards to these tier bonuses. However the 2 piece gives approximately similar damage due to the RPPM being different per spec.

    4 piece seems like it favors SV, but not by a ton.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Nangz View Post
    Kindof disappointing that marks gets no benefit from mastery at all in regards to these tier bonuses. However the 2 piece gives approximately similar damage due to the RPPM being different per spec.

    4 piece seems like it favors SV, but not by a ton.
    it favoring any spec even by a little will cause the top end players to swap to that spec. As it sists Survival will be the way to go as you get 2pc Tier come 5.2

  6. #6
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    All four of the "pure" DPS classes tend to have a non-competitive spec. For a long time for us, it was BM, now it's MM, which is a bit of a rude change for all us MM enthusiasts, but that's it.

    Sub has only been good in like one tier ever, with legendaries, frost has been crap til this expansion (and one mage spec is always below the other two, right now that seems to be fire), and destro is behind afflic/demo for locks.

  7. #7
    5.2 hasn't been on PTR long and we have no idea if Blizz has something in the works as far as number tweaks/buff/nerfs etc, or what ever. I'd say wait a bit more before we start complaining. Just my opinion though.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    it favoring any spec even by a little will cause the top end players to swap to that spec. As it sists Survival will be the way to go as you get 2pc Tier come 5.2
    Hunter
    • The Hunter 2T15 bonus is a chance to summon a Thunderhawk. That Thunderhawk will assist you, and will always cast 5x Lightning Bolts for 16k to 24k Nature damage. Its damage will scale with BM mastery, and will not scale with Survival mastery. However, the proc chances (which are Real PPM) vary by spec: 0.7/min for BM, 1/min for MM, 1.2/min for Surv.
    • The Hunter 4T15 bonus is affected by Survival’s mastery, cannot trigger Wild Quiver, and procs at a rate of 3 RealPPM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    All four of the "pure" DPS classes tend to have a non-competitive spec. For a long time for us, it was BM, now it's MM, which is a bit of a rude change for all us MM enthusiasts, but that's it.

    Sub has only been good in like one tier ever, with legendaries, frost has been crap til this expansion (and one mage spec is always below the other two, right now that seems to be fire), and destro is behind afflic/demo for locks.
    Ahem.
    Destro isn't behind, it's all about RNG.
    And unlike afflic destro doesn't suffer from Nightfall non-procs.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by bewsh View Post
    Hunter
    • The Hunter 2T15 bonus is a chance to summon a Thunderhawk. That Thunderhawk will assist you, and will always cast 5x Lightning Bolts for 16k to 24k Nature damage. Its damage will scale with BM mastery, and will not scale with Survival mastery. However, the proc chances (which are Real PPM) vary by spec: 0.7/min for BM, 1/min for MM, 1.2/min for Surv.
    • The Hunter 4T15 bonus is affected by Survival’s mastery, cannot trigger Wild Quiver, and procs at a rate of 3 RealPPM.
    anyone reason you reposted this again... we know what the set bonuses are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valisen View Post
    5.2 hasn't been on PTR long and we have no idea if Blizz has something in the works as far as number tweaks/buff/nerfs etc, or what ever. I'd say wait a bit more before we start complaining. Just my opinion though.
    yeah and they say many things i HIGHLY doubt we will see anything change with hunter numbers... blizzard just doesn't care about the class... if they did they wouldn't make 1/3 of the fights work against hunters.

  11. #11
    Last Xpac it was BM, the Xpac before that SV was in the dumps. Its MM's turn to deal with it sadly. I cant say I am upset, MM is possibly the worst spec I have every played on any class in my WoW career. I simply dispise it lol. Everyone gets their turn though...

    I didnt raid in Vanilla, I was lvling at that point in time. BC was pretty much BM with SV coming in top with BiS gear. WotLK started out BM 1 button power spam, and then MM with ArP was the bee's knees. Cata was still MM until entry raid gear then SV pulled ahead. Nerf bath commeth and SV went down like a tiawana prostitute. It was BM/SV going back and forth for a bit till BM was bumped up for MoP. MoP gave us BM again at the start with SV creeping up recently. My money will be next Xpac BM to start with MM being the main raid spec. SV will get trounced more than likely... its just its turn again!

    It is frustrating to all spec fan boys/girls when its your specs time to sit... It would be nice to see a tier in which all 3 were pretty much raid vialble, but it seems 2 is all we get. Better than 1 I suppose!
    Last edited by Hurpdurp; 2013-01-11 at 06:34 PM.

  12. #12
    It's pretty normal with pure classes. When we have 3 DPS specs, as long as one is viable on each encounter that is what matters.

    It's not really unfair - MM being terrible isn't as big a deal as, say, Shadow being terrible, but it is kind of disappointing.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    it favoring any spec even by a little will cause the top end players to swap to that spec. As it sists Survival will be the way to go as you get 2pc Tier come 5.2
    Survival is not the top spec..... it is getting at MOST 40% more (mastery) benefit from a ~2% tier bonus. So it would look like BM getting a 2% increase, SV getting a 2.8% increase. ( Not 100% sure about numbers, but SV's benefit is only slightly larger than the others).

    The difference between the 2 specs is between 2.5% and 8% damage depending on your simulator of choice. The gap closes for sure, but for SV to pass BM, it has to get MUCH more benefit out of the 4 piece than BM does and that simply doesn't happen.
    Last edited by Nangz; 2013-01-12 at 02:15 AM.

  14. #14
    good, all these years people have criticized me for being a BM
    BM was hardly fixed years ago and frowned upon by raiders
    now whos to hunter?

  15. #15
    According to my math, the 2 PC is about even for bm and mm and for SV it is better.

    The 4 piece is again the same for BM/MM, but for SV it is better.

    Presuming the thunderhawk can crit.

    For MM:
    Every minute
    2 pc: 1 proc yielding (80k-120k)-(160k-240k) damage (1333.3333 dps - 2000 dps) - (2666.66666667 dps - 4000 dps)
    4 pc: 3 procs yielding 300% weapon damage. ~35k-70k damage a hit. 105k - 210k

    For BM:
    Every minute
    2pc: .7 proc yielding (78k-117k)-(156k-235k) damage (1300 dps - 1950 dps) - (2600 dps - 3916.66666667 dps) (40% mastery)
    4pc: 105k - 210k damage 1750 dps - 3500 dps

    For SV:
    Every minute
    2pc: 1.2 procs yielding (96k-144k)-(192k-288k) damage (1600 dps- 2400 dps) - (3200 dps - 4800 dps)
    4pc: 3 procs yielding 126k - 252k (20% mastery) (2100 dps - 4200 dps)

    and since BM is losing the best 4 piece ever and SV is losing a bad 4 piece, I can say that SV will most likely be top and BM/MM will be about equal.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-12 at 02:26 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nangz View Post
    Survival is not the top spec..... it is getting at MOST 40% more (mastery) benefit from a ~2% tier bonus. So it would look like BM getting a 2% increase, SV getting a 2.8% increase. ( Not 100% sure about numbers, but SV's benefit is only slightly larger than the others).

    The difference between the 2 specs is between 2.5% and 8% damage depending on your simulator of choice. The gap closes for sure, but for SV to pass BM, it has to get MUCH more benefit out of the 4 piece than BM does and that simply doesn't happen.
    You also have to take into account BM is losing the best 4 piece ever and SV isn't really losing much compared to BM when you switch to the t15 2PC which benefits SV more. That is what made BM better than SV and MM. Now, I cannot say what exactly is going to happen but imo it will go something like this:

    SV > BM/MM
    Last edited by Tehstool; 2013-01-12 at 02:28 AM.

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  16. #16
    I did raid finder earlier and it's the 1st time i've ever seen a marksman hunter in there and he was the top dps. Not saying it shows they are anything special because he was still doing sub 80k dps and I have no idea what gear he had as I didn't inspect.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulosio View Post
    I did raid finder earlier and it's the 1st time i've ever seen a marksman hunter in there and he was the top dps. Not saying it shows they are anything special because he was still doing sub 80k dps and I have no idea what gear he had as I didn't inspect.
    If LFR meters were anything to go by then Disc priest are the best DPS in the game.
    Last edited by Meleti; 2013-01-13 at 02:35 AM.

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