Thread: Fix My DK DPS

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  1. #1
    Moderator Fnx-'s Avatar
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    Fix My DK DPS



    Let's use this instead of making new threads every day.
    The general point of this thread will obviously be to help other people improve their death knight dps, beginner and advanced players.


    Blood tank questions will not belong in this thread, but here:

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    Last edited by Fnx-; 2014-10-12 at 07:53 PM.

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  2. #2
    The Lightbringer shise's Avatar
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    Good one. Even when your DPS is good enough there's always something new to learn, different ways to do some things, etc

    There's no better way to learn than helping others, that kinda shares experience.

  3. #3
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    I'll start...

    Decided to go DW a couple of days ago seeing as I got my second kil'rak and wanted to try it/seen good things etc etc.

    Anyway, the bottom line is I seem to suck, have read the priorities on multiple websites, used simcraft to plot reforge points for optimal haste and mastery and specced into plague leech and blood tap.

    WoW... bit of a difference to 2H frost.For the first hour it took all my willpower not to use obliterate on KM procs. I find myself constantly monitoring when my blood plague is close to falling off, whether or not I have an available unholy runes for the re-application of diseases after using plague leech (then inevitably cursing the fact I was too late to use it), how many stacks of Blood Tap I have. Am doing more DPS currently using runic empowerment and unholy blight simply because I don't really know whether (with blood tap) it's OK to use that second Unholy rune as BT will return a death rune anyway?

    put simply, am opening with diseases... trying to use an unholy rune on DnD, plague strike or Obliterate depending on what's on cooldown (and always keeping one on cooldown) then going for as much howling blast spam as possible while making sure I don't cap RP and use frost strike on KM procs.

    using pillar, raise dead, SR sub 35%

    Really don't know where I'm going wrong at the moment... it's definitely a L2P issue, am aware of that - just seem to be doing more damage as unholy let alone 2h frost.

    Will inevitably try the spec in our Sunday raid... compare it to a time when I actually topped meters and crawl back into the 2h box. If anyone who moved from 2h to DW has any suggestions then please throw them at me in a timely manner.

    EDIT - would also like to point out that my reason for going DW was:

    a.) It seems to do the same damage single target (haven't seen this yet)
    b.) It does far more damage in a cleave scenario (this I can see... Flailing about wildly in LFR with very little correct management of diseases etc managed 140k on garalon)
    c.) I have far more interesting transmog ideas for DW.
    Last edited by vmagik; 2013-01-12 at 04:15 AM.
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  4. #4
    Legendary! Evil Inside's Avatar
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    I've had the same problem vmagik. You need practice is all, just go run lfr or heroics or just sit on a dummy til you get used to it and trust me you'll be seeing a good improvement on your dps.
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  5. #5
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0sanac View Post
    I've had the same problem vmagik. You need practice is all, just go run lfr or heroics or just sit on a dummy til you get used to it and trust me you'll be seeing a good improvement on your dps.
    well, it's getting better...

    for now I've bound blood tap to howling blast, meaning I can unleash it at an apt moment without having to micromanage it (yet!... I will soon enough)

    I have a nice blood tap stacks weakaura thanks to vereesa on these forums

    Just looking for a nice weakaura or small addon to easily track my blood plague via an addon now without having to look away from the action too often
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  6. #6
    Vmagic, since I have yet to play DW frost, I can't comment on your rotation without logs, but form the looks of it you seem to be doing it somewhat correctly. You mention that you're trying to not use Obliterate with KM proccs, which on the other hand you should actually try to do IF Killing Machine is procced and both Unholy Runes are off cooldown. Is there any chance of getting a log? What numbers are you exactly pulling, cause what you think is bad might be what's expected of that item level.

    Also, great thread Fnx, suprised there hasn't been one up yet seeing there is one for other classes!
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  7. #7
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kapaya View Post
    Vmagic, since I have yet to play DW frost, I can't comment on your rotation without logs, but form the looks of it you seem to be doing it somewhat correctly. You mention that you're trying to not use Obliterate with KM proccs, which on the other hand you should actually try to do IF Killing Machine is procced and both Unholy Runes are off cooldown. Is there any chance of getting a log? What numbers are you exactly pulling, cause what you think is bad might be what's expected of that item level.

    Also, great thread Fnx, suprised there hasn't been one up yet seeing there is one for other classes!
    No logs as of yet, first day as DW frost and I've done one LFR (badly)... Will have a log in a day or two after the main runs - it'll be useful for me because I'll be able to compare it to the 2h frost and unholy numbers (upgraded normal shin'ka + 500str gem) I already have logged.

    Aye, as you said - if the unholy runes are up then I'm trying to use obliterate with a KM proc, I meant in general - i.e. "oooh, KM, that means Obliterate!" seems to be tattooed so far into my brain that using it on FS just feels odd ;-) Have found that macroing blood tap to HB makes a lot of sense, being able to burst and convert the unholy runes to death runes feels good.

    I now have a nice needtoknow bar with blood plague that I can't miss and I guess I'm pulling around the 80-85k mark on a raid target dummy (without adds/flasks etc) in 495ilvl gear once you factor in the valor upgrades... The playstyle's starting to feel pretty nice in general, very fast and I'm sure I'll miss Plague Leech a few times for the first few days but can see it picking up.

    Cheers for the help, will post a log when I get one.
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  8. #8
    hey guys i'm a level 88 DW frost DK and normally my DPS is of an acceptable standard i.e. on top pf the recount table or atleast second. But i've just started a quest in townlong steppes which is up in flames, and when i go to kill the adds i'm not able to get anywhere my normal standard of DPS :s i just don't understand it any advice would be great

  9. #9
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adammat92 View Post
    hey guys i'm a level 88 DW frost DK and normally my DPS is of an acceptable standard i.e. on top pf the recount table or atleast second. But i've just started a quest in townlong steppes which is up in flames, and when i go to kill the adds i'm not able to get anywhere my normal standard of DPS :s i just don't understand it any advice would be great
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    They should be easy to finish off from there.
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  10. #10
    I dig this thread, pcool places like this on the internet exist.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by vmagik View Post
    well, it's getting better...

    for now I've bound blood tap to howling blast, meaning I can unleash it at an apt moment without having to micromanage it (yet!... I will soon enough)

    I have a nice blood tap stacks weakaura thanks to vereesa on these forums

    Just looking for a nice weakaura or small addon to easily track my blood plague via an addon now without having to look away from the action too often
    I just started using blood tap to try it out and liking it quite a bit. Is there a reason you macro'ed it to howling blast and not frost strike? When howling blast is on CD do you just use blood tab by pushing howling blast again?

  12. #12
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toekneepark View Post
    I just started using blood tap to try it out and liking it quite a bit. Is there a reason you macro'ed it to howling blast and not frost strike? When howling blast is on CD do you just use blood tab by pushing howling blast again?
    Tbh, macroing it to anything isn't going to be as efficient as learning to use it without the macro... atm I'm trying to use it without having it macrod... I have a weak aura set up showing me how many stacks I have, a little timer counting down to when the stacks will drop off and a sound that pops when it gets to 10 stacks (so I don't cap it!)

    I started testing with BT macrod to frost strike but you get the most out of blood tap by returning unholy runes as death runes... Depleting your unholy runes then having to make sure you have enough RP to get some FS off to quickly bring an unholy rune back as a death rune seemed really backwards. Seeing as you want to be using runes on HB anyway (generally) - having it macrod to HB seemed more natural, I could HB, bank a few blood charges with FS, deplete unholy runes, press HB and it would return the unholy rune as a death rune then HB again. You don't really have to worry about wasting charges as they won't activate unless you have a fully depleted rune anyway and, seeing as BT's off the GCD, if you're in a rare position where you have all DDFF runes available then you can use HB a couple of times, press the button quickly again and it will return the death rune before the GCD lets you HB again.

    Doing it manually would totally be better during the execution phase as you'd want those death runes available for soul reaper but the "macro to howling blast" method seems fine while I'm learning to use it properly :-P

    ^^ This is totally for DW btw (you likely know that!) but, if you wanted to use BT for 2H you can macro it to frost strike without a problem. BT returns less runes than RE and, as 2H you can use all those runes on Obliterate anyway but I do like BT with 2H simply because it's reliable, you know when your extra runes are coming and you generally have far more runes available for Soul Reaper when the execution phase comes. If you want the best possible DPS with 2H then RE will be your best bet but BT does remove RNG (which is always nice!)
    Last edited by vmagik; 2013-01-15 at 05:20 PM.
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  13. #13

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ginousko View Post
    Armory:http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Kirrito/simple
    Spec:Frost 2H
    World of Logs:http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...nfo/?enc=kills
    Question it seems I suck. Do I overuse my FS and HB:
    Nah your rotation seems fine, your use your rime proccs on HB which you should do whenever it proccs, your FS seems to be fine for 2handed too since they tend to be about 80% more then obliterates. I'd personally recommend using RE instead of RC as 2handed frost. Your frost strikes cost doesn't justify having a cooldown reduction on runes compared to Death Coil, and having runes insta refresh is much better then having 3 of them over 3 seconds. Don't compare yourself to your other DK who's playing DW. Not only is he using two DW weapons that both have higher iLVL then yours, the DW specc is much better for the fights you linked on that logg. Getting your hands on a heroic starshatter and upgrading it will give you a big boost until you get the heroic Sha weapon.
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  15. #15
    Moderator Fnx-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kapaya View Post
    Nah your rotation seems fine, your use your rime proccs on HB which you should do whenever it proccs, your FS seems to be fine for 2handed too since they tend to be about 80% more then obliterates. I'd personally recommend using RE instead of RC as 2handed frost. Your frost strikes cost doesn't justify having a cooldown reduction on runes compared to Death Coil, and having runes insta refresh is much better then having 3 of them over 3 seconds. Don't compare yourself to your other DK who's playing DW. Not only is he using two DW weapons that both have higher iLVL then yours, the DW specc is much better for the fights you linked on that logg. Getting your hands on a heroic starshatter and upgrading it will give you a big boost until you get the heroic Sha weapon.
    I wouldn't agree on that, I didn't check every single fight, but just spiritbinder and he is wasting KM procs on FS over and over.
    Detailed Spiritbinder rotation
    2nd pot is used at a really odd point as well, just before he went inside.

    Another this is you should use runic empowerment and not runic corruption for 2H frost. Not a big fan of going with haste gems either, even if it sim higher.
    Last edited by Fnx-; 2013-01-17 at 11:23 AM.

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  16. #16
    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...dmaws/advanced
    Spec: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/tal...!100001!WLlbSh
    World of Logs: all of them are old and as 2H not DW
    Question (BE VERY SPECIFIC): How do I Masterfrost exactly?

    I don't have any logs from recently because I don't want to spam my guild's log page with me trying to learn DW again after 3.5 years of not having touched it and never having done Masterfrost, but with this gear setup, how exactly do I treat runes? "Masterfrost" involves spamming HB from Frost/Death runes and only using OB when I need to get rid of an Unholy rune, right? I did a 4/4 N ToES that I led last night and did OK DPS, but didn't have Plagueleech or Blood Tap as DW at the time, had Unholy Blight and RE.

    So, for runes : HB w/ Frost/Death > OB with Frost and Unholy up, only use OB to get rid of UH runes and RP generation? For RP, I have tried out sitting on the RP for 1 FS, in case I get a KM proc, is this common practice? I'm a lot more used to runes being my #1 resource as 2H over DW. I haven't tried out Blood Tap as DW Frost either but understand how it works because of playing Blood for certain LFRs/ 5 mans/ mass AoE daily pulls. For that, I want to HB, plague strike, plague leech, then PS again, have 5 Blood Tap charges ready, make the depleted UH rune into a Death rune with Blood Tap and use it on HB, right?

    I was just blindly following what IcyVeins recommended for DW DPS rotation, but I am thinking that if I get masterfrost down better it'd be a lot better. Looking at top DW DKs they seem to have a mix of using RE and BT for their rune regen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemah View Post
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  17. #17
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    @Freedom

    TBH I'm not the best to comment on DW as I've only been playing it now for a few weeks... However, whether you do well as DW really seems to come down to how you manage your UH runes and coming from a 2H background where you don't really need to worry about which runes are regenerated (you just spend them on OB and keep diseases up) it really takes a while to get used to. The simplest way I can explain how I play DW (whether it's correct or not I'm sure someone else will tell me!) would be:

    1.) Diseases, simple, same as 2h.
    2.) Use all the runes (Death/Frost) you possibly can on HB. Obliterate costs twice as many runes, yet 2x HB does more damage.
    3.) Frost strike, it's your hardest hitting (non-execute) ability so it takes a while to realise your RP "dump" actually does a load of damage... Saving some RP for use on a KM is OK, just don't cap resources.
    4.) Always use SR post 35%, while it's a marginal DPS increase for 2h frost (from a GCD pov) it's by far the hardest hitting DW ability.
    5.) Managing UH runes comes down to whether you're using BT or RE I suppose... From what I understand, with RE you always make sure you use 1 UH rune and keep the other available, making sure you never have one completely depleted. This forces RE to return Frost or Death runes rather than bringing back an UH rune that can't be used on HB. If you use BT then you can bank a few charges, use both unholy runes and return one of them as a Death rune, effectively giving you more runes to use on HB.

    What you use your UH runes on depends on the situation... If diseases are close to falling off then plague strike, DnD would be the next option, after that a KM obliterate still does pretty decent damage and gives you a chance at a free HB anyway.

    Blood Tap is a great ability for DW, personally I use it pretty much every 30 seconds before reapplying diseases (not sure if should only be using it before outbreak but "meh") but UB isn't bad either if you just want another outbreak and CBA micromanaging.

    To make it easier on myself I have some weakauras set up... one lights up SR and plays a chime when a boss is below 36% and SR is available for use. Another plays a small "blip" sound whenever I have 1 or more unholy runes available. Another lights up DnD when it's available AND I have an indicator for how many blood charges I have/how long until they drop off.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by vmagik View Post
    2.) Use all the runes (Death/Frost) you possibly can on HB. Obliterate costs twice as many runes, yet 2x HB does more damage.


    5.) Managing UH runes comes down to whether you're using BT or RE I suppose... From what I understand, with RE you always make sure you use 1 UH rune and keep the other available, making sure you never have one completely depleted. This forces RE to return Frost or Death runes rather than bringing back an UH rune that can't be used on HB. If you use BT then you can bank a few charges, use both unholy runes and return one of them as a Death rune, effectively giving you more runes to use on HB.
    I had never really thought of those. While this DK is an "alt", I like to make sure I play my characters effectively, and seeing my DPS not go up a lot after getting 2 str 1 handers from an N MSV Agi polearm to a N and LFR Sha touched made me annoyed. Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemah View Post
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  19. #19
    Armory:http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...ephjr/advanced
    Spec:Frost 2H
    World of Logs:http://worldoflogs.com/reports/h6nyc...?s=5152&e=5582
    Question: So, i'm currently 2H frost but i never really liked it. Now, i want back to 1h. As you can see in my armory, i wear the lfr 2h from ToeS (incl. legendary gem). I have one Elegion (ilvl 497 normal, 2/2 Upgrade) and one Elegion (ilvl 476 LFR, 0/2 Upgrade) in my back. Now the question: Can i fearless switch to 1h without loosing DPS? Or is the loss of the legendary gem too big? RNG hates me and 1h sha-weapon never drops
    Sorry for my english, it's not my native language.
    Thank you for your help!

  20. #20
    Moderator Fnx-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zephir View Post
    Armory:http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte...ephjr/advanced
    Spec:Frost 2H
    World of Logs:http://worldoflogs.com/reports/h6nyc...?s=5152&e=5582
    Question: So, i'm currently 2H frost but i never really liked it. Now, i want back to 1h. As you can see in my armory, i wear the lfr 2h from ToeS (incl. legendary gem). I have one Elegion (ilvl 497 normal, 2/2 Upgrade) and one Elegion (ilvl 476 LFR, 0/2 Upgrade) in my back. Now the question: Can i fearless switch to 1h without loosing DPS? Or is the loss of the legendary gem too big? RNG hates me and 1h sha-weapon never drops
    Sorry for my english, it's not my native language.
    Thank you for your help!
    Over all DW is higher and will always be if played right, but you might need a bit of practice to play it well, if you BT/PL spec witch you should. About the weapons, argh, it's hard to tell tbh. I think 2H will come out of top for you still using the Sha-touched weapon.

    OT: Noticed you under hitcap as well, by a lot even, fix that as first prio.
    Last edited by Fnx-; 2013-01-24 at 01:10 PM.

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