Thread: Fix My DK DPS

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  1. #41
    Neither are working for me ... :l

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Strokr View Post
    Neither are working for me ... :l
    The ones linked quoting me aren't working but I edited my first post in this thread for the new links, and they are working for me on Chrome/Firefox and IE.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Nangz View Post
    Mungzta-Both the armory and WoL parses are not valid urls. Relink perhaps?

    Darkkaos really cannot do much without a wol parse. The only info I can really say is that you only use obliterate to burn unholy runes. If you are serious about dw frost, you should double check your reforging. The correct priority after hit/expertise is mastery>haste>crit. But I may be wrong since haste vs mastery depends on gear. Sim yourself with stat weights to check.
    First, really thanks and I appreciate everything you said.
    I'm really serious to try DW, my only problem is... I'm still raiding (MSV 2/6HC and 16/16N not a great progression, I know), and really when our DPS is too low, I can't even change my reforge. Tomorrow during the day, I'll be gemming and Reforging.

    But my real problem (can only be mental problems), is the rotation, I believe. You told me: OB to burn Unholy Runes... ok, but, I have 2 Unholy Runes, so I'll spend 1 Unholy Runes and 1 D/F rune for this? 2 times? Sorry about this question, I know this is the basic rotation, and I really read the posts, but still could not catch the essence of rotation for DW.

    So I tried to ask a "step by step" for this rotation, because I'm still lost with this rotation.

    Thanks again guys.


    EDIT: Now, reforged!
    Last edited by darkkaos; 2013-02-13 at 02:13 PM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Mungzta View Post
    Long Version w/ "The Story" scroll down if you're lazy
    Well I decided to have a good friend of mine join our casual raiding group as a DK DPS, and even thou we are casual I feel his numbers are extremely low compared to where his gear levels currently are. I tank on a DK myself, but I'm not extremely familiar with the rotation, so I thought I would post on here to help get him some constructive CRIT-isism and help him. I've linked him to the EJ guide for frost, and tried to offer him with helpful advice where I can but I feel as if its beyond my hands now. When I've asked him about the issue regarding the DPS I'm told its because his gear is potentially low, if this is the case I would like to know how many more pieces hes going to need before it falls into a comfortable level, I'm not expecting miracles of him, but around 65-70k would be nice so we don't have to worry about enrages. After looking over the logs with an officer of mine, it looks like hes not using obliterate at all, is this just a 2-hand only ability? Please help clarify.

    Armory:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...o/Oliin/simple
    World of logs:http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r.../6/?s=32&e=450
    Spec: Frost Dual Wield

    In closing thanks for the help, myself and my guild really appreciate it.
    By burning his unholy runes with Plague Strike, he's clipping all his Blood Plagues, losing damage there. By ignoring obliterate entirely, he's also missing out on potential Rime procs, which are free howling blasts.

    He didn't precast Army on the pull, which is a ton of damage lost. He isn't using Raise Dead on CD.

    I could be wrong, but it seems he didn't use Unholy Blight or Outbreak at all? (Looking at the Expression Editor in WoL)

    He didn't use Empower Rune Weapon, which he should be able to get off atleast twice in a ~7 minute fight.

    In summary: Pre-cast army before boss pull (start at 6 sec before boss is pulled), Raise Dead before your potion and PoF, Raise Dead on CD thereafter (lined up with PoF), use obliterate more (check EJ for basic rotation), use Empower Rune Weapon with potion+PoF and trinkets at start of fight, then again with potion whenever you use your second potion (this varies fight to fight obviously), use Outbreak/Unholy Blight to apply diseases.

    It seems like he's just spamming howling blast, plague strike, and then frost strike when he's out of runes =/.

  5. #45
    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...valyk/advanced
    Spec: 2h Frost w/ RE
    World of Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/u...?s=8440&e=8865
    Comparebot: http://raidbots.com/comparebot/51193...c0006c4#damage
    Question: How do I improve my DPS on Garalon?

    We wiped with him at 9%, and I have seen on World of Logs that there are Frost DKs in roughly the same gear as me, with roughly the same time duration for the fight, doing 30-40k more DPS. That difference could easily take out that last 9%. I know my Guildmates could up their DPS a lot, and we haven't had a lot of practice, but I'm not sure what exactly I can change to make myself better.

    I had thought that the best thing to do was to emphasize HB on the legs, since it will also hit the body, but now that I understand how the legs work more, I think that is wrong. I believe all damage done to the legs is transferred to the body? If that is the case I should just follow the normal Oblit prio on legs, as that will do more damage than 2-target HB, especially since I am geared for 2h Hastefrost.

    Should I HB the body when the two front legs are up, though? Since it would hit both front legs, so 3-targets for HB?

    Is there anything else that anyone might see that I can do? You can see the Comparebot above, I'm looking at myself v. two top-200 ranked 2h Frost DPS in roughly the same gear with roughly the same kill time, and the only thing obvious is that I am not using Obliterate nearly enough. Other than that I'm looking for suggestions, thanks!
    Last edited by Valyk; 2013-02-13 at 05:53 PM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Valyk View Post
    I top the meters as 2H Frost on Garalon, Your best bet is to just focus on legs, and make sure to make use of Pestilence. Pest on the body will spread your diseases to the two front legs.

    The way the legs work, is every time a Leg dies, it inflicts a flat 3% of Garalon's health to his body, and slows him by a stacking amount. So ideally as 2H Hastefrost all you do is kill legs, circle strafe around him DPSing his body as you go, kill more legs. Frost's high burst damage plus the Weak Points aura for being in his leg's circle makes your ability to rapidly destroy the legs quite impressive, so cleave damage becomes less important as opposed to killing a leg, dealing that 3% damage to him and then getting back on his body or on the next leg ASAP.

    One thing to consider is once his body hits 35%, tab back to him and Soul Reaper his body on cooldown, the legs rarely live long enough for SR to hit them unless you time it perfectly, so it's better to simply hit it every time it's off CD on his body then switch back to his legs if any are available.

    Legs are mostly a matter of managing your diseases, Pestilence will make sure that the front two always have double-diseases for one rune, should you pest off his main body, but it will only sometimes hit the back legs even glyphed when he's walking forward with one, so don't count on it. I find that Unholy Blight is fairly valuable to streamline this as much as possible, combined with dropping my Symbiosis: Plague Mushroom 'under' him so he walks his entire body through it during the duration.

    Beyond that, just make use of his gigantic hitbox to DPS his body between legs. Spec Death's Advance for this and press it as often as you can to minimize downtime, and go absolutely bugfuck crazy on his kneecaps.
    Last edited by Murdos; 2013-02-13 at 10:13 PM.
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  7. #47

    Little advice on uh please

    Hi everyone,
    I'm actually sitting at 6666 haste and here is the thing:

    -I checked logs of uh dk and if the BL is launched at the start of the fight they don't delay their unholy frenzy,(i know it can depend on the fights lengths if you loose one frenzy if it is not used at the pull) but in that case, with BL+frenzy Im wasting like half of my resources its awful.

    -With my amount of haste, and with no haste buff like BL or uh frenzy, i don't have any major leak in resources, its a perfect fitting between spending runic power and using runes

    I thought about those 2 things and realized that i had to reforge some haste into crit so i can stack BL and uh frenzy without loosing so much resources (but thus i would have leaks into my normal rotation), or either to not stack BL and uh frenzy (but then i'ld make lesser burst during the pull and risk loosing an uptime on unholy frenzy, and doing lesser burst at the pull, with is important too).

    I can change nothing too, Im doing a pretty decent dps, at least for my server and people i know (80k without buff on training dummy with 389 ilvl) but i feel i have something to improve on that matter, and neither of the 2 options i thought where satisfying enough, so here am i asking for ur advices

    Ah and my trinkets are the relic of xuen, and the trinket on the will of the emperors (rf version), i didn't had the chance to see the darkmist vortex during our raids but i feel like i've enough haste now, and 7k haste buff during the pull would make things worst. But again, its just that i don't see the synergy between all those things. (and with the combination of procs -> 2 strength trinkets with 45 sec ICD and the fallen crusader, i roll up with ultra buffed diseases during the whole fights)

    thanks for the help!

  8. #48
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    Diseases hit extremely hard for unholy. About the only tip I can give aside from pooling RP right before a transformation ends (to get him transformed immediately) is to watch AP procs like a hawk. When you have everything or close to everything up apply your diseases and try to keep them rolling for as long as the encounter permits.

  9. #49
    as UH, part of the reason i don't delay frenzy is because both my ghoul and army benefit from all the the extra haste, and to make sure that frenzy lines up with garg later.
    (and because its plain convenient to macro them together)

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by RedFlame View Post
    as UH, part of the reason i don't delay frenzy is because both my ghoul and army benefit from all the the extra haste, and to make sure that frenzy lines up with garg later.
    (and because its plain convenient to macro them together)
    Are they dynamic or snapshot? Army and gargoyle that is

  11. #51
    Dynamic. only thing that isn't dynamic for UH is DoTs

  12. #52
    I don't really worry too much about UF and Bloodlust overlapping. It still is an increase over not using UF at all and desynching UF and Gargoyle is less desirable because of the other things i'm stacking them with.

    Currently, i'm running a whopping 8314 haste and i've found no reason to stop as I still have downtime outside of lust/Uf. I don't have any intention of picking up a darkmist vortex, it may be BIS on paper for frost but it isn't for unholy.

    One of the biggest increases to unholy is putting up diseases that deal high damage. For me, I icy touch and plague strike on the pull, wait for both relic and lei shens to proc and then follow it up with synapse springs+blood fury and then finally outbreak. I usually have popped UF and Gargoyle by now but often the trinkets proc before I even have the RP for gargoyle.

    In any case the ideal situation would be me getting gargoyle off before the trinkets proc, having them proc at the same time, and then letting me outbreak to put high diseases up.

    Know that dummy tests aren't very viable but to illustrate my point:

    Buffs- Horn of winter
    Blood Plague- 12611 ticks
    Frost Fever 9964 ticks


    Buffs, unholy strength, Synapse springs, blood fury, horn of winter, relic double upgraded, lei shens double upgraded.

    Blood Plague-23168 ticks
    Frost Fever- 18360 ticks


    Thats a roughly 7k dps increase ( ~20k every 3 secs) with very little changes. This also isn't including mastery buff, crits/critbuff, and 5% magic debuff.

  13. #53
    Thats exactly the reason why i would use the darkmist vortex, the only thing is that i pull with unholy blight because it makes all things proc extremely quickly (the 3 proc are aligned within 2 or 3 sec), i'm not yet engineer and ma racial is draenei but with the unholy blight pull, i get the 2 trinkets + fallen crusader and then, whenever those 3 procs are sync again, i hit outbreak. Furthermore i've a cancel aura unholy blight macro if i have to refresh decease and that UB will fall out after the procs, so i still get good diseases.

    But i've read on many forums that gary took a snapshot of your stats, is it sure that it is dynamic?

    And could you assure me that pestilence take a snapshot of the stats you have when you hit de ability and does not actually spray the exact same diseases that are on your main target? (another thing i read somewhere) because it would change my whole gameplay on mel'jarak.

    Lastly, do you manage to use blood tap for refreshing runes that were death runes? because if you use blood tap on B or F runes, they would have anythay turned into D runes, but if you manage to use blood tap on a previously D rune, you get another D rune instead of B or F rune, thus you gain 2 scourge stikes instead of a festering. But i dont really try hard to manage it that way...

    anyway thanks for the help

  14. #54
    Diseases do not scale in any way with haste. Thus darkmist vortex has less benefit than the other 2. I cannot say for blood tap as I run with RC, the small decrease is acceptable to me.

    I don't really worry much about fallen crusader's proc when it comes to diseases, it isn't something you can force or predict as well as your trinkets.

    Gary's snapshot is a pre mop mechanic. It now is dynamic. ( Test it out!)

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murdos View Post
    I top the meters as 2H Frost on Garalon, Your best bet is to just focus on legs, and make sure to make use of Pestilence. Pest on the body will spread your diseases to the two front legs.

    The way the legs work, is every time a Leg dies, it inflicts a flat 3% of Garalon's health to his body, and slows him by a stacking amount. So ideally as 2H Hastefrost all you do is kill legs, circle strafe around him DPSing his body as you go, kill more legs. Frost's high burst damage plus the Weak Points aura for being in his leg's circle makes your ability to rapidly destroy the legs quite impressive, so cleave damage becomes less important as opposed to killing a leg, dealing that 3% damage to him and then getting back on his body or on the next leg ASAP.

    One thing to consider is once his body hits 35%, tab back to him and Soul Reaper his body on cooldown, the legs rarely live long enough for SR to hit them unless you time it perfectly, so it's better to simply hit it every time it's off CD on his body then switch back to his legs if any are available.

    Legs are mostly a matter of managing your diseases, Pestilence will make sure that the front two always have double-diseases for one rune, should you pest off his main body, but it will only sometimes hit the back legs even glyphed when he's walking forward with one, so don't count on it. I find that Unholy Blight is fairly valuable to streamline this as much as possible, combined with dropping my Symbiosis: Plague Mushroom 'under' him so he walks his entire body through it during the duration.

    Beyond that, just make use of his gigantic hitbox to DPS his body between legs. Spec Death's Advance for this and press it as often as you can to minimize downtime, and go absolutely bugfuck crazy on his kneecaps.
    There is a math problem with your logic. Since leg respawn timer is NOT predicated upon the time of the last leg dying, but rather a fixed timer, once the first leg is down, DPS on the legs isn't necessarily as important in one sense. In essence, it's better to be killing the legs quickly enough, but still cleaving, to maximize DPS. Doing 200k DPS to a leg for 10 seconds isn't as good as doing 150k DPS to the leg, and 75k DPS to the body, but taking 15 seconds to kill the leg. This is because for many classes it is better to be cleaving off the leg, rather than single targeting the leg, than single targeting the body. In other words, killing the legs incredibly quickly is not the same as getting more total damage done. Yes, killing a leg will do 3% of the bosses health. But if it takes you 5 extra seconds each leg, as long as the next leg hasn't spawned yet, you are actually going to be killing the boss quicker by AoEing, rather than single targeting. This is the same reason that, before the fix, Arms warriors were so OP. Because they were doing 300% effective damage, while other classes were doing around 250%.

    Now, I'm not saying that single targeting is necessarily bad. You want the first legs down quick to help the kiters. Afterwards though, it is better to cleave, if you truely want to maximize damage done (effective raid DPS) instead of just personal damage done.

  16. #56
    Honestly with the weakness of HB for 2H frost, particlarly with decent gear that doesn't have much passive mastery on it, I'd question if the damage done to the boss is enough to warrant doing that, because you're looking at a significant loss of damage.

    That 5 seconds is way more then the 75k DPS you're looking at spamming out HB.

    Arms Warriors weren't spamming a weak AOE, they were cleaving their hardest-hitting attacks.
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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murdos View Post
    Honestly with the weakness of HB for 2H frost, particlarly with decent gear that doesn't have much passive mastery on it, I'd question if the damage done to the boss is enough to warrant doing that, because you're looking at a significant loss of damage.

    That 5 seconds is way more then the 75k DPS you're looking at spamming out HB.

    Arms Warriors weren't spamming a weak AOE, they were cleaving their hardest-hitting attacks.
    It's not a sure thing, its simple a consideration. For example, its better for me on my fury warrior to sit on legs due to RB cleave than for a range to sit in circle and kill legs.

  18. #58
    You do realize you do not get the Weak Points damage buff on cleave off the legs, right?

    So while your howling blast may hit the legs for 100k damage, its' still doing only the weak 30k~ or so to Garalon's body. That's why single target's important. They nerfed the Weak Point cleave factor because as you previously mentioned, it became too easy for classes like Arms Warriors and Combat Rogues to trivialize the fight by leaving a single leg active for a longer period of time and letting them cleave off it.

    Ergo the damage you're losing on the leg letting it live longer pales compared to the damage you'd do being able to swing your usual 280k obliterates at his body, rather then 30-40k HB cleaves. Hell just spending an extra rune on Pestilence will make up for that very nearly.
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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murdos View Post
    You do realize you do not get the Weak Points damage buff on cleave off the legs, right?

    So while your howling blast may hit the legs for 100k damage, its' still doing only the weak 30k~ or so to Garalon's body. That's why single target's important. They nerfed the Weak Point cleave factor because as you previously mentioned, it became too easy for classes like Arms Warriors and Combat Rogues to trivialize the fight by leaving a single leg active for a longer period of time and letting them cleave off it.

    Ergo the damage you're losing on the leg letting it live longer pales compared to the damage you'd do being able to swing your usual 280k obliterates at his body, rather then 30-40k HB cleaves. Hell just spending an extra rune on Pestilence will make up for that very nearly.
    And this is why I said your logic was flawed. I didn't advocate going into a AOE rotation. I simply said you need to consider more than simply killing the legs ASAP. This includes, but is no limited to choosing only certain classes to DPS the legs, and making use of certain AoEs that, while they may slow down the killing of the leg, increase overall damage done.

    Honestly, does anyone on MMO understand nuance?

  20. #60
    ... That's nothing to do with my post or what he even asked, plus you're arguing from a Warrior standpoint, the raging blow cleave is quite a bit more damaging to it's four target cap then Howling Blast is, and as your base of comparison makes your entire argument flawed.

    He asked how to best maximize his damage to the boss as 2H Frost. I told him that, you're arguing a whole different topic alltogether. Please be quiet or do not post in this thread, because your advice is not only incorrect, but entirely non-helpful.

    Nuance be damned, this is about cold, hard facts. Please remove yourself.
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