Thread: Fix My DK DPS

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  1. #21
    Armory doesn't count the draenei racial

    But thanks for your help fnx!
    i stick with 2h until i got the sha-touched 1h

  2. #22
    Moderator Fnx-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zephir View Post
    Armory doesn't count the draenei racial

    But thanks for your help fnx!
    i stick with 2h until i got the sha-touched 1h
    Oh yea, true.

    edit;
    Are you 100% sure they didn't change that? It counts my exp for using an axe.

    Envy - Kazzak EU (www.envy.si)
    MY DK - "Stand in the fire, DPS higher!"

  3. #23
    High Overlord Jarg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fnx- View Post
    edit;
    Are you 100% sure they didn't change that? It counts my exp for using an axe.
    I've checked it also, and he is right, Armory doesnt count the Bluethingie's racial.

  4. #24
    Moderator Fnx-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarg View Post
    I've checked it also, and he is right, Armory doesnt count the Bluethingie's racial.
    Odd when it counts the exp orcs get from using axes then.

    Envy - Kazzak EU (www.envy.si)
    MY DK - "Stand in the fire, DPS higher!"

  5. #25
    Have a couple of questions id like to ask. For 2H Frost at what point does the 484 Darkmoon Card become replaceable? Does it take both Heroic Darkmist Vortex and Lei Shen's Final Orders to replace it? Or can Normal versions of both trinkets replace it? Also Fnx I noticed you don't use straight Haste gems and read a post a bit back saying you don't like using them. I tried simming my gear the way I currently do it (with straight Haste) and then gemming Strength. Haste actually came out ahead by 110k vs 106k on a patchwerk fight. What is the reason gemming Strength is better than Haste? Will Strength come out ahead with absolute BIS Heroic gear? Im currently in BIS Normal gear with 4 or 5 Heroics (501ilvl).

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Fnx- View Post
    Odd when it counts the exp orcs get from using axes then.
    Draenai Racial is a buff I thought whereas the orc bonus is a passive. At least it use to be that way long ago.

  7. #27
    I believe the most common problem 2H Frost will face is too many accidental KM FS. Instead of just pointing out the obvious, do you suggest a swing timer add-on? Quartz, Gnosis...others?

    Also Fnx, I noticed you blow off every set bonus for straight STR gems (except helm, obviously). Have you compared your performance when gemmed properly vs. the cata gemming philosophy you currently use?
    Last edited by DarthMetatron; 2013-01-25 at 04:43 PM.

  8. #28
    Moderator Fnx-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthMetatron View Post
    I believe the most common problem 2H Frost will face is too many accidental KM FS. Instead of just pointing out the obvious, do you suggest a swing timer add-on? Quartz, Gnosis...others?

    Also Fnx, I noticed you blow off every set bonus for straight STR gems (except helm, obviously). Have you compared your performance when gemmed properly vs. the cata gemming philosophy you currently use?
    There is a very good reason for that yes.
    I can't reforge more hit away than I already do, normally people would gem shoulders and belt with str/hit and str/haste in belt. That amount of extra hit I would gain is pointless, therefore pure str will come out on top for me right now. I would use the offset legs as well for more haste, but it's not wroth it for me right now coz they got hit as well.

    About the swing timer addon, I personally use quartz to show it. But it's really rare I even pay attention to it. Played dk for too long, pretty much know when the next swing is

    Envy - Kazzak EU (www.envy.si)
    MY DK - "Stand in the fire, DPS higher!"

  9. #29
    It is really only a few hundred DPS loss, not too much to worry about when you're in full heroic gear

    Guys like me with 15 less ilvl who are always so close to ranking, a few hundred DPS makes a difference so I prefer to get every last stat point I can (if it is a DPS gain).

    Yes I know what you mean about the swing timer, it's like a waltz, but sometimes I get out of sync with whatever mechanics are happening in the fight and can't get back into rhythm so I'm thinking about a swing timer to try to cut out more accidental KM FS.
    Last edited by DarthMetatron; 2013-01-25 at 06:19 PM.

  10. #30
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sflame View Post
    Have a couple of questions id like to ask. For 2H Frost at what point does the 484 Darkmoon Card become replaceable? Does it take both Heroic Darkmist Vortex and Lei Shen's Final Orders to replace it? Or can Normal versions of both trinkets replace it? Also Fnx I noticed you don't use straight Haste gems and read a post a bit back saying you don't like using them. I tried simming my gear the way I currently do it (with straight Haste) and then gemming Strength. Haste actually came out ahead by 110k vs 106k on a patchwerk fight. What is the reason gemming Strength is better than Haste? Will Strength come out ahead with absolute BIS Heroic gear? Im currently in BIS Normal gear with 4 or 5 Heroics (501ilvl).
    Surprised it's that big of a difference, it wasn't even a 1k difference for me when comparing haste and str+XX gems on a patchwerk fight (when I was 2h frost)

    The problem IMO (which is confirmed in sims) is when there's a non-patchwerk fight (which occurs more times than not) STR takes over due to downtime devaluing haste. STR was equal to haste on low movement fights for me and then took over from haste when more movement was involved. Less haste also can mean less wasted resources, leaving slightly more room for error
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  11. #31
    Hello, I suck.

    I've played unholy since WOTLK launch, except for one tier when I went Frost and was even worse. I figure it's better to be good at a lower DPS spec than bad at a higher DPS spec. Have been a casual raider for almost as long and would have described my play style as whack-a-mole with a vague sense of priority. In a MOP 10-man with base gear I was doing about 35k DPS.

    I've recently decided to up my game and be a bit more serious about it. I bought myself a new keyboard and mouse and am in the process of learning NOT to be a clicker (resulting in some hilarious fat finger moments as I press the wrong button!). I've started using macros and staring at the action bar less and my environment more. I've also installed and configured add-ons to ensure I'm not double applying diseases and to notify me when my trinkets are off cooldown. And I've tried to play a tighter game, trying things like making use of AMS. I've seen raid DPS get up to 50k but I reckon I can get it higher.

    Armory: eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/bronze-dragonflight/Doomcow/advanced
    Spec: Unholy
    World of Logs: worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-a0sla6lpnnw7lhgr/details/14/ <- Sorry, MMO won't allow me to post links as a new user so have to obscure it a little
    Question (BE VERY SPECIFIC): Aside from being more nimble fingered on the buttons what's the one thing I could learn to do in order to maximise my DPS

    Thanks in advance

  12. #32
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomcow View Post
    Hello, I suck.

    I've played unholy since WOTLK launch, except for one tier when I went Frost and was even worse. I figure it's better to be good at a lower DPS spec than bad at a higher DPS spec. Have been a casual raider for almost as long and would have described my play style as whack-a-mole with a vague sense of priority. In a MOP 10-man with base gear I was doing about 35k DPS.

    I've recently decided to up my game and be a bit more serious about it. I bought myself a new keyboard and mouse and am in the process of learning NOT to be a clicker (resulting in some hilarious fat finger moments as I press the wrong button!). I've started using macros and staring at the action bar less and my environment more. I've also installed and configured add-ons to ensure I'm not double applying diseases and to notify me when my trinkets are off cooldown. And I've tried to play a tighter game, trying things like making use of AMS. I've seen raid DPS get up to 50k but I reckon I can get it higher.

    Armory: eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/bronze-dragonflight/Doomcow/advanced
    Spec: Unholy
    World of Logs: worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-a0sla6lpnnw7lhgr/details/14/ <- Sorry, MMO won't allow me to post links as a new user so have to obscure it a little
    Question (BE VERY SPECIFIC): Aside from being more nimble fingered on the buttons what's the one thing I could learn to do in order to maximise my DPS

    Thanks in advance
    Afternoon! Awesome that you're moving away from clicking and suchlike - makes a bit of a difference in the long term, though how much difference (in PvE) will depend on how good you were at clicking in the first place.

    Taking a look at your stats you have a really low amount of haste, which is odd because your gear isn't terrible by any means... Ideally you might want to spend some valor on the Bloodseeker's Solitaire, get the klaxxi quest reward ring "seal of the bloodseeker" and then don't be afraid to swap some of the 489 valor gear you have with 483 LFR drops that have a load more haste or less mastery on. Ilvl isn't everything, e.g. the 483 Hisek's Chrysanthemum cape is better than your 489 one.

    Load yourself into AskMrRobot: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/e...flight/doomcow
    While AMR isn't the best tool in the world it'll provide you with a good starting point to get the 7.5% hit and expertise you need (edit - it looks like you might have done this while I was typing)

    Your Feng log shows your melee attack doing more damage than your death coil, which strikes me as odd but may just be a symptom of your low amount of haste. Additionally your diseases were only up for 82% and 87% and, seeing as feng's as close to a patchwerk fight as you can get on normal you should really have diseases up 90%+ of the time, especially as you're also using Unholy Blight.

    As unholy you can get a rather large DPS boost by "snapshotting" your diseases, by this I mean when you get a boost to your Mastery, Crit or Attack Power (and STR ofc from trinkets or procs etc) then any diseases you apply while these procs are active will inherit these stat boosts and keep them until that disease falls off or is reapplied. For this reason I usually start a fight with icy touch/plague strike and, once both my STR trinkets and fallen crusader have procced I use outbreak and keep that disease rolling with festering strike until outbreak is off cooldown again and I have some more procs occuring.

    In terms of priorities you should be:

    *Applying diseases, especially buffed ones.
    *Below 35% use soul reaper on cooldown - hits like a truck.
    *Keep Timmy transformed as much as possible... Some encounters (like Tsulong) will allow you to use AMS as a mini adrenaline-rush and pretty much get Dark Transformation off straight away. Other fights will need you to pool RP a bit just as DT's about to fall off so you can maximise uptime.
    *Use Unholy Frenzy but, IMO avoid using it at the start of the fight because you'll likely conflict with Heroism/Bloodlust and just have wasted resources.
    *Gargoyle's worth using in 5.1 but will be far better in 5.2 when it's free and does more damage.
    *Scourge Strike will be your hardest hitting ability (when counting the physical and shadow damage portions), use on Death runes.
    *Festering Strike whenever you have Frost/Blood runes available, it'll keep your diseases running and those BB/FF runes will come back as death runes to be used on more scourge strikes!

    I guess that "one thing" you could learn to maximise DPS as unholy actually comes down to 2 things, a.) Keeping buffed diseases running and b.) maximising dark transformation uptime.

    Hope at least some of that was helpful!

    EDIT2 - Started using an addon called "DKDOTS" (just look on curse) and frankly it's amazing, don't know how I played without this before tbh... Ooh, and also turn off your pets "gnaw" autocast. It's only 30 energy every min but it's pointless on boss fights anyway :-P
    Last edited by vmagik; 2013-02-06 at 03:20 AM.
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  13. #33
    Quick question re: PoF usage at the beginning of a fight - I'm running Relic + Will trinkets currently. My question being at the start of a fight are people typically waiting for the trinkets to proc prior to PoF (i presume this is the case for the large boost it gives), and do you blow any runes without PoF up to assist in making the trinkets proc?

    I see them proc fairly easily from white hits at times, but obviously RNG sometimes means there is downtime prior to the procs.

    Another question re: outbreak application - is it a waste to hold the outbreak until your trinkets proc + PoF for the boost since we are constantly refreshing with Rime, so it's only the BP which maintains the boosted damage for its duration?

  14. #34
    Rolling your diseases with high procs has a significant benefit for unholy and a smaller, but still measureable benefit for frost. Thus I start fights with icy touch+PS and then outbreak after my trinkets proc. Since stalking your cooldowns is optimal in the vast majority of cases, yes, I would say it is probably better to open with howling blast and plague strike in order to get trinkts procced. I could be wrong in this regard but i'm not sure.

    At the very least it doesn't make sense to pop PoF outside of melee range as you aren't getting the benefit.

    Elaborating on outbreak:

    I usually play unholy so i'm not entirely sure about holding outbreak vs using it on the pull to roll high diseases. As unholy the high diseases stay on target even through festering strikes. However for frost the benefit can almost be entirely wasted the moment you howling blast outside of trinket procs/cds. Plague strike has a similar issue since you refresh it after 30 secs, unlike unholy where you only refresh it with outbreak. ( Talking single target.)

  15. #35
    Thanks for the input, I understand the reason for UH since you extend the diseases, and what you posted about frost was my line of thought as well.

    If there are any frost players who wouldn't mind clarifying on my question regarding PoF that would be great

  16. #36
    First: Hello guys... I hope you do not complain on my English, I can understand perfectly what you say, and just have some problems with the "structural form" of English. So, I ask you to understand.
    I'm having trouble making Dps as DW and I know perfectly handle my 2H DPS, i think :P (good enough for a while haha).

    This is my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...3%B8s/advanced (I know I should reforge to mastery and use gems to it. I can't do this right now because I have yet to raid.)

    But my main problem has been with the rotation. I've been reading and reading, over and over again, but even so, still unable to understand my rotation frost DW (or I'm too stupid for it, is always possible).

    I can't get the idea of ​​using obliterate fit, and I know should basically "spamming" HB, but still, I'm sure something is wrong. It's really a mess =/.

    So, what I have been asking is if someone can explain to me really easy, step-by-step the rotation, or even better (but still asking for more, sorry), if anybody could do a video with the basic rotation.

    I'm really grateful for everyone's attention and I'm totally open to any complaint (even on my bad english haha)

    Thx 4all guys.
    Last edited by darkkaos; 2013-02-12 at 03:30 PM.

  17. #37
    Long Version w/ "The Story" scroll down if you're lazy
    Well I decided to have a good friend of mine join our casual raiding group as a DK DPS, and even thou we are casual I feel his numbers are extremely low compared to where his gear levels currently are. I tank on a DK myself, but I'm not extremely familiar with the rotation, so I thought I would post on here to help get him some constructive CRIT-isism and help him. I've linked him to the EJ guide for frost, and tried to offer him with helpful advice where I can but I feel as if its beyond my hands now. When I've asked him about the issue regarding the DPS I'm told its because his gear is potentially low, if this is the case I would like to know how many more pieces hes going to need before it falls into a comfortable level, I'm not expecting miracles of him, but around 65-70k would be nice so we don't have to worry about enrages. After looking over the logs with an officer of mine, it looks like hes not using obliterate at all, is this just a 2-hand only ability? Please help clarify.

    Armory:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...o/Oliin/simple
    World of logs:http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r.../6/?s=32&e=450
    Spec: Frost Dual Wield

    In closing thanks for the help, myself and my guild really appreciate it.
    Last edited by Mungzta; 2013-02-13 at 12:27 AM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Mungzta View Post
    Long Version w/ "The Story" scroll down if you're lazy
    Well I decided to have a good friend of mine join our casual raiding group as a DK DPS, and even thou we are casual I feel his numbers are extremely low compared to where his gear levels currently are. I tank on a DK myself, but I'm not extremely familiar with the rotation, so I thought I would post on here to help get him some constructive CRIT-isism and help him. I've linked him to the EJ guide for frost, and tried to offer him with helpful advice where I can but I feel as if its beyond my hands now. When I've asked him about the issue regarding the DPS I'm told its because his gear is potentially low, if this is the case I would like to know how many more pieces hes going to need before it falls into a comfortable level, I'm not expecting miracles of him, but around 65-70k would be nice so we don't have to worry about enrages. After looking over the logs with an officer of mine, it looks like hes not using obliterate at all, is this just a 2-hand only ability? Please help clarify.

    Armory:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...o/Oliin/simple
    World of logs:http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r.../6/?s=32&e=450
    Spec: Frost Dual Wield

    In closing thanks for the help, myself and my guild really appreciate it.


    He should use obliterate to an extent, but not as often as 2 hand. It looks like he's using plague strike to burn unholy runes (30 hits in 6.5 minutes) which is a good bit worse than obliterate. Disease uptime is pretty good. It'll probably take someone with more experience to get you better answers but for the immediate future, that's all I can do.*
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  19. #39
    Mungzta-Both the armory and WoL parses are not valid urls. Relink perhaps?

    Darkkaos really cannot do much without a wol parse. The only info I can really say is that you only use obliterate to burn unholy runes. If you are serious about dw frost, you should double check your reforging. The correct priority after hit/expertise is mastery>haste>crit. But I may be wrong since haste vs mastery depends on gear. Sim yourself with stat weights to check.

  20. #40
    Should be fixed, sorry and thanks.

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