Fix My DK DPS v1 - Thread broken, see v2 in the stickies

[Iluuni]

Hiya, guys. Need a bit of help on the DK front.

Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Yaama/advanced
Spec: Frost 2H
World of Logs: Nothing to show.
Question : So I'm very new to Frost. Up until recently, I was playing Unholy but wanted to try out the more bursty Frost. At the moment the way I'm playing is putting in the diseases, depleting Frost/Unholy Runes with Obliterate and then dumping Rune Power to then bring back the runes via Blood Tap with Plague Leech whenever Blood Plague is coming off the target. Then reapply. Right now I've been trying to NOT specifically save Killing Machine for Obliterate since it tends to be slowing down my play, which isn't something I particularly enjoy. What would you guys recommend I change? I understand that without a log it's hard to advise, but from your experience, what do you think?

First thing would to be use Plague Leech on CD/use it right after an Oblit. You have a chance to gain a free rune with Rime by using the proc to apply the free Frost Fever. Doesn't seem like much but it can end up gaining you an extra 10 or so runes during a fight. Also don't dump your RP right away, pooling it for runes right before PoF/burst phases isn't a bad thing, just don't RP cap yourself doing it.

Also get rid of the cleave trinket as fast as you can, it's actually really bad as it tends to like to proc white swings/Plague Strike from personal experiences.

[DingDongKing]

Alrighty, thank you. Yeah, the cleave trinket is about the only thing I have right now with a good strength proc. It's sad. My main has an LFR Thok and Flex EEoG whilst this poor guy has this. I even had to bonus roll on it since I've barely done enough Flex/LFR per lockout to get better stuff!

I'll try gaming Plague Leech around Obliterate and then the RP dump around PoF. Cool cool.

[Trubo]

Just dropping in to figure out if getting kicked from this pug normal 10 Garrosh group based on my damage has any real merit. Here's my armory. On the only attempt that mattered I was ~200k DPS (2h Frost) before dying during the second MC. First vision was ToES. The raid leader's argument is that 200k is subpar for my item level. I suppose it could be but the raid DPS was fine; pushed first transition before second Wolf Rider even had a chance to spawn.

Now I had a lot of downtime during the fight because:

1. Only one healer (can't just rofl during Whirling)
2. First attempt I agree that weapon was dying slow so other than spreading diseases I focused Weapons until they died during phase 1 as apparently the 4 300k+ ranged couldn't kill it before Iron Star spawn. During phase 2 Whirling I would switch to weapon that despite said ranged still wasn't dead before Whirling began.
3. Since first vision was ToES there's no real reason to damage the Sha adds until you're near Garrosh.

So accounting for movement and ignoring pad cleave damage my downtime was about 30 seconds. Damage taken during the fight was fairly minimal compared to the other DPS. My death was completely out of my hands due mostly to the tank deciding that the MC would be a good time to Thrash despite Thrash being active on the boss while lacking any trinket procs that would justify re-application of Thrash for single target DPS gain, then getting a 150k Thrash tick at 15% life.

Sadly I can't provide a log as I didn't feel like it'd be necessary to run logs for what was advertised as an easy normal Garrosh heirloom kill. Just want to know if 200k is a bit low for single target purposes with what I have.

[Maxweii]

You logged out in blood spec, I was guna sim you but didnt notice you were in blood until I was totally confused by the results lol.
Overall if that gear you're wearing is your dps gear, yeah seems a bit low.

[Trubo]

You logged out in blood spec, I was guna sim you but didnt notice you were in blood until I was totally confused by the results lol.
Overall if that gear you're wearing is your dps gear, yeah seems a bit low.

Forgot about spec, did Al'akir before I went to bed last night and just faceroll it as Blood. I'm not too surprised that much damage is a bit low but I'm mostly just annoyed that I got kicked essentially for doing what was asked (extra Blood Boil for spreading diseases to Weapon if Outbreak wasn't up, running to the damn weapon if at range, etc) whereas the raid lead's guildmates were barely breaking 1 million damage to weapons over 4-5 weapons but it was alright, they were pulling 380k from the adds in phase 1 despite the group having 3 knockbacks and us being positioned for knocking adds into the Iron Star. Oh, and for the tank basically wiping the raid by Thrashing the MC.

[Maxweii]

Yeah I sim you at 293446 dps for single target (thats best case scenario and such with low movement so prob 250kish for a healthy realistic look?)

Some people only care about numbers. Pugs especially. A lot of the time it's more of do good numbers to secure your spot, and hope the mechanics fall into place. Imo since you were doing mechanics you were doing fine, i'd rather raid next to someone whom knows what they are doing and aren't wiping the raid, compared to someone who just tries to top meters.

[Skarssen]

Swapping to the weapon (not sure where you were placing it) could be a significant drop for you. How much damage did you do to the weapon, and what was your rank there? Its really hard to draw any conclusions without logs so we can see where your damage was going, but it sounds like ranged were too busy padding AOE numbers when they should have been maximizing Garrosh and weapon damage. The fact that 4 ranged couldn't kill it on 10man is a major failure on their part, not yours.

[Trubo]

Swapping to the weapon (not sure where you were placing it) could be a significant drop for you. How much damage did you do to the weapon, and what was your rank there? Its really hard to draw any conclusions without logs so we can see where your damage was going, but it sounds like ranged were too busy padding AOE numbers when they should have been maximizing Garrosh and weapon damage. The fact that 4 ranged couldn't kill it on 10man is a major failure on their part, not yours.

First two were in the group, the others were out at range. I agree I wish I had logs but I wasn't logging on what I figured to be an easy heirloom run.

As for damage I went from just disease damage of 300kish to 3 million between attempts.

[DingDongKing]

Am I missing a trick here or are you gemmed wrong? I don't know about DKs, but for my Ret I'm always gemming into secondary stats. A more experienced DK could help out there. As far as your DPS is concerned, the situation was clearly not ideal. I might recommend waiting for another Garrosh fight and see how it goes with a coordinated group. You do seem primed in terms of gear for the encounter so wait and watch.

[Trubo]

Am I missing a trick here or are you gemmed wrong? I don't know about DKs, but for my Ret I'm always gemming into secondary stats. A more experienced DK could help out there. As far as your DPS is concerned, the situation was clearly not ideal. I might recommend waiting for another Garrosh fight and see how it goes with a coordinated group. You do seem primed in terms of gear for the encounter so wait and watch.

Been a while since I've looked majorly into how 2H Frost gems but there is a big difference in stat priority between Ret/Prot Paladins and DKs in general. Through T14 Haste was our best stat for Rune Regen purposes. Problem is that with ToT and onward we're simply generating too much Runic Power and Runes to spend them so Haste dropped a bit in viability compared to Crit and Mastery. Crit is further diminished for Frost in general due to how Killing Machine works (if only you could crit a crit). So that really only leaves Mastery but for 2h Frost the majority of the damage is still coming from auto-attacks and Obliterate which does not benefit from Frost's Mastery bonus of more Frost damage.

Then there's Ret/Prot Paladin who go for Haste melee hard cap because of how good 1 second Crusdaer Strike is for their rotation and Holy Power generation. Our main Prot Paladin tank is still using the HTF Horridon trinket for that very reason.

[DingDongKing]

That's a pretty fair point. I would think for Dual Wield and Unholy, you'd be gemming completely differently. Dual Wield would massively benefit from Mastery given Threat of Thassarian whilst you'd be wanting your dots to crit for Unholy, right?

[Deleted]

Masterfrost and Unholy do gem very differently.

Masterfrost goes for way more mastery while and unholy DK goes for a balanced build with a slight focus on crit. But going between 2H frost and Unholy is not that difficult since the gems and enchants usually are roughly the same.

[DingDongKing]

Ran a Patchwerk sim for the DK and it came back as 2.65 Crit, 2.62 Haste and 2.28 Mastery. Running a Reforge Plot for Haste now to check that. After doing another simulation, it shows up as Str > Haste ~= Crit > Mastery. Should I be reforging out of Mastery and into Haste?

[Trubo]

Ran a Patchwerk sim for the DK and it came back as 2.65 Crit, 2.62 Haste and 2.28 Mastery. Running a Reforge Plot for Haste now to check that. After doing another simulation, it shows up as Str > Haste ~= Crit > Mastery. Should I be reforging out of Mastery and into Haste?

Problem with Patchwerk sim is that Garrosh is nothing like Patchwerk in that there's too much movement so Haste is usually overvalued. Even if it weren't the case Haste only increases the number of auto-attacks (minor benefit) and rune regen (major) but I'm already resource capped with the haste I'm running.

[Maxweii]

Depending on your strat and how you approach the fight there's barely any downtime on Garrosh. I'll have my H Garrosh vid posted on the kill video thread soon if you wana see my approach, but at least to me that's a fight with little downtime, tons of runic from AMS, and plenty if passive cleave

[steelram]

Hi guys! I did a sim on my frost dk 2handed it said my dps should be ard 170k but I am dealing 110k to 120k is it normal? I got a some question on rotation. Should I ob or frost strike whenver I can or only use either one during km proc.. if only use it during km proc is mean that I always use ob to ensure my rune are recharging and stand by 1 frost and unholy for km proc. And frost strike only to prevent rune power cap. Sorry I cant link my armoury due to not enough post.

[Trubo]

Hi guys! I did a sim on my frost dk 2handed it said my dps should be ard 170k but I am dealing 110k to 120k is it normal? I got a some question on rotation. Should I ob or frost strike whenver I can or only use either one during km proc.. if only use it during km proc is mean that I always use ob to ensure my rune are recharging and stand by 1 frost and unholy for km proc. And frost strike only to prevent rune power cap. Sorry I cant link my armoury due to not enough post.

Sitting on Killing Machine procs has been mathed to be, at best, a dps wash compared to just burning them whenever you get them due to not being able to have multiple stacks of Killing Machine (i.e. you waste potential Killing Machine procs if you're not spending them quickly). As for the rest it shouldn't be that big a concern of watching your runes if you're at 8k-10k Haste (comfort level and talents mostly) as you should be nearly GCD capped between refreshing diseases, Obliterate, Frost Strike and Howling Blast procs.

[Headtaker]

If you run 2H frost, run haste to soft regen cap (I forget the number) and then run crit cause killing machine is less effective. If you are DW you reforge mastery all the way, in fact you reforge mastery into more mastery if it was possible. After mastery, haste is DW second stat. Unholy runs the same as 2H frost, but more balance between crit and haste because crit also affects the ghoul. As for gemming, 2H frost is str gems, unholy is str gems, and DW frost is a toss up but match sockets and split mastery and str where you can.

[bals]

If you run 2H frost, run haste to soft regen cap (I forget the number) and then run crit cause killing machine is less effective. If you are DW you reforge mastery all the way, in fact you reforge mastery into more mastery if it was possible. After mastery, haste is DW second stat. Unholy runs the same as 2H frost, but more balance between crit and haste because crit also affects the ghoul. As for gemming, 2H frost is str gems, unholy is str gems, and DW frost is a toss up but match sockets and split mastery and str where you can.

I don't even know where to begin with how much is wrong with this post

[Maxweii]

If you run 2H frost, run haste to soft regen cap (I forget the number) and then run crit cause killing machine is less effective. If you are DW you reforge mastery all the way, in fact you reforge mastery into more mastery if it was possible. After mastery, haste is DW second stat. Unholy runs the same as 2H frost, but more balance between crit and haste because crit also affects the ghoul. As for gemming, 2H frost is str gems, unholy is str gems, and DW frost is a toss up but match sockets and split mastery and str where you can.

I don't even know where to begin with how much is wrong with this post

I completly agree because I read it on my phone but now reading it at home is just a big bowl of what