Thread: Fix My DK DPS

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  1. #781
    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ntenora/simple
    Spec: Unholy
    World of Logs: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/985k79c6uqejqz67/ (The raid leader hasn't uploaded this weeks log, This is last weeks)

    Question (BE VERY SPECIFIC):
    I recently transitioned from a 10 man heroic guild to a guild starting 25 Heroic. I was originally Blood in the 10 man guild but this new guild wants me to DPS due to having enough tanks already. My DPS completely sucks, I have no clue where I'm going wrong or what I could do to improve. I would love some help, appreciated a lot.

    I understand the 4p is bad and can be replaced by warforged but my luck hasn't been that special in 10 or 25. My sim said I should be doing around 270k DPS but I'm doing around 220.

    Am I not using AMS to it's full potential?
    Is my rotation wrong?
    Am I wasting my cooldowns?
    Last edited by Antenora; 2014-04-23 at 11:08 PM.

  2. #782

    My Raid's DK needs some help

    Hey DK masters and experts,

    I run a 14/14H guild and our DK is starting to fall behind the guild in terms of DPS. I feel like he should be able to do more dps at his gear level but don't know what to look at as far as logs go. The characters name is Milz. If you could take a look at past Thursday and Monday's garrosh attempts that would be much appreciated. He says he does not have viable 1H's to go dual wield but he does have a heroic WF 2H currently.

    Swarm on Thrall
    http://www.warcraftlogs.com/guilds/4984/

  3. #783
    Personally, I haven't done heroic garrosh, so don't put too much stock in my words. BUT, after looking over the warcraftlogs for frost DKs on 10-man heroic garrosh, they are literally ALL DW frost, not 2h. Since this fight has lots of adds, I could see the extra cleave damage providing huge advantage (since DW spams howling blast, whereas 2H prioritizes obliterate). On more single-target fights, I believe that the two play styles are much more comparable. However, on second skimming of some of these meters, it looks like DW is the dominantly used play style among top DPS DKs by and large. At max gear levels, they may pull farther apart.

    So I'd suggest trying to get the guy some 1-handers. He's probably low even for 2H, but DW is easier to play anyway--if it's a player error issue, it should become even smaller as DW.

  4. #784
    Yeah for heroic progression, I would agree Dual Wield Frost or Unholy is the way to go, because they both have very high passive cleaving potential.

    Looking at the meters, the first thing I noticed is he might be able to use Pillar of Frost more often than he is using it, I see a 8 minute long wipe where he only used Pillar 7 times. Pillar has a 1 minute base cooldown so he should be able to use it more often, he should also get a cooldown reduction trinket, that drops it even lower to 30-40 seconds, which would allow much higher uptime on being effectively 20% stronger.

    The second thing I noticed is trinkets, I notice him gaining Cruelty buffs from the Skeer's Bloodsoaked Talisman trinket. This is the worst trinket this tier, a Thok's Tail amp trinket or Galakras cooldown reduction trinket is miles and miles better than a simple strength and crit chance proc trinket.
    Crit might be our best stat for 2-handed Frost or Unholy, but crit on proc is miles worse than reducing Pillar and Gargoyle Cooldowns or boosting haste mastery and crit strike damage bonus.
    _____________________________________________
    Also known as Kalrell ingame and @Kalrell on Twitters.

  5. #785
    I'm not so worried about the fight specifics, but rather what can be improved. He's tried DW and he's still low on DPS. I don't know what kind of uptimes on what abilities should be or what the damage breakdown per ability should be. More of the objective things I can tell him to fix rather than subjective.

    Edit:

    Weapons available to use: HWF Sha of Pride 2H and I think his 1H's are the H Iron Juggernaut ones

    Would the higher item level and better itemization of the sha of pride wep be better?
    Last edited by Traxion; 2014-04-29 at 03:33 PM.

  6. #786
    Quote Originally Posted by Traxion View Post
    I'm not so worried about the fight specifics, but rather what can be improved. He's tried DW and he's still low on DPS. I don't know what kind of uptimes on what abilities should be or what the damage breakdown per ability should be. More of the objective things I can tell him to fix rather than subjective.
    It's important that he understands the difference in priority when switching between dual wield and 2h though. If he just slaps on two one handers and uses the 2h rotation, he's going to see even lower damage than before.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If a building's about to collapse, you can debate whether it's better to demolish it or repair it, and you can make political-agenda arguments either way. Disputing gravity itself to claim it won't fall down is not a political position, it's just ignorance.

  7. #787
    it's pretty much impossible to tell from the fights you have logged.
    dks are low-mid on the dps rankings (assuming same skill/gear/etc). I mean loook at http://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings...rost&boss=1623 a top 100 ranking only has to do 256k damage
    also you should have posted here http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-Fix-My-DK-DPS

    looking at his armory he could switch a few talents around and change the glyph of ams to glyph of regenerative magic and pick up a couple thousand dps
    Last edited by bals; 2014-04-29 at 03:34 PM.

  8. #788
    http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/100485/

    Last big clear with him in was on 4/8.

    Sorry I've mainly just been a lurker on MMO-champ. A mod is more than welcome to move/lock this. Whatever is appropriate.

  9. #789
    from malk:
    blood plague uptime is terrible which really hurts 2hand frost

    ams usage is bad (switching to regenerative magic glyph will help, not sure if you have him soaking so he might just be holding on to the cd too much). he soaked 10 puddles and used ams 3 times so he is hardly ever having a cooldown on them so it's probably putting a lot of unnecessary stress on your healers. With galakras trinket and glyph of regenerative magic he can soak the 1st and 3rd puddle every time.

    pillar looks about right, maybe one more?
    runic corruption is the worst talent for rune regen
    no potions used
    as mentioned the skeers trinket is terrible, he should be using thok's trinket. Even flex version is better (maybe even lfr but not sure)
    unholy blight is not a good choice for malk.
    soul reaper usage is low but that's probably not too important


    not really sure what you mean by objective vs subject advice. all the tips above together will give a good dps increase
    Last edited by bals; 2014-04-29 at 04:03 PM.

  10. #790
    Mechagnome Challenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bals View Post
    from malk:
    blood plague uptime is terrible which really hurts 2hand frost

    ams usage is bad (switching to regenerative magic glyph will help, not sure if you have him soaking so he might just be holding on to the cd too much). he soaked 10 puddles and used ams 3 times so he is hardly ever having a cooldown on them so it's probably putting a lot of unnecessary stress on your healers. With galakras trinket and glyph of regenerative magic he can soak the 1st and 3rd puddle every time.

    pillar looks about right, maybe one more?
    runic corruption is the worst talent for rune regen
    no potions used
    as mentioned the skeers trinket is terrible, he should be using thok's trinket. Even flex version is better (maybe even lfr but not sure)
    unholy blight is not a good choice for malk.
    soul reaper usage is low but that's probably not too important


    not really sure what you mean by objective vs subject advice. all the tips above together will give a good dps increase
    Yeah I saw that HORRID disease uptime on malk and stoped looking.

    Your dk needs to look up some guilds or something. Also him being 2h he should really try unholy. Tell him to stop using unholy blight. Learn how to ams soak for extra RP at better and more frequent times. Tell him to learn how to use potions. corruption as 2h frost is awful.

  11. #791
    Keyboard Turner
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    Armory: Can't post a link, don't have enough posts. Toon's name is Cädbury on Nagrand US.
    Spec: DW Frost
    World of Logs: Haven't got any, which I know makes it difficult.

    Question (BE VERY SPECIFIC):
    I've recently switched to my DK from my Brewmaster Monk. Needed a change, and the ability to be a little easier to be replaced in a raid situation, given that I'm a mum of a 3 year old, and am currently pregnant with a second. :P I'm honestly wondering if there is something wrong with regards to my spec and the reforges and such. My dps just feels low for my 547 ilvl. I can burst at the start of the fight with AoD, Pillar, and Ghoul, followed up with Empowered Rune Weapon. I usually burst anywhere from 270-290k depending, but as soon as my cooldowns stop, my dps slowly ramps down, till it's at about 170-180k. 100k difference between burst and sustained? Is that usually what you would see, or does it sound like I'm doing something wrong? I wish I could post a log, but we just don't have them. I have my diseases up almost all the time, (lapse in concentration would be the only time they're off for an extended period of time) I use pillar on cooldown and try to pair it with ghoul when ghoul is available. I have taken obliterate out of my rotation, as from what I read, having the mastery that I'm at, it is actually detrimental to my rotation? Is that thinking correct?
    And and all advice, based on the limited information I can share with you all, would be extremely helpful.
    Thank you!

  12. #792
    The Patient BlackBoss's Avatar
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    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...riana/advanced My dk cannot make it past 160k. KM proccs almost constantly and i end up OB when it procs because I'm waiting on runic power for a FS. I spam HB when i have death runes or frost runes a available. I pop CD (synapes, POF) before i open up with outbreak, then i commence to HB till i get some RP for frost strike. I'm effing lost....
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  13. #793
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackBoss View Post
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...riana/advanced My dk cannot make it past 160k. KM proccs almost constantly and i end up OB when it procs because I'm waiting on runic power for a FS. I spam HB when i have death runes or frost runes a available. I pop CD (synapes, POF) before i open up with outbreak, then i commence to HB till i get some RP for frost strike. I'm effing lost....
    Well, one place to start is: ignore killing machine. There is a microscopic gain from timing it in a way that no human being could ever manage, and a loss from trying to time it otherwise. Let it go on whatever comes up next in the rotation, don't stress about it. Heck, I turned off the damn notification so I didn't feel like a loser every time I got it "wrong".

    I see you are 550, so you might find it beneficial to head to the "mastersimple" rotation where oblit basically just drops out of your rotation entirely. Focus on HB/FS/PS and go from there. In my testing no practical difference in performance was observed at 540-ish, and I actually *gained* DPS from this at 550 to 570. (It also means that "wasting" KM can't happen any more because only FS will consume it.

    You might consider plague leech, which as DW frost you can pretty much hit as another "gimme some runes" button any time you want, since disease application is rotational for you. If you use non-macro Blood Tap, pick any other talent, though RC or macro-BT would probably be optimal. BT is a gain when manually managed *correctly* and a big loss when not managed correctly. For a non-trivial number of people *cough* like me *cough* it turns out that you make mistakes just often enough with non-macro BT that you are better off not using it. That gain is easily eaten by rotational errors or delayed consumption. :/

    Otherwise, honestly, your described rotation sounds fine, so ... I don't know. Unless you run conversion or something, it seems like you should be delivering more than you do, and without logs it is hard to say what the right fix is. Maybe if you are worried, try something like Bitten's Spellflash: DK which will "recommend" the current theorycrafted rotation for you.

    Like any tool, it will not be more than 80 percent right at the best of times ... but getting to 80 percent seems like it might be reasonable to, y'know, confirm that you are using things right. That helps ensure that you are getting it basically right. (That specific addon I suggest because it does follow the current best practices for full and mastersimple rotations, so against patchwerk / a target dummy, it will guide you correctly. In the real world, yeah, not so simple, but whatevs

  14. #794
    High Overlord Axphyxiate's Avatar
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    Without logs it's pretty much impossible to tell whether you're doing anything wrong in regards to your rotation/priority. You might want to have a look at uploading your own logs, it's not too hard. Just some generic comments that may help though; make sure you pre-pot and pot again during the fight. Use AMS to soak magic damage for free runic power, with the regenerative magic glyph and the CD reduction trinket (when you get it) the CD on AMS is pretty short. Pool runes/blood tap charges/plague leech for upcoming aoe situations eg adds on Sha. Don't worry if your unholy runes go unused for long periods of time, so long as your blood plague is on the target.

    Have a read through some of the previous comments to make sure your ability priority is correct.

    Your gems seem fine. You're a bit over hit/expertise cap but it looks like that's as low as you can get them with your gear.

    I think your main issues are not having the legendary meta or legendary cloak. Both of these could see you a 5%+ dps increase pretty easily, more in AoE encounters. Also while your average ilvl is 547, you have some low ilvl items in some key slots like OH weapon and trinkets. Your Thok's Tail Tip is nice but it would be better if you upgraded it with valor. The Shado-Pan trinket is pretty shit compared to Evil Eye of Galakras. With the normal Evil Eye you get an almost 50% uptime on Pillar of Frost which should boost your dps up even more.

    Other than that you're missing some gem sockets due to low ilvl items. Missing 1 socket from not having legendary cloak, missing another socket in your legs, another one in your boots and 1 more in your ring.

    tl'dr: Your dps should increase with more gear.

    Hope this helps, if you have any other questions feel free to PM me or reply here
    Axphyxiate <Huehuehue> - 7/7HM 1/7Mythic
    Rank 19 US 10man / Rank 87 US 25man Siege of Orgrimmar

  15. #795
    The Patient BlackBoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlippyCheeze View Post
    Well, one place to start is: ignore killing machine. There is a microscopic gain from timing it in a way that no human being could ever manage, and a loss from trying to time it otherwise. Let it go on whatever comes up next in the rotation, don't stress about it. Heck, I turned off the damn notification so I didn't feel like a loser every time I got it "wrong".

    I see you are 550, so you might find it beneficial to head to the "mastersimple" rotation where oblit basically just drops out of your rotation entirely. Focus on HB/FS/PS and go from there. In my testing no practical difference in performance was observed at 540-ish, and I actually *gained* DPS from this at 550 to 570. (It also means that "wasting" KM can't happen any more because only FS will consume it.

    You might consider plague leech, which as DW frost you can pretty much hit as another "gimme some runes" button any time you want, since disease application is rotational for you. If you use non-macro Blood Tap, pick any other talent, though RC or macro-BT would probably be optimal. BT is a gain when manually managed *correctly* and a big loss when not managed correctly. For a non-trivial number of people *cough* like me *cough* it turns out that you make mistakes just often enough with non-macro BT that you are better off not using it. That gain is easily eaten by rotational errors or delayed consumption. :/

    Otherwise, honestly, your described rotation sounds fine, so ... I don't know. Unless you run conversion or something, it seems like you should be delivering more than you do, and without logs it is hard to say what the right fix is. Maybe if you are worried, try something like Bitten's Spellflash: DK which will "recommend" the current theorycrafted rotation for you.

    Like any tool, it will not be more than 80 percent right at the best of times ... but getting to 80 percent seems like it might be reasonable to, y'know, confirm that you are using things right. That helps ensure that you are getting it basically right. (That specific addon I suggest because it does follow the current best practices for full and mastersimple rotations, so against patchwerk / a target dummy, it will guide you correctly. In the real world, yeah, not so simple, but whatevs
    Thanks, tried this last night and i'm up in 260k-ish number now. I even watch the crash course video and they never mentioned obliterate, thanks man!
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  16. #796
    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lwinter/simple
    Spec: 2h Frost
    World of Logs: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...pe=damage-done

    My dps feels incredibly variable, and I'm struggling to identify what I am not doing / am doing in order to get a more consistent damage output. Any help much appreciated!

  17. #797
    High Overlord Siegmeyer's Avatar
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    Need advice for HC garrosh 10man dps

    So my guild will be extending until Garrosh is dead. what would the best spec to be playing as?
    i gave unholy a few tries but it felt like not enough burst for mcs and adds during jade temple intermission. so i went with 2hand frost but looking at my dps it feels bad even if we are getting the the SW phase. Would it be worth it going dual wield for Garrosh?
    i have a 4/4 upgraded hcwf 2hand weapon VS 2 heroic 1hand weapons 2/4 upgraded

    so stay 2h frost? give unholy more tries? or go and try DW?
    Last edited by Siegmeyer; 2014-05-21 at 10:42 PM.

  18. #798
    Bloodsail Admiral Hugh Wattmate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siegmeyer View Post
    So my guild will be extending until Garrosh is dead. what would the best spec to be playing as?
    i gave unholy a few tries but it felt like not enough burst for mcs and adds during jade temple intermission. so i went with 2hand frost but looking at my dps it feels bad even if we are getting the the SW phase. Would it be worth it going dual wield for Garrosh?
    i have a 4/4 upgraded hcwf 2hand weapon VS 2 heroic 1hand weapons 2/4 upgraded

    so stay 2h frost? give unholy more tries? or go and try DW?
    Could always reroll warrior even at allot lower ilvls you would outdps aoe and single target the DK with ease. DW is a good bet though should still pull ahead of 2h frost on that fight even with those weps.

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  19. #799
    Quote Originally Posted by Siegmeyer View Post
    So my guild will be extending until Garrosh is dead. what would the best spec to be playing as?
    i gave unholy a few tries but it felt like not enough burst for mcs and adds during jade temple intermission. so i went with 2hand frost but looking at my dps it feels bad even if we are getting the the SW phase. Would it be worth it going dual wield for Garrosh?
    i have a 4/4 upgraded hcwf 2hand weapon VS 2 heroic 1hand weapons 2/4 upgraded

    so stay 2h frost? give unholy more tries? or go and try DW?
    I used to play unholy on every fight, but i realised the dps an unholy DK does is 1st intermission is just not good enough. So for that fight i switched to DW frost for the burst AoE. If you can get past first intermission you've gotten far. The burst AoE is just amazing.

    Got it down yesterday
    Last edited by Kanj; 2014-05-22 at 10:12 AM.

  20. #800
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanj View Post
    I used to play unholy on every fight, but i realised the dps an unholy DK does is 1st intermission is just not good enough. So for that fight i switched to DW frost for the burst AoE. If you can get past first intermission you've gotten far. The burst AoE is just amazing.

    Got it down yesterday
    If you were having trouble as Unholy in T1 well... You were doing something wrong because I go Unholy and I'm one of the if heat damages to the adds there. It's all about timing SR.
    Congrats on the kill !

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