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  1. #1

    Spriests needs to be buffed (PvE)

    worst class in dps according to simulation craft (google simulationcraft)

    I play spriest as main, no matter what (singel target) fight, mages hunter warriors lock etc do 10-20k more dps

    gonna be hard to buff tho

    spriests are very strong in pvp

    I cant figure out anything how to buff PvE while not buffing PvP
    Last edited by Atfirst; 2012-12-23 at 12:57 PM.

  2. #2
    Lol simulationcraft.

    I can understand some fights (like Feng and Lei Shi) these other classes may be obliterating. This is expected and known, and we're hoping it gets buffed.

    If you're being obliterated by 20k on every fight its not the class but the player. Theres lots of small tricks that can be done on a lot of fights to boost your numbers, most of which comes down to efficient multi-dotting.

    Also, search key.

  3. #3
    The Patient Vanchak's Avatar
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    Another one of these threads... but seriously, as Gande said, if your consistently being beaten on every fight, it's your skill thats the problem, not the class, Fights like stone guard, Elegon, Will of the emperor is where we really shine, most other fights I find myself in the middle of the pack, sometimes a bit lower. Yes a buff might be nice in the areas we don't do very well in but I'm not expecting it tbh, it could of been done in 5.1

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Gande View Post
    Lol simulationcraft.

    I can understand some fights (like Feng and Lei Shi) these other classes may be obliterating. This is expected and known, and we're hoping it gets buffed.

    If you're being obliterated by 20k on every fight its not the class but the player. Theres lots of small tricks that can be done on a lot of fights to boost your numbers, most of which comes down to efficient multi-dotting.

    Also, search key.
    I usually top the dps the on multiple target fights like will of emperor and other similiar fight, multidotting is very strong while single target is very weak

  5. #5
    And is anyone not seeing a problem with having a strong single target and also multidot capabilities? You can't have the best from both worlds.

  6. #6
    I am sorry but 20k on single target fight is quite the average margin atm. A lock will do 110k+ on tayak, and a sp will barely hit 90k. So yeah 20k dps difference is the norm on single target fights. And buffing single target w/o touching pvp is easy, just buff mind flay. And make MB cd scale with haste like you first intended to, make DI not trigger MB cd and you get something viable.

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire Drfireburns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baalb View Post
    And is anyone not seeing a problem with having a strong single target and also multidot capabilities? You can't have the best from both worlds.
    Warlocks beg to differ.

  8. #8
    It is very annoying I can agree that we absolutely get crushed on single target, but i'm honestly overly happy with our utility. Our multidotting is strong, our aoe is finally up to par, and what other dps class has a single spell that sustains 40k hps throughout a fight like heroic garalon (divine star on 25 man is insane)?

    Having two of the trinity doing well with the third not terribly far behind, plus our utility, seems to be the spot the devs want us at.

  9. #9
    Im sorry but utility has no meaning, DPS should be equivalent through out the game, or the phrase "bring the player not the class" has no meaning. Currently taking a SP over a mage or a lock is just plain stupidity when they are remotely of the same skill level. And as far as utility goes, locks do as much self healing as we do raid healing, so they basically are their own healer... And a mana hymn that gives 12% mana back to your healer every 6min is some what of a joke.... lets not forget VE, it is the weakest raid heal atm, moonkin vigil and other stuff of the type heal for more(not by much but its still more in many many many cases).
    You say we bring utility, I say lock bring as much of that utility with healthstone, portals and a dps that will be its own self healer.

    I want our spec to be as competitive as lock in terms of dmg, may it be single or multi. I don't want my dps gimped by some stupid hybrid tax that blizz claim is long gone...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Falsified View Post
    I want our spec to be as competitive as lock in terms of dmg, may it be single or multi. I don't want my dps gimped by some stupid hybrid tax that blizz claim is long gone...
    The current quote from GC's twitter is that "Aff may be too high", which given past history we can probably take as "by the time 5.2 comes out we'll agree that aff is too high". So not necessarily a good spec to compare to atm...

    That said, I agree about the single target boost. A small boost to mind flay would do it though - shadow's still plenty strong the moment you can multi-dot.

  11. #11
    I'm not saying that spriest doesn't need a fix or two but you should not only look at simcraft, you should look at real logs to.

    Raidboots gives you the average dps from each class based on some of the best players in the World (getting there numbers from World of logs)
    Right now spirest got the fourth highest dps out of the eleven classes at 10-man heroic:
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...14/60/default/

    An they are 6 out of 11 at 25-man heroic:
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...14/30/default/

    Of course as with the simcrafts you shouldn't take does numbers as facts but they give a decent hint at the current state of the class and with 7 classes doing lower dps at 10-man heroic and 5 classes doing lower dps at 25-man heroic there are most likely other classes that are in bigger need of buffs then sprists (I'm not claiming that spriest are perfect or that they dosn't need any buffs just that there is other classes Blizzard should take a look at first).
    Last edited by Ater; 2012-12-23 at 01:27 PM.

  12. #12
    The Patient Vanchak's Avatar
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    The problem with buffing MF is it may bring MF's DPET value higher than a FDCL proc, which would make Mindbender the only viable talent of that tier, of course they could buff FDCL proc damage, but they would have to buff Mindbender as well, not sure they would go that way tbh. Making MB cd scale with haste is a good start I think.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Falsified View Post
    Im sorry but utility has no meaning, DPS should be equivalent through out the game, or the phrase "bring the player not the class" has no meaning. Currently taking a SP over a mage or a lock is just plain stupidity when they are remotely of the same skill level. And as far as utility goes, locks do as much self healing as we do raid healing, so they basically are their own healer... And a mana hymn that gives 12% mana back to your healer every 6min is some what of a joke.... lets not forget VE, it is the weakest raid heal atm, moonkin vigil and other stuff of the type heal for more(not by much but its still more in many many many cases).
    You say we bring utility, I say lock bring as much of that utility with healthstone, portals and a dps that will be its own self healer.

    I want our spec to be as competitive as lock in terms of dmg, may it be single or multi. I don't want my dps gimped by some stupid hybrid tax that blizz claim is long gone...
    You can reroll a lock then.

    I'm not saying our utility is the only thing saving our skins as to a reason to bring us, simply a nice benefit.

    Also since you're picking and choosing, self healing is nice and all, enjoy the rest of your raid dying.

  14. #14
    I do not see why everyone says our multi-dotting capabilities are great and that is where we shine. Our dots do less damage than fire, boomkin or affliction. The only fights where we are competative(and we are very very good in those) are the ones where we can have a large uptime on Twist of Fate. It is not the spreading of dots around, it is the fact we do 10% less than other dps classes, and with ToF regularly up we are sweet. Take SG hc for example, 10 or 25man.

  15. #15
    We need a gameplay buff, not a dps one. T12(4) MS burst rotation was cool in that regard and should inpire blizz IMO. That would give us a CD and some burst, which we lack right now.

    Single target gameplay is awful, even with FDCL and DI (which are probably not those you should take for single target anyway).

    I'm fine with overall dps (we shouldn't compare to afflock, which obviously needs a nerf). I'm ok with doing good dps on some fights and average on others (even if single target could be better).

  16. #16
    Thank you I do have a lock ready to pass main at 5.2 if things stay the same, currently 488ilvl and doing more dmg than my SP at 502 ilvl.
    And jobby is right, the only fights were we are worth a damn is where we get 60%+ uptime on ToF, such as elegon/unsok/protectors. We are extremly crappy on empress for example, and there is a lot of multi doting going on. Same goes for Windlord, we are decent on the aoe phase, but we suck the big one on the burst phase. Some classes pull over 2.5m dps during bloodlust, we will never go higher than 1m.

    Sp are currently the caster that benefits the less from blood lust, (maybe not with DI) since in most case we cannot squeeze in 2 DP(or very very rarely). Which is down right idiotic. OFC this is BL on pull, we benefit from it massively during execute phase. But there are not many bosses where you bl on the last 20% anymore.

    I also don't agree that the fix to our class should be done through pve set bonuses. That's the lazy way to fix an issue. They have been doing this for years now and I am sick of it.

    @ Gande, every heal you manage to do on yourself is a heal that can go on someone else, by having 10k hps on selfheal, locks basically offer 10k hps to the rest of the raid.(a little less true, but you get the idea).
    Last edited by Falsified; 2012-12-23 at 06:34 PM.

  17. #17
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
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    We don't need a buff but I do think we should get a small one.
    Also I want a real cool down again sadface

  18. #18
    I honestly believe the only place shadow priests are lacking is a bit (and I mean a small amount) in single target, as well as on heavy movement fights. I strongly believe mind flay should be castable while moving. Warlocks get maleific grasp and ele shamans have lightning bolt (both filler spells that can be casted while moving).

    Oh and our lack of an actual CD other than SF/MB.

  19. #19
    Priests don't necessarily need to be brought up so much as warlocks need to be knocked down a peg. Every other ranged class is within an acceptable margin now that mages have taken a big hit. The only two things I expect to see at the end of the 5.2 ptr are a slight (think 10%) mf buff and SWI being completely reworked. Useless talents are getting axed/retooled across all classes and you can be sure SWI will see a change. Our single target could use a buff, yea, but shadow's biggest weakness this whole tier has been the fact that mages and locks have been godmode. The flip side is that if you normalized the damage across these classes, shadow becomes the de facto best caster with their added utility. Not that I advocate utility being good tradeoff for poor dps, but something has to give and I don't know that I'm any more keen on other classes getting Hymns or healing cd's. Just wait for the dps outliers to get their nerfs and shadow will appear much more attractive.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Falsified View Post
    Thank you I do have a lock ready to pass main at 5.2 if things stay the same, currently 488ilvl and doing more dmg than my SP at 502 ilvl.
    And jobby is right, the only fights were we are worth a damn is where we get 60%+ uptime on ToF, such as elegon/unsok/protectors. We are extremly crappy on empress for example, and there is a lot of multi doting going on. Same goes for Windlord, we are decent on the aoe phase, but we suck the big one on the burst phase. Some classes pull over 2.5m dps during bloodlust, we will never go higher than 1m.

    Sp are currently the caster that benefits the less from blood lust, (maybe not with DI) since in most case we cannot squeeze in 2 DP(or very very rarely). Which is down right idiotic. OFC this is BL on pull, we benefit from it massively during execute phase. But there are not many bosses where you bl on the last 20% anymore.

    I also don't agree that the fix to our class should be done through pve set bonuses. That's the lazy way to fix an issue. They have been doing this for years now and I am sick of it.

    @ Gande, every heal you manage to do on yourself is a heal that can go on someone else, by having 10k hps on selfheal, locks basically offer 10k hps to the rest of the raid.(a little less true, but you get the idea).

    100% this there is absolutely no reason to bring a SP when a lock 20 item levels lower can do more dps and utility
    In the same boat as you have a 501 Ilvl shadow that will be riding the bench if nothing changes.
    Last edited by Entyice; 2012-12-23 at 09:40 PM.

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