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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    I like having generally more on-demand ranged attacks than other melee, especially ranged that doesn't have a cast time.

    Also I think my holy-cow looks freakin' awesome whenever I use Templar's Verdict and while I wish we had more DPS or that our DPS wasn't tied to burst cooldowns I also know that we're all essentially playing with dolls (or action figures for y'all living in denial) and looking cool is one of the most important aspects of the game to me.
    Yeah my ret has the best transmog gear (next to my priest) which is always nice

  2. #22
    my monk is making it extremely tempting to switch mains.

    getting tired of blizz's hands off approach to the class.

  3. #23
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    Sounds like ret just isn't the class for you.

    I don't PvE, I PvP only. But, that being said, I find Ret insanely enjoyable. In terms of PvP we're highly disregarded currently and a good ret will stomp through opponents in low arena/2k rbgs.

    I noticed you were not considering lvl 90 talents as part of your rotation... holy prism is defnitely a dps gain especially in your downtime. As I said, I don't often pve but I am aware of the small downtime, this is when you throw in holy prism.

    Also, sorry if this is insulting, but I want to make sure you're not using your hp until you are at 5, or in your downtime of cs/judgment/exorcism. You waste a lot of DPS (and multiply your downtime) if you're not managing hp properly.

    @Moradim: I'm a glass half full kind of guy, so maybe this is just my optimisim. However, Devs have said they are happy with where rets are. They are NOT, however, happy with numerous burst classes and heals. They are just being UNGODLY slow on their nerfs. I truly believe as time goes on we'll find rets being much better in general as the heavy burst other classes offer will be mitigated. I truly do not think there is anything wrong with the class - though of course I'd love inquisition to be passive and kings on the same CD as wrath =)

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Harakhte View Post
    Sounds like ret just isn't the class for you.

    I don't PvE, I PvP only. But, that being said, I find Ret insanely enjoyable. In terms of PvP we're highly disregarded currently and a good ret will stomp through opponents in low arena/2k rbgs.

    I noticed you were not considering lvl 90 talents as part of your rotation... holy prism is defnitely a dps gain especially in your downtime. As I said, I don't often pve but I am aware of the small downtime, this is when you throw in holy prism.

    Also, sorry if this is insulting, but I want to make sure you're not using your hp until you are at 5, or in your downtime of cs/judgment/exorcism. You waste a lot of DPS (and multiply your downtime) if you're not managing hp properly.

    @Moradim: I'm a glass half full kind of guy, so maybe this is just my optimisim. However, Devs have said they are happy with where rets are. They are NOT, however, happy with numerous burst classes and heals. They are just being UNGODLY slow on their nerfs. I truly believe as time goes on we'll find rets being much better in general as the heavy burst other classes offer will be mitigated. I truly do not think there is anything wrong with the class - though of course I'd love inquisition to be passive and kings on the same CD as wrath =)
    PvE ret uses execution sentence single target, and yes its part of the rotation. No insult taken, but yeah I'm good on the rotation.

  5. #25
    High Overlord Strear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    I'm curious what other ret paladins out there enjoy about the class.
    What do I enjoy ? First, I chose the paladin because of te background. I don't think any other class has as much prestige as the paladin. The holy warrior, the leader of battles. Many of the Alliance heroes are paladins. That's it " Hero " ... the paladin is, for me, THE hero class.

    So that was my basic choice, before pixels, stats & numbers, and probably why I keep playing it with a feeling of playing a very colourful character, with a background and a story.

    I mostly PVP, so ... in fact I only PVP. Everything is situational in PVP. I think we have a great burst, good offheals, and a lot of utility for our teammates. I survive well, in group or alone, and do decent damage. Our toolkit isn't too complicated, but has great possibilities I think. You have to make choices, instead of tunneling and " DPS " as I do with my warrior on a target. With the paladin, the choice is wider, freeing someone with a hof, bringing a heal, bubbling a friendly healer .... many things can be done in a dedicated situation.

    Variety, I think that's it, variety in roles temporarily fill and things you can do. I tried Palaheal, but I gave up, watching healbars isn't my cup of tea, and I found the palaheal monoton. Tank, in PVP, warriors are far better than paladins in RBGs, but I think a better palatank in PVP would have been a great option if available.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    I simmed myself at 9% downtime which is absurd (in my opinion) for a non-energy class.
    So, if you didnt have that one free gcd out of 10, would rotation suddenly become less simple and boring?

  7. #27
    One thing to remember here is that scaling is going to get rather out of control pretty quickly this expac. The stat inflation that was put in to keep folks from using their heroic DS gear up through 90 and into raids and heroics as well as LFR has meant that each tier of gear is going to crush each tier below it in terms of just base stats. All this is only made worse by the doubling up of secondary stats.

    So while I think we're still looking at "man I got X weapon and now I have a 5% increase!" That 5% used to be tiny - like going 5% faster through a school zone. Now it's 5% faster when going down a straight road in Montana while all the cops are on strike. Proportionately the same but far more raw numbers.

    In other words, if you don't like it now try coming back towards the end of expansion. You'll be able to gear up pretty fast and you'll see some major changes!

  8. #28
    I like having survivability for myself and the raid. I tend to take my time and throw some heals and that is the kind of playstyle I enjoy. And to be honest, throwing offheals and using my utility on others made me stand out a lot more than the generic people who DPS, and people seem to appreciate that.

    Even though ret is not always where it should stand, I definitely enjoy it as a class that is very strong in groups. Stronger than some people tend to believe.

    On warcraftmovies I found a great example of why I love Paladins so much. http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=226079

    That PvP movie reminded me why I play a Paladin, why I PvP as a Paladin, and why I still play this game: I enjoy it, the poeple around me enjoy it and keep me motivated. I had my doubts recently about playing a Paladin, but then those people keep reminding me that the class I have been playing for 6-7 years is a great one, even in dark times of 'You can't play ret, it sucks'
    Last edited by ExtremeActionTess; 2013-01-13 at 12:42 AM.

  9. #29
    I don't. Thats why I call it my Quest Spec.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasya111 View Post
    So, if you didnt have that one free gcd out of 10, would rotation suddenly become less simple and boring?
    given the current mechanics of our 3 primary holy power generators, I'm not sure. As a caster, having to always be casting adds an element of pressure that I don't feel as ret. Similarly, as an energy user, you have to do some mental juggling to optimize situational energy use. I can always see where I can improve on other classes and that gives me something to work towards, whereas as ret there really isnt much I could do differently. I think if they removed the cooldowns on some of our abilities but GCD capped us with our rotation, it would probably feel a lot more natural (at least to me).

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-12 at 08:34 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ExtremeActionTess View Post
    I like having survivability for myself and the raid.
    Rets actually have very poor utility healing compared to other hybrid classes. I went on WoL to illustrate my point and found the first Garalon 10m that had a ret in it (because there is always room for offhealing on that fight). 1k HPS, barely any at all, and that was just a random one. A dps warrior does more healing than him. On my feral I would heal for 8-10k just throwing out healing touches from predator's swiftness. The top 10N Garalon US ret dps does ZERO healing. He's obviously a good player, but ret's healing is so bad that you're better off *not even using it* because other classes can do it better and lose less dps (or none).

  11. #31
    Someone with a too parse also probably has healers with him that can do without that 1k hps or whatever. This guy here is about what he enjoys, and how he feels doing it.

  12. #32
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    Hand of Purity and Hand of Protection were prolly the strongest utility this tier in game.... Having selfless healer offheals saving people's asses is nice too.
    WoW = Retired Main: Ret Alt(s): War , DK

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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    Hand of Purity and Hand of Protection were prolly the strongest utility this tier in game.... Having selfless healer offheals saving people's asses is nice too.
    Yes, but I'm not sure I'm interested in playing a class to be a HoP bot, and selfless healer is pathetically weak compared to other classes offhealing - as I keep mentioning. If I wanted to have good spot healing utility I'd switch to my feral.

  14. #34
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    Yes, but I'm not sure I'm interested in playing a class to be a HoP bot, and selfless healer is pathetically weak compared to other classes offhealing - as I keep mentioning. If I wanted to have good spot healing utility I'd switch to my feral.
    You questioned utility, I answered: out of all hybrids in game ours is the strongest/widest and most gamebreaking.
    Ret has no excuse to complain about the state and throughput of their dps this tier sadly. Maybe it's the class and its style itself that isn't right for you.
    Last edited by Neldarie; 2013-01-13 at 02:30 AM.
    WoW = Retired Main: Ret Alt(s): War , DK

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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    You questioned utility, I answered: out of all hybrids in game ours is the strongest/widest and most gamebreaking.
    Ret has no excuse to complain about the state and throughput of their dps this tier sadly. Maybe it's the class and its style itself that isn't right for you.
    You say strongest, I say gimmicky, but if blizzard continues to add physical raid damage (which was abnormal until this tier) then keeping that utility is worthwhile I suppose.

    And yes.. that was my initial question, I'm fully aware of its potential both in damage and utility but I'm still not enjoying it, so I wanted to hear what others enjoy about the class.

  16. #36
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    My answer would be simple: Its style and uniqueness.
    WoW = Retired Main: Ret Alt(s): War , DK

    Diablo3

  17. #37
    Not the best class but not the worst.
    Yes there is some downtime, but not as high as you claim. Even then, there is usually something you could be doing during that downtime to benefit the raid which does not impact on DPS. For example I see you have picked up Sacred Shield, but your logs show you rarely use it. Yeah It is less enjoyable than doing something to increase personal DPS, but its still a raid benefit and it's just how ret works.
    I enjoy playing it during the 2 fights I go Ret for, but couldn't see me playing it 'full-time'.
    Last edited by Ishau; 2013-01-13 at 06:55 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    In brief - currently I do not enjoy ret even slightly and am contemplating the heavy decision of switching mains. I originally swapped to my paladin to heal (and did pretty damn well at it) but one of our raiders hated his warrior and wanted to heal on a monk. In retrospect, I regret flexing to allow it, but its too late now.

    My dps is okay, in the few weeks I've been ret I've crept from horrible to 'keeping up with people of similar gear'. But at no point has it been fun. I find ret's rotation the most boring and nearly the easiest of any class I've ever played (8 classes, 5 of which I've raided with). Fire mage is even easier, but at least you get to shoot fire and see massive crits all the time. I simmed myself at 9% downtime which is absurd (in my opinion) for a non-energy class.


    So obviously not every class is going to be fun for everyone, but I'm curious what other ret paladins out there enjoy about the class. Maybe I'm just missing some aspect of it that would change my mind - and part of me hopes that's the case so I don't have to switch.

    Any and all thoughts welcome :]
    Do you hate ret because it's not fun or do you hate ret because you believe the damage is low? I think you should play what ever class you enjoy the mechanics of, because all classes go through nerfs and buffs to numbers. You can't just change mains every time simcraft says something you don't like.
    Humans are the only species on the planet smart enough to be this stupid.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishau View Post
    Not the best class but not the worst.
    Yes there is some downtime, but not as high as you claim. Even then, there is usually something you could be doing during that downtime to benefit the raid which does not impact on DPS. For example I see you have picked up Sacred Shield, but your logs show you rarely use it. Yeah It is less enjoyable than doing something to increase personal DPS, but its still a raid benefit and it's just how ret works.
    I enjoy playing it during the 2 fights I go Ret for, but couldn't see me playing it 'full-time'.
    Yeah I do have room for improvement such as using sacred shield during downtime, better use of DP etc

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