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  1. #21
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    Still, fel taint only happen when you consume fel magic to feed Demon hunters, nor warlocks, consume fel magic as blood elves do.
    Being around fel energy causes corruption. You do not have to actively utilize it. See: Frostwolf Clan, Broken, and

    "Even so, the prince's relatively quick acceptance of dire measures (e.g., draining magic from demons) is by no means characteristic of blood elves in general. The blood elves of Outland have by now discovered Kael'thas' agreement with Illidan, and they have for the most part become convinced of its necessity. Most blood elves still live on Azeroth, though. Few of these elves know of Kael'thas' pact with Illidan, and many would be horrified if they discovered it. Draining magic from small mana-bearing vermin is a far cry from draining magic from demons. Yet, as their hunger grows, blood elves--particularly those in Outland--are becoming increasingly inured to the things they must do in order to obtain more magic"
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Rockwood View Post
    Night elves are flip floppers. They hated the Highborne because they are the ones w/ Azshara started the War of the Ancients yet
    in Cata, they welcomed them back in Night Elf society.
    So like I said in a previous post, Night elves would view Nelf demon hunters like
    Thrall's Orcs view Orc Warlocks. Thrall's Horde hates warlocks cause they are the ones who caused
    the demon corruption of the orcs yet they train warlocks who use their skills to fight the legion.
    Night elf demon hunters would be viewed the same.
    I didn't say anything to the contrary. But no, Night Elves are not flip floppers. That's just empty minded rhetoric that ignores context. That shit floats in politics but no in the real world. You don't get called a flip flopper for changing after ten thousand years. 100 centuries. You have to just ignore context to say something like that.
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  3. #23
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    Being around fel energy causes corruption. You do not have to actively utilize it. See: Frostwolf Clan, Broken, and

    "Even so, the prince's relatively quick acceptance of dire measures (e.g., draining magic from demons) is by no means characteristic of blood elves in general. The blood elves of Outland have by now discovered Kael'thas' agreement with Illidan, and they have for the most part become convinced of its necessity. Most blood elves still live on Azeroth, though. Few of these elves know of Kael'thas' pact with Illidan, and many would be horrified if they discovered it. Draining magic from small mana-bearing vermin is a far cry from draining magic from demons. Yet, as their hunger grows, blood elves--particularly those in Outland--are becoming increasingly inured to the things they must do in order to obtain more magic"
    In the exact following line I said that eye color change could happen anyway.

    But you miss the fact that these physiological changes to orcs, broken and draenei have happened not just because mere closeness to fel magic, but to it being introduced to the environment in vast cuantities. If it was that easy, it would cause physiological differences to any warlock an anyone close to a warlock.

    With the orcs and draenei is a case of magnitude. The orcs got green when demonic magic became their number one weapon. The utterly abused it and it got everywhere. Their magic were so volatile and used so indiscriminately that tainted the skin of their race by proximity exposure and warped the draenei into broken when directly used. But this is because it was butloads of fel magic.

    The blood elven eyes are similar, tho fel magic wasn't rampant in this case, as it was used to power silvermoon and quel'thalas, after being siphoned and refined. It was a lot of energy, but the precautions made the side effects much lesser.

    As we have seen, warlocks do not change near as much, nor theyr corrupt by proximity. I think it's most likely because the levels of fel are much lower. Think of it as radiation. Warlocks would be regular but slow beep, what changed the orcs and draenei would break the geiger counter; blood elves would be between this.

    Now what I meant in my previous post. Would high elves eyes turn green anyway? maybe. elven eyes could be more susceptible to magic cause alterations, or maybe not.

  4. #24
    High Overlord Rockwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    So many nopes in this post! Basically, you are quite wrong.

    Let's debunk this!

    So, firstly: a high elf that consumes fel energy to satiate their thirst becomes a blood elf. That is true, if only technically they would gain green eyes, yes, but the differences between blood and high elves are also political. It would just make them a high elf with green eyes if he remains loyal to the alliance; (the blood elf moniker comes from the renaming Kael'thas did after the third war.) It won't automatically make them change factions.

    Still, fel taint only happen when you consume fel magic to feed Demon hunters, nor warlocks, consume fel magic as blood elves do. They just use it. Would this still change their eye color? most likely. Could a simple spell be deviced to hide this fact? there are flying cities in this world.

    Oh, and high elves already can become warlocks according to the game, just talk to the warlock trainer in Dalaran.

    And what up with Rogues and Death Knights?? There's also several helven rogues in game (why would they be against stealth anyway??) and about death knights it only takes the same moral dilemma that separated blood elves into high elves in the first place.

    These are facts.

    High elves don't have pros (you could even paint kaldorei heritage as a pro) or cons to become Demon Hunters, who are supposed to be a fringe society . They are in equal ground to any other race that could become Demon Hunters.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-12 at 07:39 AM ----------



    Nelves are not "flip-floppers", it was a calculated compromise to bloster their forces. They have worked several years now with races that use the arcane without flipping their shit, maybe their understand that it can be used relatively safely (not that it matters, everybody knows that the legion has it's eyes on azeroth). Do not mistake strategy with loose morals.

    high elves have none of the prejudice for the arcane night elves have, in fact, they glorify it. High elves already have warlocks, why would they be more against demon hunters than night elves? It doesn't make any sense.
    Yeah ... That's not true.

    Just because there is one high-elf warlock in the game doesn't mean that there are high-elf warlocks.
    If just one npc meant that it was regular for that race to become that class, I would have a Blood elf druid.
    If you up read up on lore, you find that certain classes are rare within certain races.
    Some examples are:
    Tauren Rogues - there are some sneaky grimtotems.
    High elf paladins - out of all the paladins in game ... there are only 2 high elf paladins
    High elf warlock - only one.
    Human druids - Harvest witches

    Since you are basing your arguments on NPCs there are no high elf death knights
    only blood elf death knights.

    I included rogues because of a reason you have named. Political.
    Before the third war, High elves deemed rogues unhonorable and
    thus High elf society had none and had no need for any.
    Also for a side note: Hunters can also camouflage and Mages can go Invisible.
    So high elves that are invisible doesn't mean they are rogues.

    High elves are not called blood elves because of different morals.
    Blood elves will do anything to survive, High elves won't.
    The high elves of Quel'Lithien Lodge became wretched before
    lowering themselves to taking demon energy like the blood elves.

    Demon hunters use demon energy in order make them stronger.
    So you are implying that high elves would use demon energy to
    make them stronger but not to survive ? That simply doesn't
    make any sense and is a very slipper slope you are walking on.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyviroth View Post
    According to the RPG books, which is essentially the only piece of lore on Demon Hunters as a class, anyone can be one; they just have to follow a special ritual in which they gouge their own eyes out with a fel-magic dagger to gain "Illidan's Eyes", and then some martial training. However, Night and Blood Elves are the most common.
    The RPG books are not at all cannon.

  6. #26
    Warchief TheDangerZone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockwood View Post
    Yeah ... That's not true.

    Just because there is one high-elf warlock in the game doesn't mean that there are high-elf warlocks.
    If just one npc meant that it was regular for that race to become that class, I would have a Blood elf druid.
    If you up read up on lore, you find that certain classes are rare within certain races.
    Some examples are:
    Tauren Rogues - there are some sneaky grimtotems.
    High elf paladins - out of all the paladins in game ... there are only 2 high elf paladins
    High elf warlock - only one.
    Human druids - Harvest witches

    Since you are basing your arguments on NPCs there are no high elf death knights
    only blood elf death knights.

    I included rogues because of a reason you have named. Political.
    Before the third war, High elves deemed rogues unhonorable and
    thus High elf society had none and had no need for any.
    Also for a side note: Hunters can also camouflage and Mages can go Invisible.
    So high elves that are invisible doesn't mean they are rogues.

    High elves are not called blood elves because of different morals.
    Blood elves will do anything to survive, High elves won't.
    The high elves of Quel'Lithien Lodge became wretched before
    lowering themselves to taking demon energy like the blood elves.

    Demon hunters use demon energy in order make them stronger.
    So you are implying that high elves would use demon energy to
    make them stronger but not to survive ? That simply doesn't
    make any sense and is a very slipper slope you are walking on.
    It is, it so very is.

    Obvioulsy I'm using the game where lore is unsufficient to make a point. Blizzard deemed poignant to show that there are high elf, silver covenant warlocks. It's not the same that a hostime botanist high on arcane crack.

    Fact is, there isn't lore against high elf warlocks. Controlling demonic energies is not the same that feeding from them. The line that separates blood elves fromhigh elves isn't crossed.

    Where do you get your information that high elves considered rogues "disonorable"? More so, where do you get the idea that high elves are more honorable than other races? I think you are confusing WoW high elves with other high elves.

    You basically described morals on the reason why blood elves and high elves are different. I don't know why are you contesting me on that; they have different ethics.

    Yes, I am saying that high elves could USE demonic energy on their advantage, but not FEED on it. It's an ethic difference and a key point of what separates HE from BE.

    There is a warlock, sanctioned by the Silver covenant; that tells us that they do not fear fighting fire by fire. It's not about succumbing to addiction.

  7. #27
    High Overlord Rockwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amonra View Post
    It is, it so very is.

    Obvioulsy I'm using the game where lore is unsufficient to make a point. Blizzard deemed poignant to show that there are high elf, silver covenant warlocks. It's not the same that a hostime botanist high on arcane crack.

    Fact is, there isn't lore against high elf warlocks. Controlling demonic energies is not the same that feeding from them. The line that separates blood elves fromhigh elves isn't crossed.

    Where do you get your information that high elves considered rogues "disonorable"? More so, where do you get the idea that high elves are more honorable than other races? I think you are confusing WoW high elves with other high elves.

    You basically described morals on the reason why blood elves and high elves are different. I don't know why are you contesting me on that; they have different ethics.

    Yes, I am saying that high elves could USE demonic energy on their advantage, but not FEED on it. It's an ethic difference and a key point of what separates HE from BE.

    There is a warlock, sanctioned by the Silver covenant; that tells us that they do not fear fighting fire by fire. It's not about succumbing to addiction.
    I am contesting that High elves look down upon blood elves. The leader of the high elves Vereesa does so time after time.
    In 5.2 She helped Jaina kill ALL blood elves that were trying to leave instead of surrendering in Dalaran.

    Premise 1: High elves are against using demonic energy to make themselves stronger.
    They openly opposed The Blood elves were using demonic energy to make
    themselves stronger after the sunwell was destroyed.

    Premise 2: Demon hunters use demonic energy to make themselves stronger.

    Conclusion: High elves would be opposed to becoming demon hunters

    That is philosophy 101

  8. #28
    The Lightbringer prwraith's Avatar
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    How cool would it be from an RP perspective if they took the class system a tad further, if you put in the time and hung around fel energy infused places you could alter your class skillset. But alas that'll never happen in this game.
    Hate people who read https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ and immediately think they're debate kings.

  9. #29
    High Elf society would not welcome demon hunters.

    Demon hunters by definition come from societies where what they are doing is opposed and is forbidden.

    Claiming a race would not be a demon hunter because their society shuns such a thing is nonsensical.
    Night Elf society shuns demonic magic more than High Elf society, this is a fact, whether you want to call them flip floppers or not. Their shift of view over magi in Cataclysm has nothing to do with why night elves created demon hunters.

    No society in WOW beyond the most extreme would look kindly on someone who ritually cuts out their own eyes and binds a demon to them so they can kill demons better.

    It would basically be the same thing as deathknights or warlocks.
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  10. #30
    High Overlord Rockwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post
    Claiming a race would not be a demon hunter because their society shuns such a thing is nonsensical.
    Then why don't we see playable Tauren or Draenei rogues or warlocks ?
    .... It is because their society shuns it.

    Lorewise they would have nightelves accept demon hunters back just like
    they accepted the highborne mages.

    We do not know if all Demon hunters cut out their eyes. There are demon hunters with eyes around BT.

  11. #31
    Stood in the Fire Flalia4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post
    Dude, the community mocks and makes fun of every race for one reason or another, it's just silly the way people come into this community now and "learn" to hate certain races. Every race in this game is fucking bad ass, stereotypes are stereotypes. WOW is made up of 2 worlds, the serious world of the cinematics and the concept art and the history and the lore, and then there is a 4th wall breaking aspect to it that is anachronistic and made up of classic tropes and spoofs where the character models are realized in silly and goofy ways that make them look like Disney cartoons.

    They both exist overlapping each other, but they are also distinct.

    You really need to ignore what the community thinks of a race when it comes to judging stuff like this. It's a joke that went too far.
    Look personally I like blood elves. If i ever went horde I'd probably faction change my character into a blood elf. I just think alliance should get a race that's more then just lolblueeyesandalliance!

  12. #32
    The Lightbringer prwraith's Avatar
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    Just because society shuns it does not mean it doesn't exist. or rather that it can't exist.
    Hate people who read https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ and immediately think they're debate kings.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post
    Demon Hunters are vague in lore. They started out being an ancient order of demon hunters which Illidan appeared to dress in their style or they were imitating him, it wasn't really known, WC3's manual spoke of them as if they were an ancient clandestine warrior cult. Then Knaack wrote the Well of Eternity trilogy and suddenly Illidan was blinded against his will by Sargeras and all of his iconic physical details and fighting ability became incidental, which in turn made out all demon hunters to seem like they all are just imitating Illidan, which always seemed a bad thing in my opinion.

    As of Cata, we now learn of an ancient order of demon hunters among the Kaldorei named the Dark Embrace. They and the Illidari seem to be the only ones we know of at this point.

    In the RPG, anyone could be one, and they seemed to be imitating Illidan.

    I would prefer it if Blizzard retcons things to have Illidan dressing in the vestments of an established ancient order of Kaldorei fighters in some way rather than all demon hunters being Illidan wannabes. But I just want to know more about the Dark Embrace in the end.

    I imagine anyone who hates demons enough to cut out their own eyes and bind a demonic essence to their soul needs a very good reason.
    I don't remember anywhere in WC3 that stated that there seemed to be DH organization. If I remember right demon hunter were not even said in detail. It's just what Illidan was. Illidan is likely the first DH because he was in WotA era and Azerotian knew that demons exist first in WotA era.

  14. #34
    Taking the road to Fel corruption is not a racial chose but a personal choice for individuals. In that case anyone can be a demon hunter. Night Elves are the number1 enemy of anything related to Demonic magic yet Illidan emerged as the founder of Demon Hunter society out of them. In Outlands there are corrupted orcs and uncorrupted orcs. Fuck, even in Netherstorm there is that Draenei paladin who before our very own eyes leaves his order due to loss of faith and sides with Socrethar the Demon. From technical point, anybody who makes that abysmal decision can become a Demon Hunter, "if" they can pass all the training and survive it without a mental health loss(example: leotheras the blind). But lorewise, the only races that have been in contact with demons to know them DEEP WITHIN very well are The Eredar/Draenei(From millions of years ago?), Night Elves(since the War of the Ancients days), Orcs(Since the corruption of Draenor) and Blood Elves(Since the Burning Crusade days). So if there are going to be demon hunter races in the game, that should be of these four and no others.

  15. #35
    The Lightbringer prwraith's Avatar
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    Now that would be a cool way to put a class in wow. At any point during a chars career he can choose to absorb fel energy and permanently transform into a demon hunter.
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  16. #36
    High Overlord Rockwood's Avatar
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    Personally I think if they do Demon hunter as a class they need to make it another Hero class.

    starting lvl 65 to 68 when leave the starting zone: No one wants to do BC questing anymore.

    Races: Every race but Tauren, Draenei, and Pandas

    They would probably wear agi leather like druids, rogues, and monks but
    personally I would love for them go intel cloth or agi mail but thats just me.

    They would have 1 tanking spec and 2 DPS specs.

    All demon hunter characters come with a mandatory blindfold that can be
    color changed at the barber.

    I think it would be cool to have an Instanced shadowmoon valley that
    is updated for the starting area with BT being the starting point. Then
    for the love of pete have them met a bronze dragonflight who sends them
    back in time to Wrath Northrend to explain the time warp.
    Last edited by Rockwood; 2013-01-12 at 10:57 AM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Aveyai View Post
    I enjoy WoW's lore but I am not extremely knowledgeable about all of it. It seems to be popular speculation that alliance may be getting High Elves as the next race and the next expansion may be the return of the burning legion. If it is BL, then a demon hunter class is pretty probable. My question is, if all of what I said came true, how against the lore would it be to have a High Elf demon hunter?
    Demon hunter will be 4th spec of monks.

  18. #38
    The Lightbringer prwraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockwood View Post
    Personally I think if they do Demon hunter as a class they need to make it another Hero class.

    starting lvl 65 to 68 when leave the starting zone: No one wants to do BC questing anymore.

    Races: Every race but Tauren, Draenei, and Pandas

    They would probably wear agi leather like druids, rogues, and monks but
    personally I would love for them go intel cloth or agi mail but thats just me.

    They would have 1 tanking spec and 2 DPS specs.

    All demon hunter characters come with a mandatory blindfold that can be
    color changed at the barber.

    I think it would be cool to have an Instanced shadowmoon valley that
    is updated for the starting area with BT being the starting point. Then
    for the love of pete have them met a bronze dragonflight who sends them
    back in time to Wrath Northrend to explain the time warp.
    You know i agree with the majority of your post. But I find it odd that'd a DH would skip the part of the leveling process the involves mainly ya know...demons :P
    Hate people who read https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ and immediately think they're debate kings.

  19. #39
    it looks like no one here played Burning Crusade.

    Illidan trained five Blood elven demon hunters. Three died in training, Leotheras the blind gone mad. Only one survived http://www.wowpedia.org/Varedis

  20. #40
    The Lightbringer prwraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazarusLong View Post
    it looks like no one here played Burning Crusade.

    Illidan trained five Blood elven demon hunters. Three died in training, Leotheras the blind gone mad. Only one survived http://www.wowpedia.org/Varedis
    According to your same source though That's just a fraction of the demon hunter populace, albeit the most famous.

    http://www.wowpedia.org/Demon_Hunter

    It clearly states "Illidan was the most famous of the order". Which directly implies that he is neither the only one, nor the original, nor the teacher of new inductees.
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