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  1. #21
    Moderator llDemonll's Avatar
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    if you're rendering / encoding it makes a fairly sizeable difference

    "I'm glad you play better than you read/post on forums." -Ninety
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  2. #22
    If you talk 10-15% difference on a one minute task then no, it isn't worth it. But everyone who knows anything about rendering knows that it's not a one minute job. 10-15% can save you hours a week, easily. I would never recommend an i5 if you do alot of rendering or even more than 4-5 times a week. And I would recommend you to get a CUDA heavy gpu as well, like a GTX670 or something as it makes your rendering days alot more comfortable as well.

    My best setup for you, and I do render, would be this:

    - i7 3770K
    - GTX670/GTX580/GTX680 based on what you can afford.
    - 16GB Overclocked through the roof CL9 RAM (2133 or higher) - find the timings before ordering the RAM, you don't want anything higher than CL9. I recommend 16GB due to the fact that rendering can be quite memory intensive and if you want to be doing other stuff as well, don't save money on the RAM.

  3. #23
    Because of the budget of 700-1000 euro, might it not be better to look also at some AMD alternatives due to the rendering?

  4. #24
    Immortal Notarget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tedj View Post
    @Notarget:

    -Why Corsair and not Kingston for the RAM?
    -Any reason to choose LG Drive over Asus?
    -Also for the cooler, I'm definitly going with liquid one. Your best choice is the H55? But would you recomend me the liquid cooler if I have the money for it?
    -Damn if theres one thing I don't know anything about, is monitors. I have no idea what IPS and Non-IPS means nor which specs to search in a monitor. I'll go research that quickly.

    Thanks for the HDD and all the rest also
    The Corsair RAM was just the best/cheapest I could find using Amazon/Novatech and I have good experiences with Corsair products.

    The LG DVD drive was the cheapest.

    I personally prefer air coolers because generally you can get better/quieter performance for less/similar price. I'm just saying if you do decide for that route I'd go H55 < H80i but it starts to get expensive.

    Perhaps a better idea is to just use stock cooling for now, upgrade to a i7-3770k especially since you'll be rendering. If you decide to stick with the i5-3570k then you should easily be able to fit in a better GPU etc. (read below)

    I would recommend stick with the G45 motherboard, it has better sound, VRM and SLI support if you ever want to add a second GPU.

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

    CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor (£247.56 @ Amazon UK)
    Motherboard: MSI Z77A-G45 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard (£77.72 @ Amazon UK)
    Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£59.98 @ Amazon UK)
    Storage: Crucial M4 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (£78.96 @ Amazon UK)
    Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£57.96 @ Amazon UK)
    Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card (£174.99 @ Amazon UK)
    Case: Corsair 300R ATX Mid Tower Case (£59.99 @ Amazon UK)
    Power Supply: SeaSonic 520W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply (£67.94 @ Amazon UK)
    Optical Drive: LG GH24NS90 DVD/CD Writer (£13.98 @ Novatech)
    Total: £839.08
    (Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
    (Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-12 15:19 GMT+0000)

    Add £30 for the CM Hyper 212 EVO cooler if you want something cheap that will work just fine. perhaps the changes might leave room for a better GPU like this:

    Asus GeForce GTX660 TI

    Total would end like ~£880-910
    Last edited by Notarget; 2013-01-12 at 03:19 PM.
    CPU: Intel i5-3570k (4.5GHz) MB: ASUS Z77 Sabertooth (uefi 2003)
    GPU: Asus 280X TOP (1080MHz/1700MHz) RAM: Corsair LP/LV white 8GB 1600MHz
    SSD: Samsung 840Pro 256GB + Crucial m4 128GB (040H) PSU: Seasonic 620M CASE: Corsair 500R (White/Black) Monitor: LG 237L-BN IPS
    Current build! ||Old Build || Bitdefender Total Security 2014 || AV-TEST Jan/Feb 2013

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Notarget View Post

    I would recommend stick with the G43 motherboard, it has better sound, VRM and SLI support if you ever want to add a second GPU.
    It only supports crossfire not SLI

    http://www.msi.com/product/mb/Z77A-G43.html

    You can probably run SLI, but you need to work around it.

    And if you are opting for a 3570k, wouldnt a 8350 be better for rendering?

  6. #26
    Immortal Notarget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeara View Post
    It only supports crossfire not SLI

    http://www.msi.com/product/mb/Z77A-G43.html

    You can probably run SLI, but you need to work around it.

    And if you are opting for a 3570k, wouldnt a 8350 be better for rendering?
    Yeah I edited my post/build for the G45, all those similar numbers fixed now though. I'd opt for the i7 CPU.
    CPU: Intel i5-3570k (4.5GHz) MB: ASUS Z77 Sabertooth (uefi 2003)
    GPU: Asus 280X TOP (1080MHz/1700MHz) RAM: Corsair LP/LV white 8GB 1600MHz
    SSD: Samsung 840Pro 256GB + Crucial m4 128GB (040H) PSU: Seasonic 620M CASE: Corsair 500R (White/Black) Monitor: LG 237L-BN IPS
    Current build! ||Old Build || Bitdefender Total Security 2014 || AV-TEST Jan/Feb 2013

  7. #27
    @chazus:
    - Thanks for SSD info, and if it really goes like that I think I will go with the M4.
    - Still unsure about which keyboard I want, I guess it will be up to me.

    @n0cturnal:
    - Thanks for that link. I am serious about graphic work but I don't know if for now, since I want double 24'', it's worth to get those 300-400€ monitors.

    @llDemonll and Lemmiwink:
    - I am doing lots of rendering. So I'm guessing that CPU is worth buying no? Rendering is most likely going to be my future job and even if I can't pay up the CPU with it now, I need to pratice a lot. The only problem is that the diference between the i7 and i5 is soo huge in terms of prices.

    @Lemmiwink:
    - What you mean with find the timings before ordering the RAM?

    @Notarget:
    - So are you saying that Fans are actually quieter then the liquid system? I'm just after the Liquid because I thought it was THE most quiet system and I hate working with noise behind, it really distracts me.
    - The problem is that the price difference between the i7 and i5 is like 200$ and or more. But I may be going after it!

    @All:
    - Still rather unsure about the CPU, whether to go i7 or i5 due to the price diference but I'm leaning to i7.
    - Also unsure about the GPU but raising both CPU and GPU is boosting the price like shit so I don't know which one to go after.
    - Lemmewink got me thinking about RAM now, whether to 1600 or 2133.
    - Is it worth to go for the G45 MoBo rather then the G41 I previously had?


    Again thanks everyone for the help so far!
    World PvP and how it stands/standed.
    World PvP isn't meant to be balanced, fair nor honorable. It's meant to be brutal, sneaky and it's the survival of the fittest. It's a fight where everything goes and you use anything you can to survive and win. It's War.. a World of Warcraft where only the best survive!

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Tedj View Post

    @All:
    - Still rather unsure about the CPU, whether to go i7 or i5 due to the price diference but I'm leaning to i7.
    - Also unsure about the GPU but raising both CPU and GPU is boosting the price like shit so I don't know which one to go after.

    Again thanks everyone for the help so far!
    From my understanding (I dont have that much knowledge, i just read some reviews), the i7 is best for rendering etc. So if you got the money for it, thats the best choice.
    However, if money is the problem the AMD 8350 seems to be a good option, it should be better than the i5 in multi core work and it still produces decent results in gaming.

    Again I just read some reviews. But the from what ive read id put them in this order for rendering i7 > AMD 8350 > i5. Also depending on the programs a 8350 with a better gpu might not be all that bad.

  9. #29
    @Zeara:
    How about for gaming?
    World PvP and how it stands/standed.
    World PvP isn't meant to be balanced, fair nor honorable. It's meant to be brutal, sneaky and it's the survival of the fittest. It's a fight where everything goes and you use anything you can to survive and win. It's War.. a World of Warcraft where only the best survive!

  10. #30
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    - Still rather unsure about the CPU, whether to go i7 or i5 due to the price diference but I'm leaning to i7.
    If you can afford it, swing it.
    - Also unsure about the GPU but raising both CPU and GPU is boosting the price like shit so I don't know which one to go after.
    Thats why I originally suggested the 3570K, since I felt that with the budget, it would be hard to get an i7, AND something like a 670 GPU. If you can get the i7 and 660 ti, that might be the best mix
    - Lemmewink got me thinking about RAM now, whether to 1600 or 2133.
    Timings refer to CAS Latency. Compare This and This. The Patrio (First) has better timings. However, and this is my experience, poking and prodding at CAS latency and overclocking RAM, really produces little to no real world benefit. Most of the perks I've seen are benchmark-peen waving. AMD CPU's benefit from faster RAM, usually. I don't believe 2133 would be of any help over 1600 for the cost, nor would tighter CAS timings. Anyone is welcome to correct me with proof otherwise, though.
    - Is it worth to go for the G45 MoBo rather then the G41 I previously had?
    If you think you'll get a second video card at some point, the board isn't that much extra. The G41 and 43 use Crossfire (For ATI Radeon cards), the G45 uses SLI (For nVidia cards). I have been given the impression that nVidia CUDA cores eat up rendering better than ATI Stream Processors.
    the AMD 8350 seems to be a good option, it should be better than the i5 in multi core work and it still produces decent results in gaming.
    Every benchmark, test, and article written I've seen has shown AMD CPU's to be sub-par, both for gaming, rendering, and anything... anything. It's unfortunate, but true. The 8350 is currently on par with the older i7s, and newer i3s. Both the newer i5 and i7 soundly stomp it in every aspect. AMD, as far as I can tell, should not be considered unless you were building a budget system in the $500 range.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Tedj View Post
    @Zeara:
    How about for gaming?
    Depends how the game is limited, for WoW (cpu bound) the i5/i7 will be quite a bit better i think. While for games that relay more on the gpu, it wont matter that much.

    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    Every benchmark, test, and article written I've seen has shown AMD CPU's to be sub-par, both for gaming, rendering, and anything... anything. It's unfortunate, but true. The 8350 is currently on par with the older i7s, and newer i3s. Both the newer i5 and i7 soundly stomp it in every aspect. AMD, as far as I can tell, should not be considered unless you were building a budget system in the $500 range.
    Not every review is the same of course, and this was just the first google hit i found. The i7 is to much, but it is beating the i5 tho

    http://techreport.com/review/23750/a...or-reviewed/12

    But, the i7 is the best choice.

  12. #32
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Not every review is the same of course, and this was just the first google hit i found. The i7 is to much, but it is beating the i5 tho
    http://techreport.com/review/23750/a...or-reviewed/12
    But, the i7 is the best choice.
    That's the first I've heard of it. However... That's also at stock speeds. I'm quite positive that even overclocking marginally to 3.8ghz changes that song drastically (It would be almost negligent not to, with a 3570K or 3770K, with a 3rd party cooler. I don't simply because I still have the retail cooler). I still would never recommend an AMD CPU currently, in their current state, to anyone spending more than $500-$600 on a system.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    That's the first I've heard of it. However... That's also at stock speeds. I'm quite positive that even overclocking marginally to 3.8ghz changes that song drastically (It would be almost negligent not to, with a 3570K or 3770K, with a 3rd party cooler. I don't simply because I still have the retail cooler). I still would never recommend an AMD CPU currently, in their current state, to anyone spending more than $500-$600 on a system.
    OCing is a moot point. You can OC both cpus And i think the 8350 can reach 4.8 on air.

  14. #34
    Thats why I originally suggested the 3570K, since I felt that with the budget, it would be hard to get an i7, AND something like a 670 GPU. If you can get the i7 and 660 ti, that might be the best mix
    - Which GeForce GTX 650 Ti are you talking about?
    I would like the i7 but I believe it's way out of budget since I still need some money to get the two 24''s.

    - I'm convinced in the RAM though.

    If you think you'll get a second video card at some point, the board isn't that much extra. The G41 and 43 use Crossfire (For ATI Radeon cards), the G45 uses SLI (For nVidia cards). I have been given the impression that nVidia CUDA cores eat up rendering better than ATI Stream Processors.
    So the G45 uses SLI which is better at rendering?
    World PvP and how it stands/standed.
    World PvP isn't meant to be balanced, fair nor honorable. It's meant to be brutal, sneaky and it's the survival of the fittest. It's a fight where everything goes and you use anything you can to survive and win. It's War.. a World of Warcraft where only the best survive!

  15. #35
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Which GeForce GTX 650 Ti are you talking about?
    660ti
    Basically, 660, 660ti, 670

    I would like the i7 but I believe it's way out of budget since I still need some money to get the two 24''s.
    To be clear, it seems that the i7 may be a better choice? But don't misunderstand, the i5 3570K is still a beast of a processor. You will not be disappointed with it.
    So the G45 uses SLI which is better at rendering?
    Clarification. The G45 -supports- SLI, SLI meaning two video cards. This implies that whatever card you get, you can in theory, get a second one of those later down the road. The G45 vs G41 or G43 provide no real benefit up front with just one video card. It's sort of the longer term investment.

  16. #36
    @chazus:
    -Yea but I can find several 660ti's as shown here. Which one to choose? What's the differences? I would like to also understand what I'm buying and what are the differences as you've most likely undestood now :P

    -Well then it's settled, due to money right now, I'm going for the i5-3570k and getting I'm getting a better GPU.

    -Ahh! So I think I'm going for the G45 as I can with that one, possibly get a second GPU in next christmas or something.
    World PvP and how it stands/standed.
    World PvP isn't meant to be balanced, fair nor honorable. It's meant to be brutal, sneaky and it's the survival of the fittest. It's a fight where everything goes and you use anything you can to survive and win. It's War.. a World of Warcraft where only the best survive!

  17. #37
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tedj View Post
    @chazus:
    -Yea but I can find several 660ti's as shown here. Which one to choose? What's the differences? I would like to also understand what I'm buying and what are the differences as you've most likely undestood now :P
    There isn't a big difference between them, to be honest, when considering the same card. However I'd probably choose this one because having 2-3 fans is better, and it's overclocked a little for almost the same price as cheaper ones.

  18. #38
    Ah I see, well then I think I am going to go for the i5 3570k with that GPU, or is that one only good with the i7?

    Also I now have to choose a liquid system - I am sure I want one now. Any thoughts on the best?

    Thanks again for all the help so much!
    World PvP and how it stands/standed.
    World PvP isn't meant to be balanced, fair nor honorable. It's meant to be brutal, sneaky and it's the survival of the fittest. It's a fight where everything goes and you use anything you can to survive and win. It's War.. a World of Warcraft where only the best survive!

  19. #39
    Moderator llDemonll's Avatar
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    why do you need a liquid system?

    it also seems that rendering is your main focus, true or not? if so, the i7 and 660ti is still going to help you more than the i5 and 670

    "I'm glad you play better than you read/post on forums." -Ninety
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  20. #40
    @llDemonll:

    I'm not going to go with the 670 anymore, I'm choosing the 660 ti.
    But I don't have enough budget for the i7. I mean I do but to do it I would have to give up on the double 24'' screens.
    Would the i5 to i7 improvement worth losing a 24'' screen? Because the difference is nearly 200€ from the i5 to the i7.
    And yes my main goal is rendering/designing but I will also want to play as I tend to PvP quite a lot.
    However, I am still in the last year of college and one of two things can happen after: I start working, or I go for a PhD. Either way don't you think I can hold very well with the i5 for 2 years?
    World PvP and how it stands/standed.
    World PvP isn't meant to be balanced, fair nor honorable. It's meant to be brutal, sneaky and it's the survival of the fittest. It's a fight where everything goes and you use anything you can to survive and win. It's War.. a World of Warcraft where only the best survive!

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