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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    The "has nothing to do with it" shows really "I have no clue" how playing time/end game challenge is related to bored players that get angry because not everyone plays a single video game for 10 hours per day.

    In other words: Blizzard can no longer make games that can fulfill the wet dreams of 1% 'no lifers".

    Diablo 3 is a quite good and clever video game. It will not cure cancer or take you back to your dreams of an ex 14 year old.

    As such: take it or leave it.
    Tbh i am with Alyssa. His/her points are actually good while i don't play the same way he does.

    Actually "best" players are just the ones who very likely had a lot of luck at the beginning and/or exploited AH when there was the windows clock bug. Hence a lo of gold for best gear served and just nuked the shit ou of everything.

    Of course for them 1.0.7 means nothing - they have already devoured the game to the core. But it's not a problem.

    And while i still think that an XP boost for higher MPs will only make the game better, his idea of a two sided game sounds good and on place.

    Unfortunately i have onli 83k dps on my DH - but i farmed everything and even if i don't oneshot ubers, i'm still fine. And i play like 2 hour sessions not every day.

    There's a big difference between "having a lot of free time" and "being effective" LvL 31 atm and going.

  2. #62
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Your bias towards others that have more time to spend makes you blind to their issues and possible solutions with in the game design, ironic as your egoistical position demanding the game be designed around the lowest common denominator is as bad as your implied accusations towards the "1% no lifers".
    Alyssa why bother replying to him? Like the guys going to defend the game like there's nothing wrong with it hes been doing it for the past thread I mean really It's pointless; His reply is literally the same thing again and again and again and again.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    I didn't say that you doing it would be efficient with your gear level (that I have no idea about), I just identified the problem, by not using any MP you don't take advantage of the extra item mechanic nor do you get the fairly generous MF/GF boost something that will affect your gold picked up if nothing else.

    I'm quite puzzled how you can't manage anything above MP0, gear last I played cost nothing, I geared my barb with bits I had laying around and a couple of million on AH and could do MP3 with little issues.
    Probably because monks do so little dmg it's just not worth the time.

  4. #64
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diocassius View Post
    Probably because monks do so little dmg it's just not worth the time.
    They're damage is actually fine just It's ridiculously expensive all though the expensive part is actually halved due to them only taking ONE resist rather then AR

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by -Apathy- View Post
    Alyssa why bother replying to him? Like the guys going to defend the game like there's nothing wrong with it hes been doing it for the past thread I mean really It's pointless; His reply is literally the same thing again and again and again and again.
    Boredom, he also deviated from the 10 point presentation why there isn't anything wrong with the game the second time around.
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  6. #66
    This patch just doesnt cut it. Problems #1, #2, #3, #4, and #5 with d3 is the antisocial nature of the game. Without a robust way for players to build a community in-game, nothing else matters.

    global chat should always be on by default, and people should be forced to opt out. it needs player controlled chatrooms. It needs strong clan support. players should be able to make games and name them so others can pick from a list.

    Blizzard has not listened to the players here at all. They only make game changes. Where are the social improvements?
    Last edited by Grummgug; 2013-01-14 at 07:46 PM.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    Where are the social improvements?
    Ask the SC2 team that set the precedent for this.
    Win and live. Lose and die.
    Rule of life. No change rule.
    Running worse than losing.
    Random casual stuff now


  8. #68
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    I know I'm in the forum minority, but I think I must represent their target player for this game because I think the changes are solid. I'm not someone crying over PvP (I know your wants are valid PvP people) and I'm not someone that has played this game nonstop since release while complaining about it every step of the way.

    Each time they have presented a system that 'extends' or 'improves' the content, I have come back and played a little. The MP patch saw me play a great deal of time, but I I don't even think I made paragon 20 yet. For me, I'm only looking at any way they can make my time more rewarding. I don't need things given to me, but I want my time to be more valuable than it has been in the game.

    These changes do exactly that for me. I might be able to play my monk with something other than overawe, which is boring, and I will be gaining paragon quicker. This plus the QoL features with rezzes and reflect, molten, plagued sound like I will dump a little more time in there.

    Whether you think these things should have been like this on launch, or that this is a conspiracy theory to extend our interest until an expansion can release, it doesn't matter. You could have had the game at launch that we paid millions for and let that be that. Luckily we are better than their in house guinea pigs and we've seen lots of great changes.

    I have an odd feeling that this game will meet 99% of people's desires the month before the expansion comes out. And then we're all going to buy it again anyways.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    I have an odd feeling that this game will meet 99% of people's desires the month before the expansion comes out. And then we're all going to buy it again anyways.

    Speak for yourself. Alot will have to change before I and many of my friends make that purchase.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    Speak for yourself. Alot will have to change before I and many of my friends make that purchase.
    Like MAKING DECENT ITEMS DROP WHEN YOU FARM FOR HOURS AND HOURS /breaks a table -.-

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    Speak for yourself. Alot will have to change before I and many of my friends make that purchase.
    I'm sorry, I didn't realize giving a conspiracy theory projection wasn't speaking for myself. I thought it was pretty clear when I said "I have an odd feeling...", implying that it was my opinion.

    To clarify, that was my opinion, expressed as a joking tin foil hat jab at the potential that they have kept the game broken so they can fix it in order to keep us chained along just in time to buy the xpac.

    Not really sure what the point of your post was.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 02:04 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by -Apathy- View Post
    Like MAKING DECENT ITEMS DROP WHEN YOU FARM FOR HOURS AND HOURS /breaks a table -.-
    I've equipped exactly one legendary that I've found. I only used it b/c it worked with the rest of my purchased gear and was only worth like 200k on the AH anyways. Unfoprtunately for you, I know personally and I'm sure Blizzard has tons of data, that plenty of gear has dropped for people.

    My friend who plays a monk and can pretty quickly/reliably farm MP8 now...which is insane, b/c he used to refuse to go past 2 for efficiency...gets plenty of things all the time. It's just nothing good for him since his gear is so much better.
    Last edited by Kelimbror; 2013-01-14 at 07:04 PM.

  12. #72
    I just wish you could do acts back to back without having to exit to the menu.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    My friend who plays a monk and can pretty quickly/reliably farm MP8 now...which is insane, b/c he used to refuse to go past 2 for efficiency...gets plenty of things all the time. It's just nothing good for him since his gear is so much better.
    Did he use the AH? If he did then any complaint is invalid as he bypassed he's own drops hence you have to take that in to account. Him being able to farm MP 8 means he's at the top end of the gear perfection game and as such would only really benefit from a system similar to the once I described above, any changes to shrink the end game just affects him in a negative light.
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  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by -Apathy- View Post
    Like MAKING DECENT ITEMS DROP WHEN YOU FARM FOR HOURS AND HOURS /breaks a table -.-
    They def broke something when they restarted the servers last wednesday. I went from 46-51 on the barb and got two legendarys, i run with over 400 mf including the mp stacks.

    "I just wish you could do acts back to back without having to exit to the menu. "

    They said nv stacks will persist through acts in the next patch, im not sure if that means we can waypoint to a3 or we just keep the nv stack timer while in the menus (like we now can in multiplayer).

    You should be fine with your stats pend, i wouldnt expect probs until mp4. Id have to see you play to make my critique.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Did he use the AH? If he did then any complaint is invalid as he bypassed he's own drops hence you have to take that in to account. Him being able to farm MP 8 means he's at the top end of the gear perfection game and as such would only really benefit from a system similar to the once I described above, any changes to shrink the end game just affects him in a negative light.
    Would he have gotten up to farming MP8 without the AH? Hell no. But has he gotten 'no drops' as people like to claim (and I experience first hand), no...he's gotten tons. He regularly sells items for millions. His trash that he can't even be bothered to pick up seems to always increase my dmg by thousands.

    Obviously if they made it easier to get drops then it would 'shrink the endgame', but this isn't a game where a goal post keeps getting set farther and farther back. It's about honing perfection. The only thing he would actually suffer for as time goes on, like many farmers, is that lower stat rolled gear becomes worthless as time goes on. Whether it's linear or exponential, who knows?

    For the people fortunate enough to have gear, it only causes them to make less money in theory. But if drops are increased across the board, they should theroetically be able to keep selling the same amount of items for roughly the same values. Or possibly as time goes on, when a certain level of items becomes completely worthless, higher items can be bumped in price.

    Either way you are going to reach a stagnant point in playing if you put enough time into it. That's kinda the whole point of the game design. Otherwise they'd be constantly introducing harder content and higher level loot. As great as that would be for replayability...we would suddenly find ourselves playing the World of Diablocraft.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Would he have gotten up to farming MP8 without the AH? Hell no. But has he gotten 'no drops' as people like to claim (and I experience first hand), no...he's gotten tons. He regularly sells items for millions. His trash that he can't even be bothered to pick up seems to always increase my dmg by thousands.
    Which is why I'm saying the use of AH has to be taken in to account, he effectively shortened he's own end game and selling items to buy others are getting "drops" in a backwards way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Obviously if they made it easier to get drops then it would 'shrink the endgame', but this isn't a game where a goal post keeps getting set farther and farther back. It's about honing perfection. The only thing he would actually suffer for as time goes on, like many farmers, is that lower stat rolled gear becomes worthless as time goes on. Whether it's linear or exponential, who knows?
    But the goal post is moved with every patch, what originally was good gear is now vendor trash, even the top end goal post is moved every other patch, legendary facelift, hellfire ring, affix changes to jewelry and now BoA patterns, the perfection game has been undermined by Blizzard on so many occasions now that I lost all faith in that part of the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    For the people fortunate enough to have gear, it only causes them to make less money in theory. But if drops are increased across the board, they should theroetically be able to keep selling the same amount of items for roughly the same values. Or possibly as time goes on, when a certain level of items becomes completely worthless, higher items can be bumped in price.
    This is where a horizontal progression system helps create longevity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Either way you are going to reach a stagnant point in playing if you put enough time into it. That's kinda the whole point of the game design. Otherwise they'd be constantly introducing harder content and higher level loot. As great as that would be for replayability...we would suddenly find ourselves playing the World of Diablocraft.
    But this is what they are doing, moving the goal post ever so much with every patch, either by adding new items or by upping drop rates to the point where you old gear is no longer in the top 10% but instead the bottom 25%.


    The game should have had a more well thought out loot systems to start with where end game easy to acquire gear would be X, the top end of the gear perfection curve would be Z and in the middle you would have Y, at the Y level of gear they should have horizontal developed content where Y is the entry requirement (negated by skill but you get the point) like dungeons and ubers. The horizontal content should reward patterns and materials that can be used to improve your gear through sockets, new gems and similar effects, the further you progress through the horizontal content the higher rewards you get. This allows for increasingly harder content and means to make gear you find good enough better while you try to find better items to again improve.

    This allows the player with less time to get basic end game gear and work towards Y where they can help them selfs climb towards their goal, it also provides the more committed player a challenge for higher rewards working towards the same far reached goal as the less dedicated player.

    In the end it's an overall design philosophy issue mostly influenced by the WoW mindset of the never ending ladder to climb.
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  17. #77
    All I can say is anyone who find the hole gear-system in Diablo3 fine didn't play Diablo2.

    In Diablo2 you could do even some of the hardest places inn MF gear (I managed to do baal run inn fully MF gear on a sorc plenty of times etc), witch also meant you didn't relay on gear that much, but when you did get some upgrade it could be feelt pretty good. Diablo3 is now all about stacking crit damage...yay.

    Inn Diablo2 I would focus on +skiller items ofcourse, but then I would also look into life/mana leech, that stun recovery states and other similar fun stats. Diablo2 had alot of ways to gear, one good example off that is doing a budget smiter for ubber bosses. Yes you are immortal inn Diablo2 once you had the best rune words, gear, inventory etc - But that is the point off ARPG's; To get an insane build/character.

    And honestly, even with the best gear you can die somewhat inn Diablo2, cant just close you're eyes and click away. Basicly stats/gear system was great inn Diablo2. I will add that some runewords were abit to good trough.
    One reason for WoW decline I often hear is that its an old game and naturally people get bored with it. But TV is much older and people still watch that. Surely if a thing you once enjoyed keept staying fun, you would still use it?

  18. #78
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    But the goal post is moved with every patch, what originally was good gear is now vendor trash, even the top end goal post is moved every other patch, legendary facelift, hellfire ring, affix changes to jewelry and now BoA patterns, the perfection game has been undermined by Blizzard on so many occasions now that I lost all faith in that part of the game.
    *snip*
    In the end it's an overall design philosophy issue mostly influenced by the WoW mindset of the never ending ladder to climb.
    Shortening the field isn't moving the goal posts. All they are doing is making the field shorter. Changing what gear is where in desirability has nothing to do with your objectives. These were the goals of the game:
    1) Beat inferno
    2) Get the best gear possible
    some patches happened
    3) Get paragon 100
    4) Craft hellfire ring(s)
    5) See how high you can farm MP
    6) Repeat on another toon, that you probably already have gear for to shorten the process.

    I will agree that adding the MP moved the goalposts a bit, but your problem seems to always be tied to the gear and 'devaluing' what you've already worked for. If they had left the game as is, natural progression would have devalued gear over time. They've only sped up the process.

    Moving the goal posts would be them giving you something higher to attain and better loot in the process. They've kinda done the first one, arguably haven't done the second one at all. Until they add another tier of gear only obtainable in MP10 or something, which has better stats on it than the other inferno gear, the goal hasn't changed.

    I can agree that the WoW mentality is what leads them to shorten the field, ie make it easier for everyone to obtain better gear, but almost everyone here was complaining that was what they wanted. All the lamenting over 'gear never dropping' was what made them up the rates, add MP, tweak affixes, etc.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Moving the goal posts would be them giving you something higher to attain and better loot in the process. They've kinda done the first one, arguably haven't done the second one at all. Until they add another tier of gear only obtainable in MP10 or something, which has better stats on it than the other inferno gear, the goal hasn't changed.
    But it has, jewelery got level 63 affixes, new legendary items and from the look of it the new BoA items will do it once again. Devaluing gear also moves the goal post, not literally but indirect as the gear that was considered top end shrunk with each devaluation, making top end gear be mid level gear is moving the goal post of what's achievable, the reason the new legendary items became so much better than rares as they had shorter affix gaps than rares.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    I can agree that the WoW mentality is what leads them to shorten the field, ie make it easier for everyone to obtain better gear, but almost everyone here was complaining that was what they wanted. All the lamenting over 'gear never dropping' was what made them up the rates, add MP, tweak affixes, etc.
    And it didn't solve anything, people complained that they didn't get any drops, then they complained that although they did get drops they where all shit and not worth anything, and once again they complained that the new legendary items they got plenty of was worth nothing. The problem was never the amounts of drops, mostly it was affix range issues and more so the lack of additional sub goals as explained in my Y segment above, if the goal is only gear perfection you will inevitably run in to the "no drops" issue, at least within the current system.
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  20. #80
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    if the goal is only gear perfection you will inevitably run in to the "no drops" issue, at least within the current system.
    This is the defining factor of ARPG. Unless they are ever increasing the difficulty and level of the drops, ala MMO gear treadmills, the game is what it is. I don't understand what you want. You don't want it to stay the same, but you don't want them introducing a few new items or elements to gameplay.

    I'd hardly call bringing jewelry in line with every other piece of gear in the game anything drastic. Likewise, the rings aren't any better than most other rings, just with the added benefit of the +exp. Additionally, these new craftable items will have higher primary stats at the expense of what...possibly all the other stats, on top of set bonuses that you lose, money it takes to craft, etc. In all essence, the crafting system in D3 is a gambling mechanic that is used in other ARPGs.

    I don't see any of these changes drastically shifting the power of players or their gear like you seem to fear it will. I agree that several times in the past they clearly did that, with the IAS nerf and whatever else, but this is just layering content. It's dropping more potential ways to get across the field, but the end is still the same.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 04:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    This is the defining factor of ARPG. Unless they are ever increasing the difficulty and level of the drops, ala MMO gear treadmills, the game is what it is. I don't understand what you want. You don't want it to stay the same, but you don't want them introducing a few new items or elements to gameplay.

    I'd hardly call bringing jewelry in line with every other piece of gear in the game anything drastic. Likewise, the rings aren't any better than most other rings, just with the added benefit of the +exp. Additionally, these new craftable items will have higher primary stats at the expense of what...possibly all the other stats, on top of set bonuses that you lose, money it takes to craft, etc. In all essence, the crafting system in D3 is a gambling mechanic that is used in other ARPGs.

    I don't see any of these changes drastically shifting the power of players or their gear like you seem to fear it will. I agree that several times in the past they clearly did that, with the IAS nerf and whatever else, but this is just layering content. It's dropping more potential ways to get across the field, but the end is still the same.
    Edit:

    If it was a single player game and they added better loot, would people be complaining that it ruined the gear they had worked so hard on? No. So really your beef is with the entire AH system. It was their decision to have one, so take that for what it may, but you can't judge the actual gameplay on an economic experience. It would be much better off if they increased the drop rates, narrowed the affixes, and got rid of the AH. If they did the first two, which everyone always complains about...then we have people with your opinion who thinks that would make 90% of the gear in the game useless. Other than actually changing how gear you have on works mechanically, like IAS, they haven't changed the value of shit.

    What you have you earned, it got you where you are. What you've sold, you've collected money for already. Going forward everyone is affected equally so it should be a non issue.

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