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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    1. You say reduced replay-ability, I say more time spent doing what I want. Forced replay-ability because of bad game design is not fun.
    2. I wouldn't mind if NV didn't disappear on spec change.
    3. Who are you competing with? Do they know you are competing with them? How do you know what someone else has? If you are a competitive person how is getting gear faster bad?
    4. I agree you don't have to do bosses if you don't want to. But it is still an option if you would like to. In d2 it wasn't an option. This isn't maybe the best way to go but it's better than D2.
    5. diablo has always been about the gear?
    6. Still remains, I now have another option for finding more than stacking gear alone.
    1. No one forced you to make multiple characters to play different specs but you had the option, due to how NV works and how unbalanced the abilities are you don't have the option anymore, at best you will find 3 valid concepts to play for a class and the benefit of being able to switch between them isn't all that great due to NV. Again better solved through expensive or time limited respecs leaving the choices talent trees allowed for (even if it's only an illusion of choice).
    2. At this point I'm fairly sure the majority agrees as it really don't serve any purpose.
    3. Lets say you play with a few friends every now and then, if you out of principle don't use the AH while they do, how long do you think it would take before you are a burden to the group? That's just one example.
    4. It really isn't an option, try to kill bosses without 5x NV and see what they drop, on top of this the linearity of the game forces you to play through the trash content to reach multiple bosses in one session. Blizzard was and is so focused on their version of what should be fun for the player that they eliminate the option to play the way the player might find fun. D3 elite packs and bosses is one example, Oculus in WoW is another of the same mindset where they increased the rewards to the point where the player had no choice but feel it was worth doing it.
    5. Sure it has, MP doesn't provide a challenge though, it's only a question about pure stats and Inferno without MP at this point is a joke.
    6. I don't follow, by pushing the player along with the insane XP boosts they effectively remove the usefulness of MF and GF gear, thus making more loot useless, and not only that they negate the re-playability through Paragon as well.
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  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    1. No one forced you to make multiple characters to play different specs but you had the option, due to how NV works and how unbalanced the abilities are you don't have the option anymore, at best you will find 3 valid concepts to play for a class and the benefit of being able to switch between them isn't all that great due to NV. Again better solved through expensive or time limited respecs leaving the choices talent trees allowed for (even if it's only an illusion of choice).
    2. At this point I'm fairly sure the majority agrees as it really don't serve any purpose.
    3. Lets say you play with a few friends every now and then, if you out of principle don't use the AH while they do, how long do you think it would take before you are a burden to the group? That's just one example.
    4. It really isn't an option, try to kill bosses without 5x NV and see what they drop, on top of this the linearity of the game forces you to play through the trash content to reach multiple bosses in one session. Blizzard was and is so focused on their version of what should be fun for the player that they eliminate the option to play the way the player might find fun. D3 elite packs and bosses is one example, Oculus in WoW is another of the same mindset where they increased the rewards to the point where the player had no choice but feel it was worth doing it.
    5. Sure it has, MP doesn't provide a challenge though, it's only a question about pure stats and Inferno without MP at this point is a joke.
    6. I don't follow, by pushing the player along with the insane XP boosts they effectively remove the usefulness of MF and GF gear, thus making more loot useless, and not only that they negate the re-playability through Paragon as well.
    1. Not saying anyone else forced me too. I'm saying if I wanted to play another spec in D2 I HAD to level another char. That wasn't fun for me. It ended up with taking my brother for 2-3 hours and getting rushed and leech baal runs.
    3. I currently play with friends that vastly outgear me. He doesn't consider me a burden. Neither would I ever think playing with a friend is a burden. Though I can see what you are saying for certain groups of friends. But I think if they are that competitive they would all agree to playing the same way.
    4. I see what you are saying. No you don't have the option to do bosses alone. This should be fixed.
    5. Does it increase mob health and damage? Does this not make the fights harder. I call bullshit if you say it doesn't make it any harder at all. It might not give you the challenge you want but that is a different story.
    6. What I was trying to say is in D2 I needed to stack mf gear to gear better drops. I had no choice. In D3 I don't need to with NV and paragon, but if I did want to I wouldn't have to worry about NV as much not getting a high paragon level.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    5. Does it increase mob health and damage? Does this not make the fights harder. I call bullshit if you say it doesn't make it any harder at all. It might not give you the challenge you want but that is a different story.
    It makes it harder but not more challenging, it simply causes a demand for more stats to perform the same, adding difficulty and as such a challenge can only be done through added mechanics or different foes, there is a difference between difficulty and just being artificially made harder through stats requirement.

    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    6. What I was trying to say is in D2 I needed to stack mf gear to gear better drops. I had no choice. In D3 I don't need to with NV and paragon, but if I did want to I wouldn't have to worry about NV as much not getting a high paragon level.
    I'd claim you have no choice to ignore NV in D3 so it's just same same but different, and with the massive increase in XP gains in 1.07 they effectively could just as well remove MF/GF on gear, Paragon system and give everyone a base MF/GF of 375.
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  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    It makes it harder but not more challenging, it simply causes a demand for more stats to perform the same, adding difficulty and as such a challenge can only be done through added mechanics or different foes, there is a difference between difficulty and just being artificially made harder through stats requirement.
    I totally agree here. first when they talked about inferno I thought they also added some more mechanics make bosses instersting, some more scripting. But no they took the easy route in just increasing the health and damage which in the end was leading to the dilemma why they had such balance issues.
    However D2 was the same...
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    I'd claim you have no choice to ignore NV in D3 so it's just same same but different, and with the massive increase in XP gains in 1.07 they effectively could just as well remove MF/GF on gear, Paragon system and give everyone a base MF/GF of 375.
    I guess they will remove MF/GF from gear. Well I don't know what new game director will be doing here but I think they should never have brought this stats to D3 at all.
    Seeing people farming goblins and switching to mf gear to get some nice loots was really lame. It was a stupid mechanic.

    I get the point about replayability. However after balancing/nerfing a spec forced to level a new toon just to play again isn't fun. That was really a bad thing in D2 IMO. Even if you could level very fast to some higher level.
    Today in D3 with paragorn levels I am sure most people wouldn't like to level again.
    Don't know what the solution for this would be. I like the new mechanic of getting skills while I level, can play with it and experiment. It is bad that at the end you are forced in some direction again. But for me itis much more fun as D2 where you saved your skillpoint to spend them in higher skills you got later.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebria View Post
    I totally agree here. first when they talked about inferno I thought they also added some more mechanics make bosses instersting, some more scripting. But no they took the easy route in just increasing the health and damage which in the end was leading to the dilemma why they had such balance issues.
    However D2 was the same...
    Never said D2 wasn't the same on that regard, we where originally talking about where D3 actually improved from D2 though, claiming that D3 is more of a challenge just isn't accurate was more my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebria View Post
    I guess they will remove MF/GF from gear. Well I don't know what new game director will be doing here but I think they should never have brought this stats to D3 at all.
    Seeing people farming goblins and switching to mf gear to get some nice loots was really lame. It was a stupid mechanic.
    Perhaps they will, sadly doing so undermines the loot system yet once again, the stats them selfs are fine though but the mechanic where you are able to switch in to it for the killing blow isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebria View Post
    I get the point about replayability. However after balancing/nerfing a spec forced to level a new toon just to play again isn't fun. That was really a bad thing in D2 IMO. Even if you could level very fast to some higher level.
    Today in D3 with paragorn levels I am sure most people wouldn't like to level again.
    Don't know what the solution for this would be. I like the new mechanic of getting skills while I level, can play with it and experiment. It is bad that at the end you are forced in some direction again. But for me itis much more fun as D2 where you saved your skillpoint to spend them in higher skills you got later.
    There are loads of solutions to the problem that allows keeping talent trees, Blizzard as s company just has an unhealthy hatred towards the system so they don't explore them, just look at their comments on talent trees in WoW over the past few years and the fact that they used the same system for both WoW and D3 in the end, failing to counter the cookie cutter in both games.
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  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    There are loads of solutions to the problem that allows keeping talent trees, Blizzard as s company just has an unhealthy hatred towards the system so they don't explore them, just look at their comments on talent trees in WoW over the past few years and the fact that they used the same system for both WoW and D3 in the end, failing to counter the cookie cutter in both games.
    I don't like talent trees as they are either boring or just to complex to be used usefull without some guide.
    Most people tend to "what is the best" and use it. I think D2 and D3 are not far away here. Be it the tree that you look up in a guide or what runes you use is no difference IMO. So you still have the cookie cutter specs but just more freedom to switch between them dependend on the situation (speaking of wow here).
    If they remove the NV stack reset you get the same for D3.

    I enjoyed the leveling of D3. Getting new skills and runs was really nice. I just wanted to reach next level to see how the next rune might look like.
    It was more awesome as D2 leveling where I used low level skills as I needed my points for higher skills. I don't think I would have so much fun with a D2 like tree. Not sure why so much people want it back.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebria View Post
    I don't like talent trees as they are either boring or just to complex to be used usefull without some guide.
    Most people tend to "what is the best" and use it. I think D2 and D3 are not far away here. Be it the tree that you look up in a guide or what runes you use is no difference IMO. So you still have the cookie cutter specs but just more freedom to switch between them dependend on the situation (speaking of wow here).
    If they remove the NV stack reset you get the same for D3.
    The talent tree version gives you more individual options (illusion of options still creates the same feeling as actual options). You could always find a guide how to spec "as everyone else" I can't get the choices from a talent tree system from the current version, hence the game has suffered a loss, the skill system in D3 and WoW is catered to the lowest common denominator and streamlined for easy development at the cost of player option and choice.

    Not saying the old talent tree system was without flaws but instead that it could have been improved to become something much better than what it was, something that Blizzard had no interest in even considering as they decided for us that talent trees where no "fun".

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebria View Post
    I enjoyed the leveling of D3. Getting new skills and runs was really nice. I just wanted to reach next level to see how the next rune might look like.
    It was more awesome as D2 leveling where I used low level skills as I needed my points for higher skills. I don't think I would have so much fun with a D2 like tree. Not sure why so much people want it back.
    Because it can be so much more, most people make the same mistake you are doing now, as soon as someone argues for skill trees their mind goes to past designs and never open their mind for the possibility of improvements. You could allow a free respec once hitting max level, or every 10 levels to counter your issue with spending points, that's just of the top of my head how to solve one minor issue. At the end of the day having the system and improving on it doesn't take away from the game, removing it in favor of a less complex version with limited options that at the end of the day is subject to the same amount of cookie cutter is taking something away from some players in favor of...nothing.
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  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    Are you being this dense? Why buy a game you are disappointed with before it releases? That puts even more blame on the consumer for buying a product they are already disappointed in.


    You say it doesn't live up to expectations. I'm saying you had false expectations you should not have had.[COLOR="red"]
    Annual Pass - was still playing WoW at the time, and at the time I signed up several of the features I was looking forward to were still in the game. It *was* a win-win situation for me at the time.

    That said, you clearly still don't get it.

    When I say it didn't live up to expectations, I'm talking about the expectations they originally set for the game. You - for some reason I can't fathom - continue to think that I had these expectations at launch (or think my expectations weren't valid because the game wasn't finalized - either idea is ludicrous, at best). They were long gone by this point, and thus the game was already a disappointment, to a degree.

    Being locked into the AP, I was going to end up with it whether I wanted it or not. I still enjoyed the combat for a while, but given that I was also expecting the game to hold my attention for far longer - and the lack of end-game features, re-playability, and poor user experience trying to farm for decent items and getting crap over and over and over and over - led to it ultimately being a bigger disappointment than anticipated.

    Ultimately, my point stands - they created a set of expectations by introducing features and concepts. They then cut those features, and each time they did so they failed to meet the original expectation set. The fact that these features were cut prior to launch is immaterial - launch is not some magic milestone that locks in the version of the game as the version upon which one should set their expectations. This occurred independently of them not meeting the expectations set by it being the long anticipated sequel to D2.

    This isn't a difficult concept to understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Because it can be so much more, most people make the same mistake you are doing now, as soon as someone argues for skill trees their mind goes to past designs and never open their mind for the possibility of improvements. You could allow a free respec once hitting max level, or every 10 levels to counter your issue with spending points, that's just of the top of my head how to solve one minor issue. At the end of the day having the system and improving on it doesn't take away from the game, removing it in favor of a less complex version with limited options that at the end of the day is subject to the same amount of cookie cutter is taking something away from some players in favor of...nothing.
    PoE is a good example - about a dozen free skill points given out as rewards to quests, and you can farm Orbs of Regret to reset points one at a time. Wildly different builds encourage using a different character, but you're not permanently locked into your choices - you just have to work a bit to undo more than a few mistakes.

    Yet, as you said, people tend to think of the system as either being 100% permanent, or easily allowing respecs - It's almost as if people don't realize a middle-ground is possible and can absolutely work (and that some people might actually enjoy that approach). I think that's part of Blizzard's issue lately. They seem to be viewing things in a largely black or white spectrum (and often acting like their decision is the only good approach, but perhaps that's just me being cynical toward Blizz).
    Last edited by Berethos08; 2013-01-18 at 08:58 PM.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Because it can be so much more, most people make the same mistake you are doing now, as soon as someone argues for skill trees their mind goes to past designs and never open their mind for the possibility of improvements. You could allow a free respec once hitting max level, or every 10 levels to counter your issue with spending points, that's just of the top of my head how to solve one minor issue. At the end of the day having the system and improving on it doesn't take away from the game, removing it in favor of a less complex version with limited options that at the end of the day is subject to the same amount of cookie cutter is taking something away from some players in favor of...nothing.

    I don't understand what you are saying or how talent trees can ever be more varied.



    talent system = you have point you spend to make some abilities better than others.


    skill system = you have all those abilities to choose from without having to change anything.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 04:10 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Berethos08 View Post
    Annual Pass - was still playing WoW at the time, and at the time I signed up several of the features I was looking forward to were still in the game. It *was* a win-win situation for me at the time.

    That said, you clearly still don't get it.

    When I say it didn't live up to expectations, I'm talking about the expectations they originally set for the game. You - for some reason I can't fathom - continue to think that I had these expectations at launch (or think my expectations weren't valid because the game wasn't finalized - either idea is ludicrous, at best). They were long gone by this point, and thus the game was already a disappointment, to a degree.

    Being locked into the AP, I was going to end up with it whether I wanted it or not. I still enjoyed the combat for a while, but given that I was also expecting the game to hold my attention for far longer - and the lack of end-game features, re-playability, and poor user experience trying to farm for decent items and getting crap over and over and over and over - led to it ultimately being a bigger disappointment than anticipated.

    Ultimately, my point stands - they created a set of expectations by introducing features and concepts. They then cut those features, and each time they did so they failed to meet the original expectation set. The fact that these features were cut prior to launch is immaterial - launch is not some magic milestone that locks in the version of the game as the version upon which one should set their expectations. This occurred independently of them not meeting the expectations set by it being the long anticipated sequel to D2.

    This isn't a difficult concept to understand.

    You could have canceled the AP. Many did as you were never really "locked in". The AP was an agreement that you pay for the next 12 months of WoW and you get D3 free. Useing that as an excuse that you were forced to get the game is lame.



    You are the only one that can set expectations. I can expect to get a Ferrari while buying a ford. Doesn't mean it's going to happen.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Because it can be so much more, most people make the same mistake you are doing now, as soon as someone argues for skill trees their mind goes to past designs and never open their mind for the possibility of improvements. You could allow a free respec once hitting max level, or every 10 levels to counter your issue with spending points, that's just of the top of my head how to solve one minor issue. At the end of the day having the system and improving on it doesn't take away from the game, removing it in favor of a less complex version with limited options that at the end of the day is subject to the same amount of cookie cutter is taking something away from some players in favor of...nothing.
    Of course there is more. So thought the Blizz Dev team and brought us what we have now. Personal I enjoy what they did from the skill pov and I am not alone.
    It is not the best solution for sure and a lot of people seems to prefer some other solution based on the old trees. I think I get the idea what you are missing.

  11. #311
    So in the end it almost comes down to some stats on gear that could or could not be better based on personal opinion.

    And the fact you no longer have to level again when you push some wrong buttons in a skill based system (probably due to the fact that D2 uses a very ancient skill design that was overhauled for present day FAST internet play).

    All the rest there really is no discussion:

    D3 has FASTER gameplay, a MUCH faster engine, a far better graphics system and is far better adapted to present day internet play.

    Not even talking about challenging Elite packs that actually are good for some very nasty and pleasant surprises instead of endlessly beating ONE end boss...

    Once you look at the discussion above, there is only one explanation.

    It was about time D2 got adapted to this faster grinding mechanics in D3 with a challenge and internet play to find easy groups.

    And for people who disliked the constant massive cracking/duping/buying on shady websites in D2 ... there really is now a server controlled IN game AH...


    Pretty much sums up why I like to play D3.

    Patches 1.04 and 1.05 were already a great addition to this game and I like patch 1.07 (grind to craft BOA gear) because it is looking excellent too.

    So unless you really really dislike long grinding games with a fast responsive engine, D3 is quite good and a really modern evolution in this kind of play.

    Certainly with the latest patches.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-01-18 at 11:10 PM.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    So in the end it almost comes down to some stats on gear that could or could not be better based on personal opinion.

    And the fact you no longer have to level again when you push some wrong buttons in a skill based system (probably due to the fact that D2 uses a very ancient skill design that was overhauled for present day FAST internet play).

    All the rest there really is no discussion:

    D3 has FASTER gameplay, a MUCH faster engine, a far better graphics system and is far better adapted to present day internet play.

    Not even talking about challenging Elite packs that actually are good for some very nasty and pleasant surprises instead of endlessly beating ONE end boss...

    Once you look at the discussion above, there is only one explanation.

    It was about time D2 got adapted to this faster grinding mechanics in D3 with a challenge and internet play to find easy groups.

    And for people who disliked the constant massive cracking/duping/buying on shady websites in D2 ... there really is now a server controlled IN game AH...


    Pretty much sums up why I like to play D3.

    Patches 1.04 and 1.05 were already a great addition to this game and I like patch 1.07 (grind to craft BOA gear) because it is looking excellent too.

    So unless you really really dislike long grinding games with a fast responsive engine, D3 is quite good and a really modern evolution in this kind of play.

    Certainly with the latest patches.

    "really is no discussion" you used the term "opinion" several times now. these are yours, not facts.
    here's some facts without any personal opinion:
    1. game engine: irrelevant~
    d1: top down view, click to move, click to attack.
    d2: same as before.
    d3: same as before, adds in a completely useless zoomed in view.

    2. duping/piracy~
    you've been harping on these since your first entry in the thread.
    there IS duping, on a large scale.
    piracy- who cares, its bliz's problem not yours, you arent getting paid for any of the sales. besides your continual use of anti piracy as an effort of control seems more like you're pissed you couldnt just torrent the game yourself.

    3. faster gameplay and graphics
    some of the best games i ever played were 8-bit nes or even simpler atari or commodore games. graphics are not a selling point for at least 1/2 the marketplace.
    i never had any issues with d1 or d2 graphics. if you want to use graphics as a talking point, i find graphics GET IN THE WAY in d3, they add too much, "fire" on ground stacks with all other "fires" on the ground and cant see shit, add on top of that spell effects and who cares, its just a massive screenfull of yellow numbers.

    4 "It was about time D2 got adapted to this faster grinding mechanics in D3 with a challenge and internet play to find easy groups."
    how do you know "how" other players like to play or how they played d2?

    4 lastly patches. of course patches at least try to make the game better. no brainer, but the fact is game should never have been released earlier than the condition of 1.0.4. even now there are questionable bugs and design errors that just shouldnt be a factor at all.
    (ok, the release state IS opinion)

    fact: opinions =/= fact

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    You could have canceled the AP. Many did as you were never really "locked in". The AP was an agreement that you pay for the next 12 months of WoW and you get D3 free. Useing that as an excuse that you were forced to get the game is lame.



    You are the only one that can set expectations. I can expect to get a Ferrari while buying a ford. Doesn't mean it's going to happen.
    Didn't sign up for the AP to get Diablo 3...that would be an idiotic move, at best. I signed up because I was interested in supporting WoW at the time, interested in the in-game perks, and interested in getting into the MoP beta. The fact that, at the time, I was also interested in what Blizzard had shown of Diablo 3 was an additional perk, but hardly the sole reason. I also was not claiming that I was forced to get the game, merely that due to my other commitment the game came into my possession, regardless of my interest in it or lack thereof.

    Additionally, it is the company that creates the things by which expectations are set. If you were to be told you were getting a nice car with things like built-in GPS, leather heated seats, an amazing stereo system, built-in Blu-ray player, and a custom paint job, you would set your expectation according to that. If, in the course of putting together that car, you were told that first the GPS was removed because they couldn't get it to work properly, then that the stereo system was on back-order, and finally that the deal with Sony fell through so you were getting a DVD player instead of a Blu-ray player...then your original expectation has not been met. You can, at that point, choose to alter your expectations to the new lower standard, but nothing changes the fact that whoever was making your car did not live up to the original expectations, which is bound to cause disappointment. Then, when the car arrives, the custom paint job you wanted is not there, and the seats aren't heated.

    That's pretty much what happened with D3.

    Honestly, the idea that only the consumer is responsible for expectations when it comes to a product is laughable. Both parties are responsible.
    Last edited by Berethos08; 2013-01-18 at 11:46 PM.

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    I don't understand what you are saying or how talent trees can ever be more varied.

    talent system = you have point you spend to make some abilities better than others.

    skill system = you have all those abilities to choose from without having to change anything.
    Talent trees allow for player enhancing specific abilities to fit the way they want to play the character in a wide array choices, choices that grants skills.

    Skill system we have currently allows use of all skills, using runes to modify them in very set ways.

    One allows the player to build he's character and make all the choices, the other limits the choices the player has in the first place. The first is able to be used by all with no loss of player decisions the second sacrifices the player options in favor of more streamlined development and the players that was burdened by clicking to assign X talent points according tot he guide they just read.

    I hope you can see why one is preferable from a diverse player base point of view over the other.
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  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Talent trees allow for player enhancing specific abilities to fit the way they want to play the character in a wide array choices, choices that grants skills.

    Skill system we have currently allows use of all skills, using runes to modify them in very set ways.

    One allows the player to build he's character and make all the choices, the other limits the choices the player has in the first place. The first is able to be used by all with no loss of player decisions the second sacrifices the player options in favor of more streamlined development and the players that was burdened by clicking to assign X talent points according tot he guide they just read.

    I hope you can see why one is preferable from a diverse player base point of view over the other.
    I noticed this to while leveling. I never used arcane missles for example but somehow still got runes for arcane missles. It bugged me that whatever abilities I got lvling not only didn't reflect my choice but they didn't reflect my play style either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  16. #316
    Over 9000! Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Talent trees allow for player enhancing specific abilities to fit the way they want to play the character in a wide array choices, choices that grants skills.

    Skill system we have currently allows use of all skills, using runes to modify them in very set ways.

    One allows the player to build he's character and make all the choices, the other limits the choices the player has in the first place. The first is able to be used by all with no loss of player decisions the second sacrifices the player options in favor of more streamlined development and the players that was burdened by clicking to assign X talent points according tot he guide they just read.

    I hope you can see why one is preferable from a diverse player base point of view over the other.
    Talent trees will limit a player more than just abilities. The only real limitation in either system is how many talents/skills they put in a game. If they were to be just as many talent choices as there are current skills you wouldn't get any more choice either way.


    With talent points you are limits on what skills you can use by where you spend your points.


    Without talent trees you can use any skill you want to.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    Talent trees will limit a player more than just abilities. The only real limitation in either system is how many talents/skills they put in a game. If they were to be just as many talent choices as there are current skills you wouldn't get any more choice either way.

    With talent points you are limits on what skills you can use by where you spend your points.

    Without talent trees you can use any skill you want to.
    1. There isn't as many skills with the new system as there was with the old.
    2. You could enhance any skill of your choosing with as many talent points as you had, the skill system is static.

    At the end of the day the current skill system has limited the options available to the player, not caring about that or thinking it's good only shows how egoistical view of the game you have, or is your finger hurt that bad by applying the points?
    Active PoE: @MajorAsshole EvE: Redblade (Reikoku)
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  18. #318
    Epic! Duncanîdaho's Avatar
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    I was really hoping for an entirely new gem for all resistances(like diamonds in shields in D2) this patch when I heard about the gems but o well maybe in the expansion. I'm sick of getting good chest pieces with awesome offensive stats and 3 sockets but I can't use it on my monk because I have no way of adding some resistance to it. Especially when I play a monk and need two different types of resistance specifically. Thrown/sold out so many decent dex+vit+ 3 socket chests just because they had no resistance. Yet If I get a chest with decent resistances and 3 sockets but low stats I can at least salvage it by loading it with base stat gems. Seems like such a waste to be able to at least salvage it one way, and not the other.

    I'm not talking about the high end gear either obviously, it would just be nice for monks just hitting inferno though or something and they can't yet afford the best gear on the AH. MY major beef with D3 is that it takes so much more effort to find good gear without using the AH. Having resistance gems would at least help to alleviate that for gear for starting inferno.
    The generalist looks outward; he looks for living principles, knowing full well that such principles change, that they develop. It is to the characteristics of change itself that the mentat-generalist must look. There can be no permanent catalogue of such change, no handbook or manual. You must look at it with as few preconceptions as possible, asking yourself, "Now what is this thing doing?" -Children of Dune

  19. #319
    Over 9000! Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    1. There isn't as many skills with the new system as there was with the old.
    2. You could enhance any skill of your choosing with as many talent points as you had, the skill system is static.

    At the end of the day the current skill system has limited the options available to the player, not caring about that or thinking it's good only shows how egoistical view of the game you have, or is your finger hurt that bad by applying the points?

    just to show you how wrong you are.

    http://www.diablofans.com/page/tools/skill/index.html

    Every class had 30 talents to pick from


    Compare those 30 talents to this

    http://www.diablowiki.com/Barbarian/Skill_Progression
    http://www.diablowiki.com/Barbarian#Active_Skills

    22 active spells to choose at any time (Not counting runes which effectively triples this number)
    16 passive skills to choose from.

    Thats 38 choices Vs 30.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    D3 has FASTER gameplay, a MUCH faster engine, a far better graphics system and is far better adapted to present day internet play.
    So you basically like D3 just because it's adapted for the modern game market? Yeah, the technical aspects are all upgraded since D2.

    The fun aspects... not so much.

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Not even talking about challenging Elite packs that actually are good for some very nasty and pleasant surprises instead of endlessly beating ONE end boss...
    I guess you never did Uber Tristram. And you probably never played Diablo 1 either, because Diablo 1 was much harder than Diablo 2, which was harder than Diablo 3.

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