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  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterisbest View Post
    Sorry to break it to you, but tanks are top dps on 8 out of 16 fights. And they are beating dps by mile on some. Playing wrong?
    There is nothing to break to anyone I'm afraid, if your raiding with tanks and there at the top of the dps meters then something is badly wrong with the DPS and the DPS need to up there game is all I can say. The only exception is perhaps AOE fights in which case DPS should still beat them but tanks can do decent dps there and heroics and neither of them really count as a valid point.
    Science has made us gods even before we are worthy of being men: Jean Rostand. Yeah, Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair colour!.
    Classic: "The tank is the driver, the healer is the fuel, and the DPS are the kids sitting in the back seat screaming and asking if they're there yet."
    Irony >> "do they even realize that having a state religion IS THE REASON WE LEFT BRITTEN? god these people are idiots"

  2. #362
    As someone who has been tanking for years I enjoy finally contributing a worthwhile amount of dps to the raid. It is far more enjoyable to put up big numbers sometimes even if it is do to a large amount of adds or some gimmick. As a dps you should know the feeling of BIG NUMBERS MAKE ME WANNA PLAY WOW!! Although I understand that it shouldn't be like that for every fight and it's not, so I don't see a problem.

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterisbest View Post
    Sorry to break to you, then you haven't done a real raid with real tanks and real dps.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-12 at 07:06 PM ----------



    He is compeltely right in what he is saying. Monks tanks outheal healers on the 4th boss in HoF.

    You do seem fond of "Sorry to break it to you" and the fail on the point your making lol, I think you need to accept that your "experience" of dps in raids is in the minority and tanks are not ahead of the dps in 99% of cases in raiding. I also have never in 8 years of playing seen a tank in a normal or heroic raid out damage the dps unless the DPS is failing so hard and standing in stuff there not meant to or are dead.

    also so comment on "He is completely right in what he is saying. Monks tanks out heal healers on the 4th boss in HoF" .... your basing your compains about one fight???? one single fight from how many.

    And don't forget that the monk on that fight MAY do more healing but a majority of it will be over healing and wasted compared to the healer having more healing thats actually useful.

    DPS can contribute by doing the dps your supposed to be and by taking as little damage as possible and not dying, why you should think thats not a valuable contribution I do not know.
    Science has made us gods even before we are worthy of being men: Jean Rostand. Yeah, Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair colour!.
    Classic: "The tank is the driver, the healer is the fuel, and the DPS are the kids sitting in the back seat screaming and asking if they're there yet."
    Irony >> "do they even realize that having a state religion IS THE REASON WE LEFT BRITTEN? god these people are idiots"

  4. #364
    Pit Lord Slavemaker's Avatar
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    It's not about who is at the top of a stupid meter, it's about downing the boss as a team.

  5. #365
    Hahaha OP I bet you don't remember the type of DPS that as long as they were topping charts they didn't care about stealing aggro because they wouldn't use any CD to reduce their threat and of course they wouldn't stop DPSing becuase ththey wouldnt be top 1 on the DPS charts... yet you come here whining about Vengeance...

    The vengeance problem was created by those dps that wouldnt care about controlling their aggro just because "they wanted to top dps"
    Last edited by Moinaldo; 2013-01-13 at 05:20 PM.

  6. #366
    Tanks should tank, let dps do their job. Vengeance is terrible and should be changed, make abilities generate X% more threat during Y% seconds.

  7. #367
    The Lightbringer The Caretaker's Avatar
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    As soon as Blizzard buffed the threat from Defensive Stance/Righteous Fury/Blood Presence/Bear Form back during (IIRC) 4.2, Vengeance became superfluous. It's high time it was removed, as I've yet to see a decent reason for it being in the game.

    Hell, even prior to 4.2, it was unnecessary - but I digress.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Well, it is possible for people, many people actually, to not think very highly of World of Warcraft. Those self same people may even consider other games in the genre superior due to their own subjective qualifiers. Qualifiers which are just as valid as the subjective qualifiers of those whom believe World of Warcraft is a "23 out of 10".

  8. #368
    most fights tanks arent meant to be top dps, imo its fine, it actually makes tanking a bit more exciting, I'm more annoyed at how our dps flucutates between fights rather than being stable though : P

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeMeLaugh View Post
    Tanks should tank, let dps do their job. Vengeance is terrible and should be changed, make abilities generate X% more threat during Y% seconds.
    Here let me through this at you, Vengeance is fine, everyone do their jobs kill the boss get loot move forward in progression as a raid TEAM...
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ckabear/simple

    Ideally no one has ever hit the level cap of the last expansion, looked at their dungeon blues, and thought "I win."

  10. #370
    Elemental Lord Arbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    That means your DPS are playing wrong.

    Our DPS destroy our Tanks usually.

    I say usually because there's always one or two people who lag behind because of gear and barely beat them.

    Perfect example: our Monk and DK tanks have about a 498 iLevel, and our sub in Paladin DPS who has a 468 iLevel barely beat them. See the gear difference? He still beat them.
    Destil I thank you once again, toke the words right outta my mouth.
    I'm neither Pro or Anti Flying, I just have a different opinion on the matter.

  11. #371
    Pit Lord Bryntrollian's Avatar
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    Tanks doing 1 million dps on heroic windlord says hi
    Synek - best rogue in the world
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I don't think I know what the acronym "tsg" is. It's not RBG's or Arena, random battlegrounds, or any form of dungeon or raid that I can think of. What does it mean?

  12. #372
    I certainly think that Vengeance could use some work. To quote part of Lucetia
    Yes, let's just amplify tank abilities threat by +500% (or some stupid number) so all you do is go back to autoattacking a boss because that was so much more fun.
    Fundamentally the current Vengeance mechanic is no different than the way tank aggro worked before. Allow tank to establish aggro, then go crazy. The aggro falloff is just different.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckadoodle View Post
    Here let me through this at you, Vengeance is fine, everyone do their jobs kill the boss get loot move forward in progression as a raid TEAM...
    Tanks should care about threat and right now they don't.

  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    This is exactly the kind of attitude that vengeance and the wild powers Blizzard hands to tanks has caused.



    Actually, no. If you are on challenging content, you should need people to be alive for it. We've killed bosses with evasion when both tanks are down, we've killed bosses by kiting when both tanks are down. We've had ferals go bear in the olden days and use heart of the wild in the modern times. Yea, on average it's easier to recover from a dps missing, because you have more dps and you might not be doing something that stretches them- for most guilds, mechanics are more limiting than dps, because they wait until they overgear fights before trying them. But that doesn't make the tank "more important".

    Actually he is right and a general rule tanks are more important than a single dps its not an elitist point just how the game and encounters are designed especially in 25 man. Lose a DPS and your not to be lose a tank on a 2 tank fight and its a wipe. Its a simple game of numbers. You bring the minimum tanks for a fight ie 2 and the min healers and the maximum number of DPS so who in those conditions is expendable .... the DPS and every fight it the same. Tanking is the minority role because not many ppl want to be one and not many are actually needed.

    Why you see this simple fact as a insult when its how the game has always been I cannot fathom. You saying "you have evasion tanked a boss or kited one works only as a very shot solution and for only a few bosses its not going to kill a boss at 40% health.

    DPS are important and no boss would be killed without them, same goes for tanks and healer but from a single player roll it goes Tanks > Healer > DPS and thats beyond debate and we play in a game with the holy trinity
    Science has made us gods even before we are worthy of being men: Jean Rostand. Yeah, Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair colour!.
    Classic: "The tank is the driver, the healer is the fuel, and the DPS are the kids sitting in the back seat screaming and asking if they're there yet."
    Irony >> "do they even realize that having a state religion IS THE REASON WE LEFT BRITTEN? god these people are idiots"

  15. #375
    Actually just look: http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/226658/rankings/players/

    This is my guild's ranking page, i rank on several fights, most of these im just equal or below the dps.. not too bad imo, theres only stone guard heroic and wnd lord where i vastly outdps my guild, but these fights are special... so if my guild can do equal or better dps than me when i rank i dont see the problem : O

  16. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeekphreak View Post
    I certainly think that Vengeance could use some work. To quote part of Lucetia
    Fundamentally the current Vengeance mechanic is no different than the way tank aggro worked before. Allow tank to establish aggro, then go crazy. The aggro falloff is just different.
    As has been posted Vengeance is more than that, its a catchup mechanism. As in later tiers all the DPS will scale and there damage will go up and up while the tanks threat will not increase by much as on the new gears we get more dmg mitigation and avoidance and stam but not much more strength. So we gain survivability with new gear but not much threat. So Vengeance allows us to keep up artificially with the much boosted DPS.

    And its actually nice to be able to contribute some damage to a raid
    Science has made us gods even before we are worthy of being men: Jean Rostand. Yeah, Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair colour!.
    Classic: "The tank is the driver, the healer is the fuel, and the DPS are the kids sitting in the back seat screaming and asking if they're there yet."
    Irony >> "do they even realize that having a state religion IS THE REASON WE LEFT BRITTEN? god these people are idiots"

  17. #377
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeMeLaugh View Post
    Tanks should care about threat and right now they don't.
    No, they shouldn't. Tanks should care about doing their primary job: surviving. That's why Blizzard moved tank focus from threat to active defenses.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Waterisbest View Post
    Tanks do everything, take dmg, position boss, dps boss. Healers heal, and dps do dps. Tanks are given far too much importance, and yes, healers and dps are just there to support tanks. MoP's raiding is nothing like any of the previous WoW versions.
    Their dps is just an arbitrary number. Its irrelevant.

    You're not going to replace any of your DPS with Tanks. The purpose of a tank has not changed to DPS, because they can't compete with DPS unless they're taking damage themself.
    They're still tanks, they maintain their primairy role.
    Their role isn't to DPS, they just happen to manage competitive numbers doing their tanking purpose.

    Everyone is so focussed on the crappy numbers displayed on a meter that they can't see past the fact that tanks just deal this amount of damage for threat scaling purpose.

    If they drop down damage of tanks, nothing will change, they will only tweak healthbars from bosses to compensate for this.
    They will still do the same thing they did before, but then threat becomes an issue with the ever so increasing DPS due to stat scaling.
    "There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want" - Calvin and Hobbes

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyen View Post
    Actually just look: http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/226658/rankings/players/

    This is my guild's ranking page, i rank on several fights, most of these im just equal or below the dps.. not too bad imo, theres only stone guard heroic and wnd lord where i vastly outdps my guild, but these fights are special... so if my guild can do equal or better dps than me when i rank i dont see the problem : O
    Those are rankings among your class/spec only. You could rank 1 on all those and still not actually rank in the fight overall the classes/specs.

  20. #380
    High Overlord ThatsOurEric's Avatar
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    Who cares? If no one dies in the encounter and the job gets done, why complain? Just play and have fun.

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