It's not about who is at the top of a stupid meter, it's about downing the boss as a team.
It's not about who is at the top of a stupid meter, it's about downing the boss as a team.
Hahaha OP I bet you don't remember the type of DPS that as long as they were topping charts they didn't care about stealing aggro because they wouldn't use any CD to reduce their threat and of course they wouldn't stop DPSing becuase ththey wouldnt be top 1 on the DPS charts... yet you come here whining about Vengeance...
The vengeance problem was created by those dps that wouldnt care about controlling their aggro just because "they wanted to top dps"
Last edited by Moinaldo; 2013-01-13 at 05:20 PM.
Tanks should tank, let dps do their job. Vengeance is terrible and should be changed, make abilities generate X% more threat during Y% seconds.
As soon as Blizzard buffed the threat from Defensive Stance/Righteous Fury/Blood Presence/Bear Form back during (IIRC) 4.2, Vengeance became superfluous. It's high time it was removed, as I've yet to see a decent reason for it being in the game.
Hell, even prior to 4.2, it was unnecessary - but I digress.
most fights tanks arent meant to be top dps, imo its fine, it actually makes tanking a bit more exciting, I'm more annoyed at how our dps flucutates between fights rather than being stable though : P
Ideally no one has ever hit the level cap of the last expansion, looked at their dungeon blues, and thought "I win."
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...all/chuckabear
I certainly think that Vengeance could use some work. To quote part of LucetiaFundamentally the current Vengeance mechanic is no different than the way tank aggro worked before. Allow tank to establish aggro, then go crazy. The aggro falloff is just different.Yes, let's just amplify tank abilities threat by +500% (or some stupid number) so all you do is go back to autoattacking a boss because that was so much more fun.
Actually he is right and a general rule tanks are more important than a single dps its not an elitist point just how the game and encounters are designed especially in 25 man. Lose a DPS and your not to be lose a tank on a 2 tank fight and its a wipe. Its a simple game of numbers. You bring the minimum tanks for a fight ie 2 and the min healers and the maximum number of DPS so who in those conditions is expendable .... the DPS and every fight it the same. Tanking is the minority role because not many ppl want to be one and not many are actually needed.
Why you see this simple fact as a insult when its how the game has always been I cannot fathom. You saying "you have evasion tanked a boss or kited one works only as a very shot solution and for only a few bosses its not going to kill a boss at 40% health.
DPS are important and no boss would be killed without them, same goes for tanks and healer but from a single player roll it goes Tanks > Healer > DPS and thats beyond debate and we play in a game with the holy trinity
Science has made us gods even before we are worthy of being men: Jean Rostand. Yeah, Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair colour!.
Classic: "The tank is the driver, the healer is the fuel, and the DPS are the kids sitting in the back seat screaming and asking if they're there yet."
Irony >> "do they even realize that having a state religion IS THE REASON WE LEFT BRITTEN? god these people are idiots"
Actually just look: http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/226658/rankings/players/
This is my guild's ranking page, i rank on several fights, most of these im just equal or below the dps.. not too bad imo, theres only stone guard heroic and wnd lord where i vastly outdps my guild, but these fights are special... so if my guild can do equal or better dps than me when i rank i dont see the problem : O
As has been posted Vengeance is more than that, its a catchup mechanism. As in later tiers all the DPS will scale and there damage will go up and up while the tanks threat will not increase by much as on the new gears we get more dmg mitigation and avoidance and stam but not much more strength. So we gain survivability with new gear but not much threat. So Vengeance allows us to keep up artificially with the much boosted DPS.
And its actually nice to be able to contribute some damage to a raid
Science has made us gods even before we are worthy of being men: Jean Rostand. Yeah, Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair colour!.
Classic: "The tank is the driver, the healer is the fuel, and the DPS are the kids sitting in the back seat screaming and asking if they're there yet."
Irony >> "do they even realize that having a state religion IS THE REASON WE LEFT BRITTEN? god these people are idiots"
Their dps is just an arbitrary number. Its irrelevant.
You're not going to replace any of your DPS with Tanks. The purpose of a tank has not changed to DPS, because they can't compete with DPS unless they're taking damage themself.
They're still tanks, they maintain their primairy role.
Their role isn't to DPS, they just happen to manage competitive numbers doing their tanking purpose.
Everyone is so focussed on the crappy numbers displayed on a meter that they can't see past the fact that tanks just deal this amount of damage for threat scaling purpose.
If they drop down damage of tanks, nothing will change, they will only tweak healthbars from bosses to compensate for this.
They will still do the same thing they did before, but then threat becomes an issue with the ever so increasing DPS due to stat scaling.
There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want
Who cares? If no one dies in the encounter and the job gets done, why complain? Just play and have fun.
And to be honest ive been a tank since vanilla, started raiding in BC... I'm damn glad they got rid of the "Tank does 5-10% of the damage of a dps" design, it sucked balls to see myself do 100-200 dps when everybody else is doing 1000-1500, puts some more excitement in the role.
I'd say tanking is at it's most fun it's ever been, high dps, dont have to bang your head to get threat, although the threat game was kinda fun in BC... active mitigation requires some thought, what's not to like? Leave our fun alone.
You didn't need this in past expansions I don't get why you'd need it now.
Vengeance is an extremely poor mechanic and pretty much offers the reverse of what not-so-capable tanks wanted to get into tanking. Instead of fixing the system blizzard just bump up base threat each tier so now anyone who even read their spells upon dinging (new player POV) can hold agro.
Active tanking - I repeat - does not need to be tied to vengeance in the slightest and is not an excuse to keep such a failed mechanic ingame. We have had varying levels of implementation with active tanking since at least TBC, dk's were known for their active tanking in cata which did not run off vengeance at all, etc.
@Dreyen "our fun"? Ever considered some people dropped tank because it became so passive and boring? Others enjoyed the old style, and while you can't argue preferences you can argue a mechanic that has done nothing but add issues since it's implementation.