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  1. #41
    I am Murloc! Xanjori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayburner View Post
    Well thats good news indeed. But are they still killing each other over what God is the right God?
    I dont believe the cause of it is religion so much anymore, I think its definitely more political. It just happens that generally the two different political groups are backed by a different religion.
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by peggleftw View Post
    i was wondering this, would the RoI even want it back?
    the RoI cant afford to have it back. They have been offered it back.. TWICE and refused both times. The amount of money that gets pumped into NI to police and prop up a lot of other issues is staggering

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-12 at 08:44 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayburner View Post
    Well thats good news indeed. But are they still killing each other over what God is the right God?
    They never disputed which god as catholics and protestants are both part of the same church (wait for someone to flame me for saying that) basic both believe in the same god just go about it different ways.

  3. #43
    Mechagnome larrakeyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsubodia View Post
    the RoI cant afford to have it back. They have been offered it back.. TWICE and refused both times. The amount of money that gets pumped into NI to police and prop up a lot of other issues is staggering
    You talking about Churchill's offer?

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-12 at 10:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsubodia View Post
    They never disputed which god as catholics and protestants are both part of the same church (wait for someone to flame me for saying that) basic both believe in the same god just go about it different ways.
    The Catholic god has nothing to do with the Presbyterian one.

  4. #44
    Stood in the Fire Hildefuns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayburner View Post
    Now i'm even more confused.
    This will help: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...diagram_15.svg

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    I dont believe the cause of it is religion so much anymore, I think its definitely more political. It just happens that generally the two different political groups are backed by a different religion.
    It really is rooted in religion, its hard to believe in this day and age, but I live in scotland, I have seen the rangers and celtic games, its psycho

  6. #46
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    Shouldn't you always fly the flag of the Union you are a part of? That's silly otherwise. If that Union Jack isn't Irish enough for you, then ask the UK to update the flag to include something irish.

  7. #47
    I am Murloc! Tommo's Avatar
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    I dont see why they dont just put it back and end the violence, I mean there wasnt protests to remove it was there? From what ive seen it was peaceful before hand.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-12 at 08:55 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by undercovergnome View Post
    It really is rooted in religion, its hard to believe in this day and age, but I live in scotland, I have seen the rangers and celtic games, its psycho
    Dont think we'll get anymore old firm games at this rate. (thank fuck)

  8. #48
    I think this is a little more than bizarre combined with a very politicised action. Northern Ireland, much as some people hate this, is British - I'm not going into right or wrong in all of this (ultimately it's not something that is of concern to me), but that's the situation. However what I do think needs to be said is that I don't condone the rioters actions, that's blind fuckin stupidity - but I can also look at this and see a secondary point.

    I believe the action to remove the flag from City Hall as one aimed squarely at inciting these clowns - that's what they wanted to do in order to discredit the Unionists, portray them as savages and it's got to be said, the dozy prats have played right into their hands. (a minority thereof I should point out) The truth is there was no need to take the flag down unless you were looking for a political statement, but there are bigger issues in Belfast than needing to take such a blatantly inflamatory action!

    There's no love lost by me towards being British, I'm a proud Scottish Nationalist but I can't see any sense in either taking the Union Flag down nor can I see any point in setting shit on fire as a result because ultimately it's shot any credibility of their protests in the foot!
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  9. #49
    Mechagnome larrakeyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    Shouldn't you always fly the flag of the Union you are a part of? That's silly otherwise. If that Union Jack isn't Irish enough for you, then ask the UK to update the flag to include something irish.
    In the UK (except in Northern Ireland) the flag only flies the designated days not ALWAYS. The Belfast City Council voted to get in line with the rest of the UK, a DEMOCRATIC decision i might add. I really don't see the problem, the rioters should actually be happy, the province is now closer to the UK.

  10. #50
    Mechagnome Guilu's Avatar
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    Aren't the riots happening in the unemployment heavy parts of Belfast ?

  11. #51
    I think it's pathetic that it's still going on.

    Triple the sentence for being involved in this shit and see how many people are willing to go to prison for 15 years.

  12. #52
    Brewmaster Wiyld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by larrakeyah View Post
    The Catholic god has nothing to do with the Presbyterian one.


    I believe the word you are looking for is Protestant.


    They share the same God, the same roots, the same Holy Book, 99% of the two branches is exactly the same.

    The major difference is the earth bound power structure.

    Catholics have a strong earthly power structure headed by the pope, with a control system that branches down from there.


    Protestants refused that system and struck out of their own in the Reformation. Protestants are essentially the Christian rebels. They can't even agree amongst themselves on the details of their beliefs so they have fractured into many many many different secs themselves. The only things Protestants generally agree on universally is that Christ is God and they are not Catholics.


    Outside the power structure the details that differentiate Protestants and Catholics are relatively insignificant. Catholics put heavy emphasis on Mother Mary's divinity while Protestants reject that and claim she was a whole mortal, normal woman who was simply blessed by God to be the mother of Jesus.

    Catholics put heavy emphasis on saints, mortal humans who achieved a level of divinity in their lives, enough that they grew significantly closer to God. Protestants reject this claiming that there is only God, or the Triune, and man is man.

    So as you can see, the differences are really more a matter of practice then they are broad concepts.

    A Catholic could attend a Protestant church service and feel pretty familiar with the teachings and practices, and vice versa.
    Last edited by Wiyld; 2013-01-12 at 09:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillern View Post
    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

  13. #53
    Mechagnome larrakeyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiyld View Post
    I believe the word you are looking for is Protestant.

    They share the same God, the same roots, the same Holy Book, 99% of the two branches is exactly the same.

    So as you can see, the differences are really more a matter of practice then they are broad concepts.

    A Catholic could attend a Protestant church service and feel pretty familiar with the teachings and practices, and vice versa.
    No, the word I'm looking for is Presbyterian, there's a really huge difference between the protestant denominations in Ireland. Presbyterians are the majority and the most sectarian. I would agree with you if talking about Anglicans, Anglicanism is 99% similar to Catholicism.

    Even if the book is the same the interpretations are so diametrically opposed it effectively creates a diferent conception of God. I doubt i could attend a Presbyterian "service" and realize what's going on.

  14. #54
    Brewmaster Wiyld's Avatar
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    I'm an American, with an admittedly weak understanding of the detailed history of the actual British Isles.

    But it seems to me, that the flag isn't the issue. A flag is nothing more then a symbol, so people protesting a flags use one way or the other are not generally actually concerned about the flag itself, but what it represents.

    So......continuing to focus on this flag as the issue is kind of avoiding the actual problems. Its debating a symptom instead of the actual disease.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-12 at 04:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by larrakeyah View Post
    No, the word I'm looking for is Presbyterian, there's a really huge difference between the protestant denominations in Ireland. Presbyterians are the majority and the most sectarian. I would agree with you if talking about Anglicans, Anglicanism is 99% similar to Catholicism.

    Even if the book is the same the interpretations are so diametrically opposed it effectively creates a diferent conception of God. I doubt i could attend a Presbyterian "service" and realize what's going on.

    We have Presbyterians here in the US too, a great many. Unless they are wildly different across the Atlantic, they are simply another Protestant sect. The words you use suggest you have not ever attended a service. Why don't you try it? It sounds like your speaking from hearsay and not actual experience.

    Also, from Wikipedia:

    Presbyterianism is the second largest Protestant denomination in the island of Ireland (after the Anglican Church of Ireland
    Last edited by Wiyld; 2013-01-12 at 09:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillern View Post
    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

  15. #55
    Mechagnome larrakeyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiyld View Post
    We have Presbyterians here in the US too, a great many. Unless they are wildly different across the Atlantic, they are simply another Protestant sect. The words you use suggest you have not ever attended a service. Why don't you try it? It sounds like your speaking from hearsay and not actual experience.
    No thanks, due to the fact that I'm a devout Catholic ("Roman Catholic" for the proddies) and Presbyterians consider the Pope the Anti-Christ.

  16. #56
    Brewmaster Wiyld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by larrakeyah View Post
    No thanks, due to the fact that I'm a devout Catholic ("Roman Catholic" for the proddies) and Presbyterians consider the Pope the Anti-Christ.

    Yes, that's a good way to solve our problems. Maintain your separatist mindset, spew incorrect propagandist bullshit and refuse to even explore the other side to actually learn anything about them.


    Your as bad as the evangelicals who refuse to have anything to do with a Muslim because ' der da debil!!'
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillern View Post
    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

  17. #57
    Mechagnome larrakeyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiyld View Post
    Also, from Wikipedia:

    Presbyterianism is the second largest Protestant denomination in the island of Ireland (after the Anglican Church of Ireland
    The problem is in NI, check the religious makeup there, the majority are lowlander scots.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by larrakeyah View Post
    No thanks, due to the fact that I'm a devout Catholic ("Roman Catholic" for the proddies) and Presbyterians consider the Pope the Anti-Christ.
    It's sad to see a lovely place like the emerald isle to be torn by petty conflict. Especially as silly of something like a flag. . .

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasconcellos View Post
    They should put that on the flag.

  20. #60
    Brewmaster
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    I've said this before, due to how little a shit I could give about the north anymore, but why cant they just hold a vote? And actually see what the people want to happen? I mean there is no harm in it because unless I am very much mistaken it would be a one side vote picking to stay in the uk. And then no one can argue because it would proof what the people want etc.

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