Page 1 of 3
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #1

    Item Upgrades with honor/conq. WHY? and pvp rant.

    Why is this being implemented?

    This just separates hardcore and casual players yet again, i thought wow was moving towards Battlegrounds being balanced gear wise ( minus t2 weps)
    with the removal of arena rating gear.

    Adding a system to upgrade stats, makes a larger gap between those who start pvping and those in full pvp gear with fully upgraded stats.
    Which puts people off pvping when then get completely stomped on because of gear.

    IMO in a perfect world blizz should take advice from GW2 PvP.
    Im not a big fan of GW2 but the idea they had about PvP gear was brilliant.

    Everyone goes in with the same stats, so the pvp is not about "Oh look i have a full set of gear and a t2 wep, i automatically win this fight"
    the reward for playing alot of pvp in gw2 was better looking gear but no stat upgrades.
    Is is not ridiculous that good players should get stat upgrades anyway? If you already have a skill advantage of being a better player why should the game then reward you with a damage/defensive increase?

    -Back on topic. Adding item upgrades with conq/honor means you never really finish a set of gear and that really annoys me, the main reason i dont PVE is because the whole things seems like a pointless gear grind that never ever ends, where you're not really there to enjoy yourself just get gear to increase your Epeen.
    I like the fact that i can actually finish gear and just enjoy battelgrounds, not thinking "how much honor do i need for my upgrade".

    IMO stat upgrades are a horrible idea, seems another thing i will just have to deal with.



    Anyone Like/dislike this being implemented i would like to know where the pvp community stands on it


    Sorry for the rant i kinda got way off topic there.
    Last edited by GiHa; 2012-11-02 at 11:24 AM.

  2. #2
    Well when you have bis on pve gear and patch comes, then you have to farm better gear. But pvp is close to same. New season starts and new gear is there

  3. #3
    while it may definitely be tougher on people new to pvp, i've never had trouble in BGs in honor gear vs people fully decked out in arena gear.

    When I get killed in a 1v1 or whatever in a bg, it's because I got outplayed, and when I kill people it's because I outplay them.

    Sure there might be some slight edge from gear, but not enough to make a systematic difference imo.

    (though I do find the change really annoying)
    loljk

  4. #4
    Pandaren Monk Zogarth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    1,917
    I agree. PvP should be about skill not gear. I unsubbed because i got bored of the game since pvp is so retarded with burst dps atm, but if i come back in 1-2 months, I will have no chance of getting high rating in this season simply because i am outgeared. And people who say: "Oh, the difference is not that big, they just outplay you"... Bullshit. If we are of equal skill he will win. And WoW does not have a that high skillcap to begin with. There is a reason why the classes with legendarys dominate PvP in the season where the legendarys are relevant.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Kekkeri View Post
    while it may definitely be tougher on people new to pvp, i've never had trouble in BGs in honor gear vs people fully decked out in arena gear.

    When I get killed in a 1v1 or whatever in a bg, it's because I got outplayed, and when I kill people it's because I outplay them.

    Sure there might be some slight edge from gear, but not enough to make a systematic difference imo.

    (though I do find the change really annoying)
    And who wins when you and your opponent have equal skill? The guy with the most gear..

  6. #6
    Brewmaster Klingers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Parliament of the Daleks
    Posts
    1,369
    Here's the clever (depending on which side of the dev table you're sitting on) paradigm: This isn't actually about item upgrades.

    It's a design decision to extend the time that you'll spend subbed and doing dailies or dungeon runs trying to meet your weekly valor cap. You know why? Because they will balance content around gear item level X, subtract 8 ilvls from that arbitrary number and then say "Here, guess what? You can upgrade your gear with valor points!".

    Real world example: It's no different then getting today what would have been 90% of a game six years ago and getting the other 10% today as DLC you have to pay extra for.

    It's dodgy as all hell, but ilvl upgrades are no different then gating dailies behind dailies or including a secondary skill like cloud serpent riding that's per-character. Or, for that matter, point caps and dailies with no tabards or turnins. It's about artificially setting the goal posts another 20 yards forward and then spacing out how many downs it takes to get there. It's all about making you come back and play every day.
    Knowledge is power, and power corrupts. So study hard and be evil.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kekkeri View Post
    while it may definitely be tougher on people new to pvp, i've never had trouble in BGs in honor gear vs people fully decked out in arena gear.

    When I get killed in a 1v1 or whatever in a bg, it's because I got outplayed, and when I kill people it's because I outplay them.

    Sure there might be some slight edge from gear, but not enough to make a systematic difference imo.

    (though I do find the change really annoying)
    You would be surprised how much of a difference 5% more damage, 5% less damage taken, and 5% more healing taken makes.

  8. #8
    I like this change now I can start using my exces CP

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by GiHa View Post
    Why is this being implemented?
    To help lengthen activity in organized PvP, and give PvP an additional level of gear improvement.

    This just separates hardcore and casual players yet again, i thought wow was moving towards Battlegrounds being balanced gear wise ( minus t2 weps) with the removal of arena rating gear.
    No it doesn't. Casual players can upgrade their honor gear and eventually upgrade their conquest gear. It's no different than casual players getting honor gear and eventually getting conquest gear, while hardcore get their conquest at a much higher rate. Random battlegrounds will never be balanced when you can have people in all quest greens queue up and go AFK for free honor. The 40% natural player defense in PvP was Blizzard's way of helping close the massive gear disaprity between a fresh 90 and someone that's been grinding gear for the entire season.

    Adding a system to upgrade stats, makes a larger gap between those who start pvping and those in full pvp gear with fully upgraded stats.
    Which puts people off pvping when then get completely stomped on because of gear.
    It never stopped it before. The 40% passive damage reduction closes that gap far more than anything previously.

    IMO in a perfect world blizz should take advice from GW2 PvP.
    Im not a big fan of GW2 but the idea they had about PvP gear was brilliant.
    The problem with GW2 for the majority of WoW-style pvp players is the complete lack of gear progression in pvp. That's a massive draw for a lot of people. If you don't like it, then perhaps you should be the one leaving for something that better suits your taste.

    Everyone goes in with the same stats, so the pvp is not about "Oh look i have a full set of gear and a t2 wep, i automatically win this fight"
    the reward for playing alot of pvp in gw2 was better looking gear but no stat upgrades.
    There's also a lot fewer people playing SPvP in GW2 because it has no character progression. A lot of people like to get more powerful with time spent. It's pretty clear those types of individuals outnumber the people that want homoginization across the board in regards to gear.

    Is is not ridiculous that good players should get stat upgrades anyway? If you already have a skill advantage of being a better player why should the game then reward you with a damage/defensive increase?
    To reward the player for time spent. WoW has *always* been about gear upgrades. Why do you think they would suddenly change the entire model of their game because fewer people like a different progression method?

    -Back on topic. Adding item upgrades with conq/honor means you never really finish a set of gear and that really annoys me, the main reason i dont PVE is because the whole things seems like a pointless gear grind that never ever ends, where you're not really there to enjoy yourself just get gear to increase your Epeen.
    I like the fact that i can actually finish gear and just enjoy battelgrounds, not thinking "how much honor do i need for my upgrade".
    There's an end to upgrades too. Pay attention to the details and you'll see there's a limit to how many times a piece can be upgraded.

    IMO stat upgrades are a horrible idea, seems another thing i will just have to deal with.
    It's painfully clear you're playing the WRONG MMO if you don't like gear progression.

    Anyone Like/dislike this being implemented i would like to know where the pvp community stands on it
    I'm 100% for it. I think it's a great idea to help extend interest longer into the season instead of having people gear up ASAP and quit.

  10. #10
    What upsets me is I don't raid. SO I'm building up VP from dailies. I was looking forward to this to use my VP to upgrade pvp gear. Oh yeah..it's blizzard...they dont care if pvpers get useless currency.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    What upsets me is I don't raid. SO I'm building up VP from dailies. I was looking forward to this to use my VP to upgrade pvp gear. Oh yeah..it's blizzard...they dont care if pvpers get useless currency.
    Don't worry, you only get 25 VP per raid boss anyway.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sojou View Post
    The problem with GW2 for the majority of WoW-style pvp players is the complete lack of gear progression in pvp. That's a massive draw for a lot of people. If you don't like it, then perhaps you should be the one leaving for something that better suits your taste.


    It's painfully clear you're playing the WRONG MMO if you don't like gear progression.
    I love the game, love the combat.
    Just hate how gear orientated the game is
    WoW is the Call of Duty of MMOs, everything you do needs a pat on the back and a kiss from mommy, it seems people play for epeen and upgrades and Not for the the actual enjoyment of the game.

    I completely understand thats the best method for a MMO to keep customers paying the monthly subscription, im not saying in this post we should scrap the model that is obviously working, im just voicing my views on the state of the game.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by GiHa View Post
    WoW is the Call of Duty of MMOs, everything you do needs a pat on the back and a kiss from mommy, it seems people play for epeen and upgrades and Not for the the actual enjoyment of the game.
    Disagree. Everything you do rewards you for investing your time into something. That's not a "pat on the back kiss from mommy" mentality, that's simply rewarding the player for participating in something they enjoy doing.

    I completely understand thats the best method for a MMO to keep customers paying the monthly subscription, im not saying in this post we should scrap the model that is obviously working, im just voicing my views on the state of the game.
    But this state of the game has been here for over 7 years. I don't understand why it's suddenly a big issue - now that they're finally adding to the pvp experience, since it's such a linear progression of gear versus the more random gear progression found in PvE.

  14. #14
    edit - i should have read the entire post first. lol.

    no i dont care at all.. personally. i can see why you would find that upsetting though..i guess.
    Last edited by Lulbalance; 2012-11-02 at 02:13 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by GiHa View Post
    Why is this being implemented?

    This just separates hardcore and casual players yet again, i thought wow was moving towards Battlegrounds being balanced gear wise ( minus t2 weps)
    with the removal of arena rating gear.

    Adding a system to upgrade stats, makes a larger gap between those who start pvping and those in full pvp gear with fully upgraded stats.
    Which puts people off pvping when then get completely stomped on because of gear.

    IMO in a perfect world blizz should take advice from GW2 PvP.
    Im not a big fan of GW2 but the idea they had about PvP gear was brilliant.

    Everyone goes in with the same stats, so the pvp is not about "Oh look i have a full set of gear and a t2 wep, i automatically win this fight"
    the reward for playing alot of pvp in gw2 was better looking gear but no stat upgrades.
    Is is not ridiculous that good players should get stat upgrades anyway? If you already have a skill advantage of being a better player why should the game then reward you with a damage/defensive increase?

    -Back on topic. Adding item upgrades with conq/honor means you never really finish a set of gear and that really annoys me, the main reason i dont PVE is because the whole things seems like a pointless gear grind that never ever ends, where you're not really there to enjoy yourself just get gear to increase your Epeen.
    I like the fact that i can actually finish gear and just enjoy battelgrounds, not thinking "how much honor do i need for my upgrade".

    IMO stat upgrades are a horrible idea, seems another thing i will just have to deal with.



    Anyone Like/dislike this being implemented i would like to know where the pvp community stands on it


    Sorry for the rant i kinda got way off topic there.
    There are ppl atm that they are already full Malevolent gear and T2 weapon.These ppl deserved that gear and they deserve now to pwn ppl that are lower geared with huge dmg, this is something all MMOs have and SHOULD have, i cant understand why u ppl disagree with this upgrade system, u want another season? fair enough but if som1 has 3k rating he should be proud for this and well known for this. How u gonna reward such a player when its matter of time to get full malevolent or there is a boss that drops malevolent pieces from every 0 rating guy outhere? His 3k rating as i mentioned it will be for nothing in several weeks BUT as soon as u are full Malevolent too then he will be fully upgraded and as i said,with same skills ofc, he will kill u,in arena,in bg,anywhere. As far the "better players doesnt need better gear since they are already really good", its totally stupid, u gonna beat som1 whos is pvping before u even hear wow and win cause u have same gear and a counter-class? NO u will suffer...And u will keep suffer from him as it should be

  16. #16
    Blademaster Zagan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    43
    Quote Originally Posted by akon View Post
    There are ppl atm that they are already full Malevolent gear and T2 weapon.These ppl deserved that gear and they deserve now to pwn ppl that are lower geared with huge dmg, this is something all MMOs have and SHOULD have, i cant understand why u ppl disagree with this upgrade system, u want another season? fair enough but if som1 has 3k rating he should be proud for this and well known for this. How u gonna reward such a player when its matter of time to get full malevolent or there is a boss that drops malevolent pieces from every 0 rating guy outhere? His 3k rating as i mentioned it will be for nothing in several weeks BUT as soon as u are full Malevolent too then he will be fully upgraded and as i said,with same skills ofc, he will kill u,in arena,in bg,anywhere. As far the "better players doesnt need better gear since they are already really good", its totally stupid, u gonna beat som1 whos is pvping before u even hear wow and win cause u have same gear and a counter-class? NO u will suffer...And u will keep suffer from him as it should be
    Armory link for the person in full malevolent with t2 weap?
    Signature by Holycrush

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Zagan View Post
    Armory link for the person in full malevolent with t2 weap?
    I'm sure it was a mistake. Looking at armory links for various high profile players and you'll see the armoy shows all purples, even though they're still wearing blue honor gear. It does make it confusing if you're looking quickly at a profile and not paying attention to the names.

  18. #18
    PvP shouldn't be about gear at all. Everyone should have equal stats. But that doesn't really matter when this game isn't balanced.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    PvP shouldn't be about gear at all. Everyone should have equal stats. But that doesn't really matter when this game isn't balanced.
    There just so happens to be other games that are like that. Perhaps you should play those instead.

    We are many many many people playing WoW who enjoy the gear progression, be it through pvp or pve (in my case both).
    It has been the core of WoW gameplay since it came out basically. You put in effort/time, you become stronger as a result.
    You are honestly kidding yourself if you think that will ever disappear from WoW. We don't want it to, and blizzard don't want it to.
    Sitting around feeling bitter and miserable that it continues to be like this will get you nowhere. It will likely be better for you to accept this is how it is, and then either roll with it or move on.

    On topic, I think this is a great change. I happily welcome the chance to climb slightly higher up that gear progression ladder every tier/season.
    Since I gear up in all fields of the game, the spread of currency benefits me as well. I cannot fathom why people would be so worked up over this.
    There are plenty of other ways for people to become stronger in the game already, why would an exstra one suddenly be especially agonizing?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Driahtvacahtve View Post
    There just so happens to be other games that are like that. Perhaps you should play those instead.
    Why comment this, Gearing is 10% of the game. No one is going to quit over gearing and no one here is saying the game is bad just a few people dislike how gear works in wow.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •