1. #1

    Shadow Trinket Question

    I have a question about shadow DPS. Suppose we live in a perfect world in which you could have any piece of loot, would a shadow prefer a trinket with passive intellect and a bonus haste/crit effect or a trinket with passive haste/crit and a bonus intellect effect? I know all the guides say Int > secondary stats but would lining up intellect effects be good for burst or would the extra haste/crit be better?

  2. #2
    Field Marshal Ragetacular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanityking View Post
    I have a question about shadow DPS. Suppose we live in a perfect world in which you could have any piece of loot, would a shadow prefer a trinket with passive intellect and a bonus haste/crit effect or a trinket with passive haste/crit and a bonus intellect effect? I know all the guides say Int > secondary stats but would lining up intellect effects be good for burst or would the extra haste/crit be better?

    Heroic Essence and Heroic LoC

  3. #3
    Dreadlord myhv's Avatar
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    In a perfect world it would not matter, since it would even out regardless, especially considering us not having any proper cooldown to use with that proc. In the real worlds it's what Ragetacular said.
    Ashes to ashes, fade and rust, your mind be broken, your body to dust

  4. #4
    I'm not curious about which trinket is BiS atm, I'm curious about how passive intellect vs passive haste/crit would turn out.

  5. #5
    Field Marshal Ragetacular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanityking View Post
    I'm not curious about which trinket is BiS atm, I'm curious about how passive intellect vs passive haste/crit would turn out.
    Depends on how much intellect would be given up and where your haste levels are currently.

    In your scenario it wouldnt work because in an ideal world everything would be at optimal levels.

  6. #6
    Dreadlord myhv's Avatar
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    Well, be specific then! How much of each? What's the rest of the gear is like? What are you trading for it? What are the fight mechanics?

    WoW is not a game where you can just say "it's always better this way lol", everything depends on the circumstances. if it's 100 int proc and 100 haste static versus 100 haste proc and 100 int static, the latter one is a clear winner, but that's only cause it was flawed from the start. If you want a 100 int static and a 100 average haste proc vs 100 static haste and 100 average int proc then in a perfect world, it would not make any difference at all.

    If we go in to a real world, it would depend a lot on your current stats overall a a bit on boss mechanics. Like on elegon or wind lord int proc will be of better value than haste, but on most other fight you'll value static int more. This is why people do reforge plots in simcraft, to get the actual values for the stats, since they fluctuate all the time.

    So there is no "magical always right perfect world" answer to your question. It all depends. This is why people spend so much time siming, testing, mathing and debating all this things. This is why you simply cannot have a thought experiment of this sort and give a legitimate generalization like that.
    Ashes to ashes, fade and rust, your mind be broken, your body to dust

  7. #7
    Geez okay lol The perfect world bit was only to symbolize that you can have any trinket you want, I'm not a shadow priest, I play disc, but because my mana regen is so retarded right now, I stack crit/haste and I only have 6k spirit so I thought I could just have a shadow spec as well since the itemization isn't so far off. New question... suppose you already have the 8085 haste, would it be better to switch to a static haste trinket with an int proc and then switch some haste gems into int or would it be better to have a static int trinket and have haste gems to get to the 8085 break point. What it boils down to is the proc/use, which proc/use would be better, haste PAST the 8085 break point or int? For example, if you could, would you use two essences of terror or two light of the cosmos?
    Last edited by vanityking; 2013-01-12 at 11:00 PM.

  8. #8
    I would much rather have static haste, with an int proc because it lets me stat around haste caps better.

  9. #9
    Dreadlord myhv's Avatar
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    OK so firstly here's a link to PP values for all the current trinkets. And from there you start calculating. The PP values are at the top of the post and are normalized, but are based upon you staying above the haste soft cap via gemming/reforging (as opposed to the notion of not being able to get to the cap if you drop LoC).

    When it comes to gemming, if I recall correctly it was wort to loose up to 500 int to get to the 8k haste cap, but you want to be maximizing your int gains and socket bonuses otherwise.

    Can't really give a more conclusive answer without knowing what trinkets you mean exactly and seeing your shadow gear. If you're going to use your current disc gear, I can say you'll have a hard time hitting that haste cap without going way more haste heavy for disc, your current 4k will hold you down.
    Ashes to ashes, fade and rust, your mind be broken, your body to dust

  10. #10
    It completely depends upon the relative stat values on each trinket. Honestly, this question makes no sense and the answer is irrelevant.

  11. #11
    I have 4k haste and 7k crit, I'm sure my hps won't go too far down, if at all, if I flip flop the values.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...as/Gaia/simple
    I just need trinkets xD
    But that link was nice, thanks for your answers everyone.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by vanityking View Post
    I have 4k haste and 7k crit, I'm sure my hps won't go too far down, if at all, if I flip flop the values.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...as/Gaia/simple
    I just need trinkets xD
    But that link was nice, thanks for your answers everyone.
    Mastery is the best stat for both healing specs, you should read some priest guides on how to reforge and gem like

    http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1837#stats

  13. #13
    Dreadlord myhv's Avatar
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    Technically it is, but considering he just started heroic bosses it's not that important for him to go mastery. It also takes a lot of time to adjust, especially after playing crit spec for so long. You can do fine as crit disc, especially if you're having DPS problems, since with 4 set you can do average for 30-40k DPS on a fight. Yes, in a pure HPS comparison mastery significantly pulls ahead, but you need an actually challenging fight for that to occur, and since vanity said he's not running out of mana with only 6k spirit, that means he have not actually done a really healing intensive fight.
    Ashes to ashes, fade and rust, your mind be broken, your body to dust

  14. #14
    My 25man run has like 4 paladins who heal extremely well, I'm just for support healing, and I still top just using Atonement, I may not know the first thing about shadow, but I have disc down lol.

  15. #15
    What you are basically asking, is what trinket is better; Light of cosmos vs Essence of Terror.

    Light of Cosmos is better.

  16. #16
    If I understand your question correctly. I generally prefer static haste with int procs. or static int with a crit proc. Generally changing haste can be a real pita.

    That said my favourite trinket type would be static int with a stacking secondary proc, such as that baleroc trinket.
    Or even better... illustration of the dragonsoul, if that ever updated I'd be ecstatic.

    As I was typing I then remembered the 'damage proc' type trinkets, which I'm also rather fond of. Reign of the unliving / cunning of the cruel.




    No idea if that's actually what you were asking or if you just wanted to know what this tiers BiS trinkets are.
    Redsparowe#2548 <Crayola Inc>, Lightbringer EU

  17. #17
    In an un-ideal world from a loot perspective I find it best to compromise with your guilds lock/mage and arrange for trinkets to be split. He gets Essence of Terror I get Light of Cosmos. Increases your raid dps if people get the items best for their spec rather than just any upgrade they can grab. Such as I pass mastery loot to him and he passes haste loot to me.

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