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  1. #1

    ret is balanced and this is bad

    The problem with ret from my point of view is that other classes just AREN'T balanced and being really the only complete class atm is making us very weak. Other classes have so many gimmicks it makes them viable for so many more things. I like the idea of a balanced game not a balanced class. We are kinda right in the middle of everything from dmg to survivability to utility. I know its nice to have different classes able to do more things and different things but not to the point when there are glaring advantages to it. I feel like I am a jack of all trades, literally, we are built around healing tanking and dpsing, making it so we dont feel like we can really wreck !@#$ any longer. I have been playing this pally since like wrath I think and I just feel that we are far too plain jane atm. Spell effects and bubbles only carry you so far. I love my burst, but I would trade it in a heartbeat for sustainability. I love my utility but I would trade it in a heartbeat for an advantage in the setup against something besides warriors and rogues. Sorry warriors I smash you. I dont want to trade dmg for healing or healing for dmg I want to be treated like other classes, keep prot in prot spec, keep ret in ret, and keep holy in holy spec. Our skills are strong but only carry us so far into a fight, once our gimmicks are over everyone seems to have everything under control while our badass skills which are meant for different specs go unused. I am tired of being the jack of all trades. I love ret, but I want to be RET, not a useless jack of all trades. And if you cant balance the other classes then we being a perfectly balanced class(or pretty damn close) seem like we are at a disadvantage. I am not saying buff ret. I am saying if you give me the choice to dps then make my dps viable. If you give me a chance to heal then make me a healer. If you are going to make me a tank then make it so I can stay alive.(really dont have any problems with prot atm actually just saying lol) This is just my point of view on this. I am not gonna quit wow but its really making it not very epic being mediocre at everything.

  2. #2
    being mediocre at everything.
    Welcome to playing a hybrid.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  3. #3
    I am not mad at being a hybrid I embrace that. What I want is some druid awesomeness. I play a druid and don't run into any of the same problems. The tank is crazy strong, the dps is eh, the heals are bomb, and the caster dps is legit. I mean cmon its not a freaking hybrid problem, its a too balanced problem.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Begrudge View Post
    I am not mad at being a hybrid I embrace that. What I want is some druid awesomeness. I play a druid and don't run into any of the same problems. The tank is crazy strong, the dps is eh, the heals are bomb, and the caster dps is legit. I mean cmon its not a freaking hybrid problem, its a too balanced problem.
    Ever since Vanilla, Blizzard has been committed to making Paladins the most mind-numbingly boring class imaginable. Their philosophy is for Paladins to be extremely straightforward, which is why nothing complex or interesting is ever given to them. Paladins can never dream of getting anything multidimensional like symbiosis, spellsteal, dark simulacrum, or anything that doesn't do X healing, X damage, reduce damage by X amount, simple CC, and so forth. In fact Blizzard representatives have openly stated in the past that in WoW Paladins are meant to be a simple class for beginners. While much has changed, and there are no longer simple classes for beginners, leveling specs, solo specs, and similar nonsense, their philosophy remains the same. Paladins NEVER get anything complex, shiny animations maybe, but complex never. Thus Paladins, and Ret in particular, remain pathetically predictable and easy to counter.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-22 at 09:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Begrudge View Post
    I am not mad at being a hybrid I embrace that. What I want is some druid awesomeness. I play a druid and don't run into any of the same problems. The tank is crazy strong, the dps is eh, the heals are bomb, and the caster dps is legit. I mean cmon its not a freaking hybrid problem, its a too balanced problem.
    Druids are supposed to be complex and versatile according to Blizzard. On the other hand Blizzard's vision of Paladins is more or less: "Me Paladin, me smash or me heal, me hit over-rated ability on long cooldown every few minutes."
    Last edited by Tangra; 2013-01-22 at 09:11 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangra View Post
    Ever since Vanilla, Blizzard has been committed to making Paladins the most mind-numbingly boring class imaginable. Their philosophy is for Paladins to be extremely straightforward, which is why nothing complex or interesting is ever given to them. Paladins can never dream of getting anything multidimensional like symbiosis, spellsteal, dark simulacrum, or anything that doesn't do X healing, X damage, reduce damage by X amount, simple CC, and so forth. In fact Blizzard representatives have openly stated in the past that in WoW Paladins are meant to be a simple class for beginners. While much has changed, and there are no longer simple classes for beginners, leveling specs, solo specs, and similar nonsense, their philosophy remains the same. Paladins NEVER get anything complex, shiny animations maybe, but complex never. Thus Paladins, and Ret in particular, remain pathetically predictable and easy to counter.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-22 at 09:03 PM ----------



    Druids are supposed to be complex and versatile according to Blizzard. On the other hand Blizzard's vision of Paladins is more or less: "Me Paladin, me smash or me heal, me hit over-rated ability on long cooldown every few minutes."
    Ret paladins are currently 100x more "complex" than Warriors right now. If any class is for beginners it is Warriors. Macro everything to one button, sit in defensive stance and faceroll to 2200.

  6. #6
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    Welcome to playing a hybrid.
    Nope. Paladin tanks are widely regarded as the best in PvE currently, and Holy is set to be the best PvP healing spec in 5.2 with all of its counters (Blood Fear/Frost Bomb nuke, etc) essentially removed.

    Ret however is both CD and burst dependent, with mediocre and high cost heals to boot. 50%+ healing from Flash Heal is a small consolation in 5.2 but I wouldn't expect anything good.

    As to the old 'hybrids being mediocre' canard, Druids are rocking in every spec at the moment.
    "If I owned a company, my employees would love me. They’d have huge pictures of me up the walls and in their home, like Lenin." - George Costanza

  7. #7
    i hate this cause my dps is worst in the raid nearly and im like top geared

  8. #8
    Brewmaster Banzhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Begrudge View Post
    I am not mad at being a hybrid I embrace that. What I want is some druid awesomeness. I play a druid and don't run into any of the same problems. The tank is crazy strong, the dps is eh, the heals are bomb, and the caster dps is legit. I mean cmon its not a freaking hybrid problem, its a too balanced problem.
    Isn't that kinda of an issue to be raised with blizzard?- I can only attribute it to every single whiny child posting on individual classes, about how XY and Z role is OP, and that they need OPR and S ability from said classes, or a NERFPLS INB4 WOW DIES LOL walnut Iq.

    Everything in the game have become to streamlined because people cry the ears of a shrink every single day!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    Nope. Paladin tanks are widely regarded as the best in PvE currently, and Holy is set to be the best PvP healing spec in 5.2 with all of its counters (Blood Fear/Frost Bomb nuke, etc) essentially removed.

    Ret however is both CD and burst dependent, with mediocre and high cost heals to boot. 50%+ healing from Flash Heal is a small consolation in 5.2 but I wouldn't expect anything good.

    As to the old 'hybrids being mediocre' canard, Druids are rocking in every spec at the moment.
    Feral would like a word with you (PvE-wise anyway), it's among the weakest as the scaling is stupid and only seems okay'ish at low / medium gear levels, but I guess with 4 specs, something's gotta give..
    Last edited by Banzhe; 2013-01-23 at 04:17 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Crawdaddy View Post
    i hate this cause my dps is worst in the raid nearly and im like top geared
    Hint hint, its not the class or the gear.
    our ret does quite well as in top dps with top gear

  10. #10
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crawdaddy View Post
    i hate this cause my dps is worst in the raid nearly and im like top geared
    I usually come out near the top in PvE. Odd.

    In PvP ret is a nightmare though. Where would I begin? Changing Glyph of Inquisition. Why should we sacrifice 15% DPS for a longer duration when Feral Druids get 12 secs of Savage Roar for free with no sacrifices? I would either pump the duration of Inquisition up to at least 35/40 secs and/or reduce the Holy Power cost. Savage Roar goes over 40 secs with 5 combo points (and combo points are much easier to generate than Holy power given the fact that every goddamn Paladin spell has a CD), and Slice and Dice goes up to about ~36 secs (again, with combo points) and is instant-refreshed with Envenom in Assassination, one of the most common specs atm.

    Glyph of Inquisition: Resets the duration of Inquisition to its full duration upon killing an enemy that awards exp/honour?
    "If I owned a company, my employees would love me. They’d have huge pictures of me up the walls and in their home, like Lenin." - George Costanza

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    Ret paladins are currently 100x more "complex" than Warriors right now. If any class is for beginners it is Warriors. Macro everything to one button, sit in defensive stance and faceroll to 2200.
    Yay for 2200 going bye-bye.
    If you chose rock as a weapon, in order to beat a pair of scissors, don't start whining when you get pwn'd by a piece of paper.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    Welcome to playing a hybrid.
    Warriors are hybrids Dks , Monks , Priests , druids
    so there should be Also medicore at everything
    duhhhhh , This aint an answer More then a question to my self

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Matrlx View Post
    Warriors are hybrids Dks , Monks , Priests , druids
    so there should be Also medicore at everything
    duhhhhh , This aint an answer More then a question to my self
    I don't think you know what hybrid means.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    I don't think you know what hybrid means.
    Non pure dps which they are.
    It's just generally only classes with access to all 3 roles (druids, paladins and now monk) have been popularly called hybrids.

  15. #15
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    I don't think you know what hybrid means.
    No, he's right. "Hybrid" is any class that can perform more than one role (tanking, healing, DPS) across all of it's specializations. At least, that's how the term is applied 'officially' by Blizzard.
    Last edited by Malthanis; 2013-01-23 at 01:43 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    Glyph of Inquisition: Resets the duration of Inquisition to its full duration upon killing an enemy that awards exp/honour?
    Like it. It's at least lots better than a dps decreasing glyph noone in his right mind would take. I think what we lack is gameplay flavour. I mean, we have several dps abilities on lowish cooldowns, and that's our 'thing', which is ok. FCFS still in a way. But the days when bubble used to be our signature ability are over, its duration too short, its cooldown too long. It's a second pvp trinket on a 5min cd I'm embarrassed to use a lot of the time because it's cheesy somehow. GOOD design is AMS for example. Medium cooldown (45sec I believe), not reactive (so you can actually show some skill, predict fears/deathcoils etc and pop it preventive) with a short duration.

    Take Long arm of the law for example. Most of the players take it but it's a boring mini-sprint. The name has so much potential! I mean we have deathgrip, we have friendly fire deathgrip..why not make it reverse deathgrip in the sense that you grip onto a friendly/enemy target and pull yourself towards it, animated with a golden fist pulling you across the distance. Just make it exciting. Don't get me started on holy prism. I hope they fired the intern that shat out that animation.

    Then we have seals, another paladin 'signature' mechanic. Bring back designated judgement effects: Truth damages, Righteousness spreads the phys. vulnerability debuff and/or makes your next divine storm free. Insight makes your next wog have 50% increased crit if used on yourself (uhhh, we would actually have a way of going defensive, god forbid).

    And obviously, make judgement of justice slow rendering burden of guilt irrelevant. New tier 2 talent: Same name or 'Chains of guilt' Roots your target in place for 2 seconds for each holy power spend, finisher, 20y, instant cast. Physical debuff, no cooldown, DR's with itself and basic root DR. Maaayyybeee casting it with 3 holy power also silences the target for 4 seconds. Well, you can tell, I'm getting greedy.

    Selfless healer now baseline for retribution. Replacing talent: Eye for an eye, passive effect, pops at 35% hp, reflecting 50% of dmg received for 5 seconds, 1min ICD. I know right? Useable for all specs!

    God blizz, it's seriously not that hard.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    No, he's right. "Hybrid" is any class that can perform more than one role (tanking, healing, DPS) across all of it's specializations. At least, that's how the term is applied 'officially' by Blizzard.
    Hybrid means doing two or more different things at the same time.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Non pure dps which they are.
    It's just generally only classes with access to all 3 roles (druids, paladins and now monk) have been popularly called hybrids.
    Warrios are hybrids coz they Tank and have a 2nd roll
    Dks Also have 3 Spec 2 dps 1 tank wich is also a hybrid class even my dk friend Admit that he's a hybrid
    Pure Dps Are hunters , mages , warlocks , Rogues
    the Question that i was asking my self why would Ret suffer more from this hybrid Mechanics and Warriors and dks feel satisfied and they can top the Dps meters
    Even i would love to see Malthanis opinion about the hybrid comparison between these melee hybrid classes and why would Ret suffer the most ?

  19. #19
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    I don't think you know what hybrid means.
    You are the one confused.

    There have been plenty of times where hybrids have been top dps and of course only hybrids fill Tank and Healing roles.

    Any class that can perform more than 1 role is a hybrid.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Thyr View Post
    Hybrid means doing two or more different things at the same time.
    Wrong. Warriors are hybrids. There are two things in the game, pure and hybrid. If not, tell me what you classify warrior as.

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