A question regarding Retribution

[Lucetia]

Taken directly from EJ

Immediate Truth and Inquisition are significant DPS losses. IT is a loss after approx 5 (yes, five) seconds of combat.

Doesn't tell what the exact amount of DPS loss is, but it's 15% of any of our Holy damage (includes our mastery).

I'll rerun with the change to player playstyle little bit later today and see what it comes up with. I chose the fight style HelterSkelter as it's part Patch part movement since there really is no "Patchwerk" style fight's for the most part.

I'll do some more research on the Inquisition glyph, but as I mentioned I use it mainly for solo'ing and swap it out when in a raid. Though people look at it and see it as a 15% loss of Holy Damage (It's unaffected by Mastery at all so not sure where you got that), but at the same time you gain ~2-5 (pending on fight length) TV's when using the Inquisition glyph.

[Serani]

Inq increases holy damage by 30%. Mastery (Hand of Light) is pure holy damage, thus the glyph decreases the damage of our Mastery, which would, likely, decrease the value of it for sims etc. Also, our TV hits like a wet noodle, so the gain of a few TVs isn't a rather huge increase in DPS, vs 15% of almost everything else.

[Deleted]

Also, our TV hits like a wet noodle

You must be thinking about HotR/Divine Storm, right ?

[Serani]

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/dsubv...?s=4763&e=5414

Log from our guilds Heroic WotE kill, so I had an extra 25% melee damage. It's AVG damage not being much higher than HoW, with an extra 25% of damage, which HoW does NOT benefit from, really goes to show how weak it really hits for. Not that I'm saying don't use it, but the value of a few individual TVs vs 15% holy damage is going to be a large gap.

[Lucetia]

Inq increases holy damage by 30%. Mastery (Hand of Light) is pure holy damage, thus the glyph decreases the damage of our Mastery, which would, likely, decrease the value of it for sims etc. Also, our TV hits like a wet noodle, so the gain of a few TVs isn't a rather huge increase in DPS, vs 15% of almost everything else.

Inquisition increases holy damage. Mastery increases the % amount of Crusader Strike, Templar's Verdict, Divine Storm and one other (can't remember off the top of my head) that each of those attacks do and converts that % to Holy Damage. The Glyph of Inquisition does not change at all the amount of damage of Mastery. As Mastery is a set amount, what is Inquisition does is then modify that amount by a % based on the modifier of Inquisition. However, the way you are explaining it is that the two are directly modified by one another and that isn't the case.

With all that said I did run the simulation again and swapped out the Inquisition glyph for Word of Glory as a test to see the difference. Even though my stat weights with up slightly it was still not enough to come to the distinction that Haste gemming > Strength at all and this is where my problem lies. Why are other's suggesting this is how their sim goes when mine isn't showing that. I used the Elite Player Skill (Tried it at average then the one above and then this and they went up slightly each time).

STR: 2.67
HIT: 3.02
EXP: 1.86
HASTE: 1.12 (2.24 w/2x gem)
CRIT: 0.96 (1.92 w/2x gem)
MAST: 0.81 (1.62 w/2x gem)

Not really sure what much more I could do to change these settings, I'll run a patchwerk one in a second to see if there's a major difference, but I tried with pretty much every setting and nothing. Even the reforge chart is showing Strength -> Haste = DPS Loss and Haste -> Strength = DPS Gain. Only thing I don't like about the Patchwerk sim and why I find it inaccurate is that there are basically no fights that are like that and the HelterSkelter is a better idea for most fights.

Ok, did a Patchwerk fight and got the following results:

STR: 3.06
HIT: 3.49
EXP: 2.17
HASTE: 1.42 (2.84 w/2x gem)
CRIT: 1.07 (2.14 w/2x gem)
MAST: 1.05 (2.10 w/2x gem)

On this one the stat weights went higher and the gap between the two went closer, but still Strength wins. Also, my question is exactly what advantage is there to use the Patchwerk sim versus HelterSkelter when there are no Patchwerk style fights?

[Serani]

I just sat on dummies testing out glyphed Inq vs norm Inq, and while it's not nearly in depth as I could go, here are the results

NO glyph Inq:
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f...psb4904f78.png

Glyphed Inq:
http://s242.beta.photobucket.com/use...tml?sort=3&o=2

I realize it was only 1 test of each, and due to the nature of RNG (crits mostly) it's not exactly 100%, however, HoL damage was vastly affected, avg, top and total were all negatively impacted by the Glyph.

Each 'test' was done for a full 5 minutes on each boss, including the ramp down time of SoT wearing off.

-------------------------

As for your stat weights, if money is not an issue for you, perhaps try swapping your gems for haste and rerun the sim? I'm honestly not too sure how true it holds now, but my brother informs me that for Spriests, haste was a stat that the more you had of it, the more valuable it became? I'm not quite sure if I'm explaining it correctly, but if you've got a few hundred gold spare, you could attempt this and see how the shift of stats affect you.

Also, you're a full 1% over exp, you might want to look at that

[Lucetia]

As for your stat weights, if money is not an issue for you, perhaps try swapping your gems for haste and rerun the sim? I'm honestly not too sure how true it holds now, but my brother informs me that for Spriests, haste was a stat that the more you had of it, the more valuable it became? I'm not quite sure if I'm explaining it correctly, but if you've got a few hundred gold spare, you could attempt this and see how the shift of stats affect you.

Also, you're a full 1% over exp, you might want to look at that

Unfortunately the 1% exp is out of my control as it's on the gear I have and every piece has it reforged out. Needing another trinket/weapon and that would alleviate that much. Money/gems isn't an issue since I have a miner/alch and JC so it won't take me long to get the gems. I did run the reforge plots on the sim so it reforges automatically out of my strength gem amounts and puts it into strength and it was still coming up at a loss.

I know certain gear levels it can skew the results. If I can ever get a weapon to drop I'm hoping that'll change the weights more, but hard to tell. Might screw around with chardev and do some gear swaps and stuff and rerun it a few times and see if the results change.

[Serani]

Your second ring, Seal of the Bloodseeker has exp that hasn't been reforged off, which won't bring you down the whole way, but it would be a start. That's without running wowreforge or reforgelite, of course. As for your stat issues, I honestly don't know what to tell you as I've seen similar geared paladins move over to haste, even before your current ilvl. That haste to str ratio is very odd for paladins

[Lucetia]

Your second ring, Seal of the Bloodseeker has exp that hasn't been reforged off, which won't bring you down the whole way, but it would be a start. That's without running wowreforge or reforgelite, of course. As for your stat issues, I honestly don't know what to tell you as I've seen similar geared paladins move over to haste, even before your current ilvl. That haste to str ratio is very odd for paladins

I know it's a little old but wanted to post some more information. Finally got the LFR Sha Axe (just need 1 wisdom for the gem).

I swapped all my str gems for haste and the sims went from being within STR being ~0.20 points stronger than haste (when x2'ed) to being ~.50-.60 so for some reason I'm still simming STR being superior to haste.

What exactly would cause my sims to show STR > Haste when others are saying sims are still showing Haste > Str gemming?

[Serani]

What version of simC are you running?

[Lucetia]

What version of simC are you running?

Patch 5.1.0 Release 8 -- simc-510-8

Which is the version prior to the released. Since the newest one deals with PTR changes it didn't seem relevant to run it and test as I'm only need the Live settings.