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  1. #81
    The Lightbringer slime's Avatar
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    Sounds to me like you are blaming motivated players who came up with a workaround to Blizzards shit design and non-caring attitude (oh wait - they care.. they just never do anything about it). I applaud them for purging the bot from their teams environment.

  2. #82
    Blaming, blaming. It is a logical evolution given the way things are.

    Is it effective? Only in their own little world, and only on their team.

    They're not purging the bots. Read the thread. I said they are purging also low geared player ("don't wanna boost the scrub/casual"). That means the casual/scrub is going to meet more bots on average. You need influx of new players in PvP, else it dies. On the other hand, at least you folks play PvP which you may otherwise not enjoy. So we'll have to see how it turns out.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Blaming, blaming. It is a logical evolution given the way things are.

    Is it effective? Only in their own little world, and only on their team.

    They're not purging the bots. Read the thread. I said they are purging also low geared player ("don't wanna boost the scrub/casual"). That means the casual/scrub is going to meet more bots on average. You need influx of new players in PvP, else it dies. On the other hand, at least you folks play PvP which you may otherwise not enjoy. So we'll have to see how it turns out.
    Blaming, seeing a flaw and trying to make it better for ourselves. The goal of this addon is to limit the amount of bots on our team. It succeeds in doing so. I personally play this game to have fun. Not to get pissed at bot players who can't even feel the anger they generate. I'm curious as to how much pvp you do. Feel free to link a screenshot to your pvp screen.

  4. #84
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    I must say this addon has been a great addition for me, the casual pvper (and by casual I mean no arena/few RBGs)

    Finding RBG and random bg groups is easy, although the quality of the leaders varies. Some are more communicative than others - I mean, some leaders never say anything. Got into a RBG group, then the leader just vanished, another bg leader disappeared right in the middle of a game... But overall, I am happy.

    Just one question: am I the only one getting extreme drops in fps with this addon? It doesn't happen when I'm in a bg/dungeon, but my fps goes between 12 and 58, 60, to 11 and so on in a matter of seconds while out in the world. I did read that checking "garbage collect" could help the issue, but it doesn't for me

  5. #85
    The Lightbringer slime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Blaming, blaming. It is a logical evolution given the way things are.

    Is it effective? Only in their own little world, and only on their team.

    They're not purging the bots. Read the thread. I said they are purging also low geared player ("don't wanna boost the scrub/casual"). That means the casual/scrub is going to meet more bots on average. You need influx of new players in PvP, else it dies. On the other hand, at least you folks play PvP which you may otherwise not enjoy. So we'll have to see how it turns out.
    Okay ... your point taken. I did read the post and I paid little mind to this point - but in hindsight, I agree this sucks for the lower geared player because it makes matters worse for them. But what then should players that love pvp in wow and that's all they want to do - grin and bare it? for how long? Until the balance all classes in pvp? HA! If blizzard is allowing it - then they probably see some benefit to it. Again it sucks that some players are getting shafted harder now as some get to be in 'pvp heaven'. But how is that any different than a high end raiding guild not wanting me when I apply if my Ilvl is not high enough, or it is and I just don't play to my potential (dps). There is no win/win situation here (haha short of blizz getting rid of bots) - these folks just had enough of it and took matters into their own hands, good for them. If they made matters worse as you feel, then Blizz will ban this program and this practice and that is that. For now I think they are sitting on it - because very suddenly the cries of crazy rampant botting in BGs has quieted down a bit... and they are shocked - because they didn't even do anything to 'fix' botting in BGs.
    Last edited by slime; 2013-01-19 at 10:57 PM.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuhnai123 View Post
    The addon all those blues are referring to is premadeAV enabler, not OQ
    This is the only guy who know anything about the subject.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    What is the purpose of these premade groups? Can't you win otherwise? Don't say bots. It is just a silly excuse. Premades were rampant before bots were so popular as they are right now. Also, there are times of the day where the chance you run into bots are indeed very high. 4 AM in the night, for example.
    To grind out deadly gear faster for alts or off-specs.

    Quote Originally Posted by slime View Post
    Okay ... your point taken. I did read the post and I paid little mind to this point - but in hindsight, I agree this sucks for the lower geared player because it makes matters worse for them. But what then should players that love pvp in wow and that's all they want to do - grin and bare it? for how long? Until the balance all classes in pvp?
    This addon can help low geared players as well. Instead of being an insignificant factor in a bg, they can join with others and contribute (locking down healers, CC, peals, defending, calling incs, etc...).

    OT:
    Been using the addon for about a week and its pretty amazing. Only thing that annoys me is that I keep having to purge my friends list, since it fills up fast.

  8. #88
    Does anyone remember the add-on similar to this in Vanilla? It was even before cross realm BG's were out. I used it a long time ago. I think Blizzard sent out messages telling people to quit. I never remember a ban about it though.


    Its jusst sad that people would go to this much trouble just to avoid bots and similar things. Class balance is and always will be something people dislike. You need to ssuck that up. Bots on the other hand, and blatant win trading should never be tolerated.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-19 at 08:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Blaming, blaming. It is a logical evolution given the way things are.

    Is it effective? Only in their own little world, and only on their team.

    They're not purging the bots. Read the thread. I said they are purging also low geared player ("don't wanna boost the scrub/casual"). That means the casual/scrub is going to meet more bots on average. You need influx of new players in PvP, else it dies. On the other hand, at least you folks play PvP which you may otherwise not enjoy. So we'll have to see how it turns out.
    Gear is less of an issue than being a scrub. It gets tiring to say stuff like "Help me get our flag back, I can nuke him if I have some help" ... then check the map and of course, no one says a freaking thing and they continue to fight on flags/roads whatever it is...

    What we have lost with LFR/LFD etc is the pressure to preform well, be polite, and cooperate. If you can just ignore people and do whatever you want without the fear of being punished for it, then this is bad. This add-on fixes that problem. It eliminates bots/bads and you shouldn't feel sorry for those people.

    There is a difference between a scrub and a new player/low geared player.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    What we have lost with LFR/LFD etc is the pressure to preform well, be polite, and cooperate. If you can just ignore people and do whatever you want without the fear of being punished for it, then this is bad. This add-on fixes that problem. It eliminates bots/bads and you shouldn't feel sorry for those people.
    The issue is two-fold. Since there is only a very temporary mutual gain the benefit to teach one another is too small. Such is the nature of the x-realm PuG.

    In rated BGs this benefit is bigger. I can see the addon addressing #1 but it is a short cut. That's where #2 kicks in. I read about large premade of 35 IoC, and then hear about vchat, then I don't see why that group wouldn't be able to play against an other organized group unless they want easy wins and lets be honest here that is what the purpose of OP is about; not fair PvP of X amount of humans vs X amount of humans.

    In any ladder system your win/loss ratio would not be 97%. In Rated BG your win rating would not be 97%. In World of Tanks your win rating won't be 97%. In any FPS your win rating won't be 97% and your K:D rating won't be 97:3 (or 24,33:1). SC2? No can do.

    And that is why when I played MtG I did not play against type II players with my more than 2000 EUR worth type I deck. I generally didn't play them at all, but if hell froze over I'd grab one of my experimental decks or my faerie deck (which consisted of a few expensive cards but mostly cheap ones which looked weak). Why? It isn't fun to pwn someone without any competitive factor unless you are so miserable that you need the kick from it (which is self delusion) or you need to grind (unique to some MMORPGs).

    There is a difference between a scrub and a new player/low geared player.
    For the person who admins the OQ groups there is not much difference between a scrub and a new player/low geared player. Output-wise the two will look similar on paper. Which means the new player and low geared player -assuming he knows about OQ and agrees to use it- is being discriminated against. Besides that, the scrub is able to mask their lack of performance with better than average gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by slime View Post
    Okay ... your point taken. I did read the post and I paid little mind to this point - but in hindsight, I agree this sucks for the lower geared player because it makes matters worse for them. But what then should players that love pvp in wow and that's all they want to do - grin and bare it? for how long? Until the balance all classes in pvp? HA! If blizzard is allowing it - then they probably see some benefit to it. Again it sucks that some players are getting shafted harder now as some get to be in 'pvp heaven'. But how is that any different than a high end raiding guild not wanting me when I apply if my Ilvl is not high enough, or it is and I just don't play to my potential (dps). There is no win/win situation here (haha short of blizz getting rid of bots) - these folks just had enough of it and took matters into their own hands, good for them. If they made matters worse as you feel, then Blizz will ban this program and this practice and that is that. For now I think they are sitting on it - because very suddenly the cries of crazy rampant botting in BGs has quieted down a bit... and they are shocked - because they didn't even do anything to 'fix' botting in BGs.
    Well, when I did some BGs on my leveling as well as freshly dinged warlock I was playing mostly in the early night because it fit my schedule and there weren't many real players which quickly made it boring (it also reminded me how grindy it was). I remember vividly the last BG being SotA with the opposing team consisting 100% of bots. I quit. An alternative could've been playing on different time, or maybe indeed an addon like this.

    If you read the various replies to my post it boils down to it makes their experience richer and I understand that, but it is a selfish decision at the expense of the new and low geared player, and serves as a shortcut of the dreaded grind as well as evades competitive play you'd find in rated BG. At least present it like such, and admit you don't want to lose and are optimizing your grind, and don't want competitive play either.

    The reasonable solution is IMO to quit playing random BGs until Blizzard removes the plethora of bots.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  10. #90
    The Lightbringer slime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post

    If you read the various replies to my post it boils down to it makes their experience richer and I understand that, but it is a selfish decision at the expense of the new and low geared player, and serves as a shortcut of the dreaded grind as well as evades competitive play you'd find in rated BG. At least present it like such, and admit you don't want to lose and are optimizing your grind, and don't want competitive play either.

    The reasonable solution is IMO to quit playing random BGs until Blizzard removes the plethora of bots.
    I agree with you 100%. It is a selfish decision, but, imho if you are paying to do something - it's okay to be selfish about it. Not to mention - why go after good players, who just want to play the game they pay for (and luv), when the real problem causers here are the botters. You are attacking the people who use this addon which was created as a direct response to the actual problem - people who abuse the system and BOT.

    They pay to play the game, they have the right to do whatever they can to enjoy it - until blizz steps in and says otherwise.

    Also what I am finding being repeated over and over in this thread is that you exaggerated the situation and even people with bad gear use this addon and luv it. They might not get into pro RBGs, but as I have stated before, they just don't get into heroic progressive raiding either "just because they want to" - you have to be geared and ready for it. There is nothing wrong with a RBG team expecting the same from a player.
    Last edited by slime; 2013-01-20 at 01:34 PM.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by slime View Post
    I agree with you 100%. It is a selfish decision, but, imho if you are paying to do something - it's okay to be selfish about it.
    I suppose that's the rationale behind the visitors of the Thai hooker.

    IOW it explains their action. That itself doesn't mean their rationale is morally valid.

    Suppose those players play WoW and want to continue to play WoW. Is it then in the interest of the community others keep playing as well? So Blizzard is more successful? Or is it better to harm the customer base? It is difficult for new players to become involved in the gameplay instead of being left out. That is why BG exist, kinda like LFD. Once you run your game like an ivory tower it is going to be impossible to draw new blood into the game. This addon turns BG into an ivory tower.

    Not to mention - why go after good players, who just want to play the game they pay for (and luv), when the real problem causers here are the botters. You are attacking the people who use this addon which was created as a direct response to the actual problem - people who abuse the system and BOT.
    I already explained they're two separate issues. While the developers of this addon perhaps had a noble cause, running this addon won't remove the bots; it will only remove (some of) the bots from their team. It actually turns the BG into a PvE zone because the human vs bot ratio changes. The enemy is no longer human players; it is bots. I already explained players are using this addon to faceroll enemies to skip real competitive gameplay, as well as a means to optimize the grind. Besides the addon proving players do not enjoy the grind itself, it also seems to prove players don't like competitive PvP if they can evade it.

    Which leaves me to say if you want to remove bots from WoW there is only one way to remove them: vote with your wallet. Unsub and tell Blizzard you unsubbed because you are tired of the bots. If enough customers do this, they'll get the message.

    They pay to play the game, they have the right to do whatever they can to enjoy it - until blizz steps in and says otherwise.
    ..but are their actions harmful to the game, or will they progress the game? If this addon is going to be massively adopted it is interesting to see Blizzard's response to that, if they can respond to it in a constructive way at all.

    Also what I am finding being repeated over and over in this thread is that you exaggerated the situation and even people with bad gear use this addon and luv it. They might not get into pro RBGs, but as I have stated before, they just don't get into heroic progressive raiding either "just because they want to" - you have to be geared and ready for it. There is nothing wrong with a RBG team expecting the same from a player.
    Rated BG? The bottom of the rated BG ladder is what is being evaded by the addon OQ. Basically, OQ is this unofficial, secret tier between random BG and rated BG but instead of it fighting against its own, it fights against whatever it finds in random BG (almost always teams without voice chat, without as many human players). You do not need much, if any, skill to defeat one or multiple bots. So it boils down to massive bottomfeeding.

    As I said it becomes either more PvE than PvP, or it becomes a way to kill PvP players who aren't included in the OQ gene pool. While many of the players are bots, there's also many M&S as well as new and casual players. What do players do when they get completely devastated in a fight? They feel they can't improve; instead they quit. Which means this addon, on its long term, is destructive. Blizzard must act now and ban the bots (it is one bot in particular which they have a lawsuit running in Germany is I understood it correct).
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  12. #92
    A real-ID friend who doesn't have oQueue let me know that he was seeing an oQ broadcast from me.

    While I love the mod, I don't want any broadcasts going out on my behalf to RealID friends, just the battletag friends that have oQ. So, I've unloaded the addon for now (after removing myself from the mesh), but if an option to not broadcast is in a future version, I'll be back.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    I suppose that's the rationale behind the visitors of the Thai hooker.

    IOW it explains their action. That itself doesn't mean their rationale is morally valid.

    Suppose those players play WoW and want to continue to play WoW. Is it then in the interest of the community others keep playing as well? So Blizzard is more successful? Or is it better to harm the customer base? It is difficult for new players to become involved in the gameplay instead of being left out. That is why BG exist, kinda like LFD. Once you run your game like an ivory tower it is going to be impossible to draw new blood into the game. This addon turns BG into an ivory tower.

    I already explained they're two separate issues. While the developers of this addon perhaps had a noble cause, running this addon won't remove the bots; it will only remove (some of) the bots from their team. It actually turns the BG into a PvE zone because the human vs bot ratio changes. The enemy is no longer human players; it is bots. I already explained players are using this addon to faceroll enemies to skip real competitive gameplay, as well as a means to optimize the grind. Besides the addon proving players do not enjoy the grind itself, it also seems to prove players don't like competitive PvP if they can evade it.

    Which leaves me to say if you want to remove bots from WoW there is only one way to remove them: vote with your wallet. Unsub and tell Blizzard you unsubbed because you are tired of the bots. If enough customers do this, they'll get the message.

    ..but are their actions harmful to the game, or will they progress the game? If this addon is going to be massively adopted it is interesting to see Blizzard's response to that, if they can respond to it in a constructive way at all.

    Rated BG? The bottom of the rated BG ladder is what is being evaded by the addon OQ. Basically, OQ is this unofficial, secret tier between random BG and rated BG but instead of it fighting against its own, it fights against whatever it finds in random BG (almost always teams without voice chat, without as many human players). You do not need much, if any, skill to defeat one or multiple bots. So it boils down to massive bottomfeeding.

    As I said it becomes either more PvE than PvP, or it becomes a way to kill PvP players who aren't included in the OQ gene pool. While many of the players are bots, there's also many M&S as well as new and casual players. What do players do when they get completely devastated in a fight? They feel they can't improve; instead they quit. Which means this addon, on its long term, is destructive. Blizzard must act now and ban the bots (it is one bot in particular which they have a lawsuit running in Germany is I understood it correct).
    You're missing the fact that its not rated. They don't get CP or rating for the gear. Just honor and a small amount of CP. I think you are over exaggerating what they are doing. The bots are the big problem. It sucks losing to a full enemy team just BARELY and you have 2 bots on your team. Anyone is free to use that add-on besides bots. Even bads, even low geared players, even new players.


    I don't think this harms the game at all. Bots are what has ruined this game since forever. At first it was afkavers, now its bots.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I don't think this harms the game at all.
    Agreed. How is this any different than "LFM, gear checking"? No problem with this add-on in the slightest. If they had a multiple guild system like GW2, I'd say it was unneeded. As it is, it lets you find a group of people who want to do the same thing you want to do. Play and be competitive.

  15. #95
    The Lightbringer slime's Avatar
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    lolala - I guess it's reached the point where we should agree to disagree. You visit a hooker for sex - you pay the hooker you get your sex you move on.

    Some people pay Blizzard just to pvp. When they are greeted with armys of bots in pvp it ruins their experience. Blizzard is not delivering what they paid for, and if you think they are - and bots aren't their problem - well now I see our disconnect. I personally want what I pay for, you seem to be okay with sitting on a bad situation until the entity that caused it, fixes it - if they ever do that all. These folks came up with a solution - very morally in the right (imo) - they want what they paid for. And I get your point about just not playing anymore and hitting blizz where it hurts in the wallet - and im sure it will come to that. But the devotion for wow and the enjoyment of wow pvp - the users of this addon are trying everything they can before they reach the ultimate goal of 'i quit!'

    Like I said before, if blizz doesn't like it - it won't be around for much longer - and then all the pvpers that hate bots can be miserable together again, because after all misery does enjoy company.
    Last edited by slime; 2013-01-20 at 09:30 PM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    Agreed. How is this any different than "LFM, gear checking"? No problem with this add-on in the slightest. If they had a multiple guild system like GW2, I'd say it was unneeded. As it is, it lets you find a group of people who want to do the same thing you want to do. Play and be competitive.
    I think if they just fixed the bot problem, this would not be a problem. I had one in the battle for gilneas yesterday, the bot would run straight for water and drown over and over. It was a warrior, with very little damage done and many deaths. I checked the map and watched him while I was guarding WW's... he would run out to around the boats over and over, and die.

    I see the sentiment of some people, it would suck to fight these "premades" ... I do not however give a crap about bads. Bads are normally bad because they choose to be. They normally aren't team players, have bad attitudes etc etc.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  17. #97
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    Fix the bot-problem or allow this. Add it to the game mechanics. May be kind of weird with RBGs, but the bots are really getting on my nerves.
    Inb4 Deal with it, qq etc

  18. #98
    Epic! fengosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slime View Post
    Sounds to me like you are blaming motivated players who came up with a workaround to Blizzards shit design and non-caring attitude (oh wait - they care.. they just never do anything about it). I applaud them for purging the bot from their teams environment.
    I like this quote. It's as if blizzard didn't make real id or crz.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I think if they just fixed the bot problem, this would not be a problem. I had one in the battle for gilneas yesterday, the bot would run straight for water and drown over and over. It was a warrior, with very little damage done and many deaths. I checked the map and watched him while I was guarding WW's... he would run out to around the boats over and over, and die.

    I see the sentiment of some people, it would suck to fight these "premades" ... I do not however give a crap about bads. Bads are normally bad because they choose to be. They normally aren't team players, have bad attitudes etc etc.
    My argument wasn't about bots, it was more about the complaints about fresh 90s or 90s without gear being discriminated against. Big deal. It's done all the time. The bot situation, unfortunately, isn't always just bots. I've had people come into a bg and run around aimlessly for the entirety instead of actually attempting to try. I watched a druid stay in prowl for an entire BG just hanging around WW. I know they're people because they actually chat in-game. I'm not particularly sure how Blizzard can get around this. Force people to type in captchas before joinging a BG or LFG?

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Smileymage View Post
    I downloaded Oque a few days ago, and for those who are curious about the addon, I will describe a few things about it. I don't use the addon for premade random BGs because people mostly use this addon to find Rated BGs. Occasionally there is "lfm for premade random bgs" but its not often. Before using OQue, I mostly just ran a lot of random bgs with the occasional RBG i could find maybe once per week on my small pve server, but now I can run RBGs several times a day with this addon. Love it!
    And for those who are knocking it because they assume people use it to cheat the random bg system (by making premades), just know that random bg groups aren't as popular as RBGs in this addon. You can make a premade for a random BG with this addon, but since you can only group with 4 other people, the bg can easily still result in you losing, especially if you get a 15v15 or higher BG. It's not as big an exploit as people claim IMO. So download it if you want to do more RBGs and enjoy.

    I have been encountering tons of Horde 5 man premades in random BG's. Horde DEFINITELY use it for randoms.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 06:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Untrue. Blizzard UI doesn't allow you to queue for random BG with more than 5 people. An addon must be used for that. Yes, AV enabler and Oqueue allow you to queue with 5, but they also allow you to queue with more than 5 which I argued before is against the spirit of the game (Blizzard agrees) and circumventing game mechanic (Blizzard doesn't agree).

    With simple logic and math as you can see above.

    Before: win ratio of 20%.
    Average win rating of horde and alliance player: 50%.
    After: win ratio of 97%.

    Now, you can argue the addon is successful. I fully agree with you on that one, Delznope. However without the addon an average player would still have a 50% win/loss rating. You didn't even come close to that. Not even half of that!

    One of the most uninformed posts I have read in a long time. Try actually going into a random BG, Alliance is filled with idiots who have no gear and no clue how to play pvp, dont target/silence/CC healers, try to kill prot warriors and DKs with an enemy healer standing next to them, never use CC of any kind and attack random targets so all your teams dps is spread out across the entire enemy team and not focused.

    If you can use OQ to find people who have gear and know how to pvp, it will be 1000x betters than randoms with Alliance idiots. And NO, wanting to use OQ to find PVP'ers on shit PVE realms like Uldum does not make someone a baddy, it makes them a smart, good player who doesnt waste their time with awful Allaince random players.


    "Average win rating of horde and alliance player: 50%."
    Thats Blizzards line of bullshit to keep people happy. Alliance sure as hell are not winning 50% in Randoms, Alliance is dog shit players in random since MoP came out and have been getting curbed stomped regularly. I am willing to bet real money Horde are winning 75% in randoms. In Cata it was much better, in Cata you could easily say win ratio was 50/50, but not in MoP.
    Last edited by Svarbald; 2013-01-21 at 06:54 AM.

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