Cow Clicking

[bany]

TLDR: "I am a special snowflake and demand the ability to wall the general population off from what I believe is my content."

The fact of the matter is that the game only became popular once the system was relaxed to permit more casual playstyles and see a democratization of the content. The average player is not patient and/or competent enough to spend time on challenge modes, early Cata heroics, etc.

You are looking for competence in places that were designed to be as permissive as possible.

I will never understand this argument of special snowflakes
I dont have any time now to play, and definitly not enough time to raid, but i would rather play wow in full blue gear in vanila/tbc times
It is not tinted rosed glasses, it is the fact that people that commit just be stand out and be revered for their dedication

[ipaq]

And calling people "window lickers" is awful. You don't know what could be wrong with a person that stops them performing at their highest possible level. Using a term like that is downright disgusting. So yeah, I will defend these people.

This thread is all over the place. The game has always been the easy MMO and the only hard thing about it was gathering 39 of your guildies and sorting out who does what. People equate grind/time sinks to difficulty all too often. Please people, learn the difference.

There is plenty of challenge in the game still, you just have to be willing to actually do it. Not doing Challenge Modes because you don't get gear with stats is laughable when you complain about no challenge. You want to stand out? Get gold in all challenge Modes, get your cosmetic gear that very few people have.

Hardcore are hardcore - It don't mean elitist jerks.
Casual are casual - it don't mean the are bad.

Now "window lickers" fit to describe the trash you can find in most random and is the subject of what ppl are complaining about.

Same thing with random bg. Remove rewards for losing them and you'll find a lot less bots, afkers and subscribers.

[Decklan]

There's content made especially for you. It's called heroic raids, and if you don't like such a big raid setting, challenge modes. If even challenge modes are too large, there's always rank 8 brawler's guild.

[Otiswhitaker]

I don't want anything handed to me.

I like challenges to conquer. I do not like time-sinks.

Daily quests, scenarios, MoP dungeons and LFR feel like Farmville to me. Doing these things do not feel meaningful. The rewards earned through doing these things do not feel meaningful.

I'm not even saying LFR should be taken away from the masses, though I would like it to feel more like raiding and less like just doing nothing and getting loot. I think maybe it should occupy a space in progression below dungeons, and the dungeons should be more effort-intensive.

What do you think I am saying I want handed to me?

I don't think LFR feels like "doing nothing".
Keep your god damned ego in check and your overwhelming desire to insult people in check, please.

[ipaq]

I don't think LFR feels like "doing nothing".
Keep your god damned ego in check and your overwhelming desire to insult people in check, please.

Craw: Watch it you made one of "them" angry.

[Xl House lX]

And yet millions of people still enjoyed playing the game without feeling some bizarre entitlement to everything.

That said, I don't particularly mind the current model - there's challenge there if you want it, easy content if you don't - but I don't agree with your sentiment that no one on your server being good enough to kill KJ is a fault in design.

Casuals are the norm. I accept that.
The game GREW during classic and TBC, which was ridiculously punishing to casuals - because casuals played casual content, they did what was available FOR THEM without demanding access to raids - which weren't designed for casual play back then.

People need to learn that not EVERYTHING in the game is for them, both casual and "hardcore" - casual players need to stop clamoring for easier raid content outside of LFR and arguably normals, "hardcore" players need to stop complaining about how easy dailies, dungeons and LFR is.

Go play the content designed for you, stop complaining when you can't play everything.

I never beat orcs must die on the hardest difficulty setting, I still enjoyed doing the normal difficulty and what levels I could on the harder one. I was not robbed in any way, the hard content doesn't need to be made easier - I had my fun with what I could manage, and if I want to do more - that's on my end to get better. If you don't feel you got your monies worth, then you made a poor purchase and, in the case of WoW, can stop paying at any time.

This post sums up the argument pretty well. The game has always... in some sense had content for both groups of players. Over the course of the game though the content in which belonged to each group of people changed and also increased/decreased in amounts. At this point in time 'Hardcore' players get Challenge mode dungeons and Heroic Raids, and they can choose to do less difficult things that could belong to casuals, but like the OP stated it'd feel non rewarding. Its like if you were forced to play a game you've already mastered. On the other hand, casuals get (and feels rewarding for them) LFG, LFR, Scenarios, Dailies, Pet-Battles... just about double the content hardcore players get.

[Otiswhitaker]

Craw: Watch it you made one of "them" angry.

and you are precisely why people view the WoW community as a seething hate-pot of venom.

[ipaq]

and you are precisely why people view the WoW community as a seething hate-pot of venom.

Woot I made him angry too.

[PetersenIII]

You are looking for competence in places that were designed to be as permissive as possible.

Looking for competence? Looking for competence. That's exactly it. Game developes expect their players to be competent - or once upon a time they did - more importantly, in a cooperative team-based game PLAYERS expect their comrades to be competent. Cata heroics at release required competence. They didn't require especially great skill, mere competence and understanding that you should have developed for 85 levels. Why they "dumbed-down" those instances to the derp-fests we have now is beyond me.

I enjoy to play for a challenge. I really don't understand why companies have not 'ripped off' two of the greatest aspects of City of Heroes' game desnign: Sidekick/Exemplar and personal adjustable difficulty (come to think of it, Monster Power in Diablo 3 comes damned close to that last one). If they could implement analogues to those to systems, a lot of these "Too hard/too easy" complaint threads would disappear. Or have the lovely canned response of "Well crank up/down your difficulty, dumbass."

[Theendgamelv3]

That's not even on point at all. I don't need to be the best in the world. I've never been able to maintain that level of commitment.

But there needs to be something in between heroic raiders and LFR scrubs, and right now, there really isn't. The game rewards performance among the super-committed and time-investment for everyone else.

I want to be a good player, and I want to be able to earn distinctions for being a good player. Challenge modes would be fantastic, if they were part of the progression path. As it is, almost nobody attempts them.

There used to be guilds that mostly progressed in the normal modes, raiding one or two nights a week. Those guilds are gone on most servers. Those people now gear in the LFR and then maybe PuG down some of the normal bosses later on.

I want proof of your claims about "most" servers don't have normal raiding guilds and no, your server isn't evidence enough to justify your claims. I am in a normal raiding guild right now on a server, so I can claim your "most" as false going by my circumstances. You talk about challenge and everything yet when it stares at you in the face with challenge mode dungeons, heroic raids you don't seem interested. If your server sucks, go to a new one. If you don't want to do that, that is on you and so I guess challenge isn't motivation enough to start anew.

[Crawford]

There's content made especially for you. It's called heroic raids, and if you don't like such a big raid setting, challenge modes. If even challenge modes are too large, there's always rank 8 brawler's guild.

Challenge modes and brawler's guilds are completely segregated from the progression structure. They are intentionally made irrelevant. These things should reward better gear than LFR.

[Cows For Life]

I think the OP should play EVE or something if WoW is too easy.

He seems to have forgotten that WoW was a lot easier than pretty much all MMOs that came before it so why this game instead of some other.

[ipaq]

I think the OP should play EVE or something if WoW is too easy.

He seems to have forgotten that WoW was a lot easier than pretty much all MMOs that came before it so why this game instead of some other.

Less grindy. Clearing Naxx/40 was harder than most MMO I played before.

[Cows For Life]

Less grindy. Clearing Naxx/40 was harder than most MMO I played before.

Finding 8 tanks was a pain.

Also getting your priests some hit [rating] set by "stealing" from DPS casters.

[IIamaKing]

If only there were harder versions of LFR and Heroic 5 mans, a place that would challenge you and reward your efforts with titles, mounts and the best gear in the game........

[Florena]

So what if dailies, dungeons and LFR are easy? It doesn't matter. Those are the contents MADE to be easy.

If you want a challenge, you can:

1. Do challenge mode dungeons for prestige and transmog gear to show off.

2. Do normal mode and heroic mode raids to get rewards beyond what you can get through dailies and dungeons.

3. Participate in an arena or RBG team that is pushing for rating rather than just farming conquest.

There is plenty in the game for the 'hardcore' people to do. Just because the low end of content is easy doesn't mean the entire game is faceroll.

[ipaq]

Finding 8 tanks was a pain.

Also getting your priests some hit [rating] set by "stealing" from DPS casters.

Just the farming for pot and buff every week...

Guild drama over mail/leather DPS Items between rogue/warrior/shammy/druids =D

[Raybourne]

Considering nobody on my server even saw Kil'jaeden, I would have to disagree.

that's exactly why it worked.

[ipaq]

Yadiyada...

3. Participate in an arena or RBG team that is pushing for rating rather than just farming conquest.

Yeah don't forget the all mighty Vent Trading boss for Arena.

[Theendgamelv3]

I agree. I am 25. When I was much younger, most of the games around didn't give purples. You played them because many of them had good stories, but mostly because they challenged you in some way. You wanted to beat them. You wanted to get better, and beat the shit out of skull man in mega man 4. You wanted to perfect timing and beat Bowser. You wanted to learn all the moves and beat M. Bison. You wanted to work on your reflexes and save the world in Goldeneye 64. Part of it was the prestige, the pride, the adrenaline and stories between you and your friends.

Call me a special snowflake, but I think the difference between hardcore/casual is less about time played, or even skill, its about your attitude. Like you said, you have the guy who is obsessed with gearscore, and then they guys who want to work at it for challenge.

You guys that disagree or think I am a special snowflake should go read some articles about WHY games like Farmville even got popular. The attitudes involved, the reaosn why people would want to play these games. Do you think Super Mario World for the SNES would have been a great game if you had to turn it on every few hours, click a few think and turn it off?

People that enjoyed older expansions of WoW aren't special snowflakes, we aren't elitists who want barriers set for casuals... We just had things we liked with a story we liked and the genre/game got changed, warped, and shat on so that Blizzard could sell out.

Log in on your lunch break, click a few things, get stuff. That sounds just like farmville to me.

There is ONE big flaw in your argument, every game you listed is single player. You got to play on your time and your time only. You talk about how old games and such, let me point to you OLDER games, games that didn't even give you a story, but a high score and how people put their names on their high score at the arcade machines. WoW has such a feature, it is called Challenge mode Dungeons. Now while you do need others to do this, I think you can find 4 other people in a game of 10 million that has the same mentality, hell Crawford would be a perfect teammate for you to do said dungeons since you both want challenge (assuming you both either play in the US or EU). Attempt to get the best times in those dungeons.

Challenge modes and brawler's guilds are completely segregated from the progression structure. They are intentionally made irrelevant. These things should reward better gear than LFR.

So it is about gear and not the challenge then? You talk about challenge, how you want to win and how you want to be a special snowflake, well that is why they have transmog gear from challenge. You talk about progression, yet you don't want to do it. You don't want to do tons of dailies, easy dungeons, etc. Sorry that is how you progress to the hard stuff. You are telling me in a game of millions you believe you can't find 9 or 24 other like minded people? I am not a big fan of people who yell "I want challenge" yet refuse to go the route for challenge. Brawlers Guild and Challenge mode offer this yet and you go "No, not progression sorry". Heroic mode raids and you go "I don't want to grind at all." Why do you play WoW at all? You don't want to grind? There was a Blue post talking about how a grind is necessary. You talk about Vanilla and TBC, how did you survive that, those had MORE grind. You talk about how you don't want to to kill bosses that you just killed on LFR and you talking about how you would have to join a new raiding guild. I see all of this stuff as excuses. You don't HAVE to do LFR. Sorry you don't. If your guild requires you to do so, leave that guild. You shouldn't talk about wanting a challenge and complain how you have to jump through hoops to achieve said challenge.