Cow Clicking

[Deleted]

Don't see how LFR kills guilds to be perfectly honest. I came back to raiding couple days before 5.1 launched and did LFR for couple of weeks to grab couple of epics.
Nowadays I almost never do LFR but I still like to have possibility to queue for it and test my dps on specific bosses to get a better feeling of my gear progression.
Why so much hate for non-trivial content ?

[cFortyfive]

i personally know alot of people who started playing in wrath

I do as well - and even they knew the lichking. If you'd asked around though during tbc times who deathwing was only the true lorelol faction would have known.

[Elegiac]

Don't see how LFR kills guilds to be perfectly honest. I came back to raiding couple days before 5.1 launched and did LFR for couple of weeks to grab couple of epics.
Nowadays I almost never do LFR but I still like to have possibility to queue for it and test my dps on specific bosses to get a better feeling of my gear progression.
Why so much hate for non-trivial content ?

It doesn't. Clearly the OP's guild had internal problems and used LFR as a pretext for giving up.

[Justignoreme]

Dungeons and raids were never designed to be permissive until Hour of Twilight and LFR.

The game was as popular in BC as it is now, and it was more popular in Wrath and Cata.

Game popularity in BC had nothing to do with the 1% of the playerbase raiding. And Wrath was what introduced the "permissive" heroics and raids, not HoT and LFR. Wrath raids didn't require pointless, time wasting attunments which were unlocked by grinding rep to get dungeon keys to do heroic versions of any given dungeon.

Blizzard counts its global playerbase, which probably masks North American and EU subscriber declines with growth in China, where the game is still peaking, but guilds have really crumbled on my server since 4.3, and I absolutely blame LFR for taking the motivation out of raid progression. It's really hard to get psyched up to spend a night wiping on the raid version of a boss that is a speed bump in LFR, and drops similar loot.

No, you need to stop raiding with lazy, unmotivated people if you want progression and hardmodes. not take away LFR from people who don't want to be in a raiding guild or have time to devote to a strict raiding schedule (which is imperative for progression raiding). Regular raid gear is considerably better than LFR gear, and thats just regular raids. Heroic raids are what you want to go after for prestige and accomplishment anyways.

And, yes, I want to be a special snowflake? Why would I invest time, effort and monthly subscription fees in a persistent character, if I'm just going to be the same as everyone else. I could just play Call of Duty.

You want to be special, but not special enough? You are with people who can't down bosses on regular and say "eff it, LFR is good enough" so they stop trying, and pretend like hardmodes aren't lightyears beyond LFR in terms of mechanics, drops, titles and skill required.

[Immitis]

I do as well - and even they knew the lichking. If you'd asked around though during tbc times who deathwing was only the true lorelol faction would have known.

thats the main problem with deathwing he was mostly built up in books and even in the raids and dungeons about the twilight hammer or the black dragons they barely mentioned him. he also barely got any attention in his own expansion.

its a shame really since deathwing couldve been alot better

[Crawford]

This 100X over.

A small few people keep going "I want it to be like Vanilla WOW or TBC because it was hard and you had to grind for everything" compared to all other mmo's at the time wow released WOW is the most casual mmo released and still is to this day.

I don't want to grind for everything. I don't want to grind at all. I want to play, I want to face challenges, and I want to win.

Instead, I get a game that eats time and spits out progression based on intervals of time invested, instead of a game that poses challenges and rewards me for conquering them.

For example, your rate of gear acquisition in MoP is tied to your willingness to do at least 45 daily quests per week.

And maybe it's true that if dungeons are hard, I don't want to do them every day, but when they're easy, I don't want to do them at all. The rewards no longer signify anything.

[Jtbrig7390]

I don't want to grind for everything. I don't want to grind at all. I want to play, I want to face challenges, and I want to win.

Then do heroic mode go for world first's do solo's no one has done and do challenge mode that is what they are there for. What you want is there you just refuse to do it.

By the way you most invest time in all MMO's to be rewarded this has never changed at all wow has been that way forever and so has every other mmo made. Each just takes a different amount of time.


/End Thread.

[Crawford]

It doesn't. Clearly the OP's guild had internal problems and used LFR as a pretext for giving up.

That's ridiculous. There are far fewer raiding guilds on my server these days. The whole server has plunged in population relative to the launch of 4.3.

My own motivation is a lot less than it used to be. It's much harder to work up the desire to log on and work on progress on a boss that I killed three weeks ago in LFR. Otherwise, I'd have joined a new raid guild.

In MoP, I'm mostly doing RBGs and pet battles.

[Deleted]

Instead, I get a game that eats time and spits out progression based on intervals of time invested, instead of a game that poses challenges and rewards me for conquering them.

For example, your rate of gear acquisition in MoP is tied to your willingness to do at least 45 daily quests per week.

Plenty of challenge in heroic raiding, if you don't do it then you can't blame the devs for putting in easy content and hard content, then you choosing to take the slow, but easy road to mediocrity, instead of the challenging road to accomplishment.

VP items dictated how well you were geared in the first few weeks of the expansion, anyone using VP on VP items instead of item upgrades is doing it wrong.

[Christan]

i'd be willing to bet much more than 10% of the pop base does indeed raid... it only looks like 10% because of all the %$!%$ bots,
from what i'm seeing with herb/mining bots(pvp ones i guess people bot and sell those chars) about 30% of the playerbase aren't played by a living human other than to transfer gold around.

[Immitis]

I don't want to grind for everything. I don't want to grind at all. I want to play, I want to face challenges, and I want to win.

Instead, I get a game that eats time and spits out progression based on intervals of time invested, instead of a game that poses challenges and rewards me for conquering them.

For example, your rate of gear acquisition in MoP is tied to your willingness to do at least 45 daily quests per week.

And maybe it's true that if dungeons are hard, I don't want to do them every day, but when they're easy, I don't want to do them at all. The rewards no longer signify anything.

do you know how long it takes to do those dailies? less than 15 minutes. i can go to the darkmoon faire get my rep buff hearthstone to the vale fly to a daily hub and finish my required dailies for coins before the buff even gets to 40 minutes.

if you want challenge but cant be arsed to play 15 minutes everyday then wtf is it you want? to just log on at any time do whatever the hell you want and get everything handed to you?

[Jtbrig7390]

i'd be willing to bet much more than 10% of the pop base does indeed raid... it only looks like 10% because of all the %$!%$ bots,
from what i'm seeing with herb/mining bots(pvp ones i guess people bot and sell those chars) about 30% of the playerbase aren't played by a living human other than to transfer gold around.

In cata blizzard released official numbers saying like only 7% of the wow pop raids its one of those things they can not lie about. Now if that number has changed just depends. If they count LFR then im sure its higher if not then it could be a little higher lower or the same.

[Justignoreme]

That's ridiculous. There are far fewer raiding guilds on my server these days. The whole server has plunged in population relative to the launch of 4.3.

My own motivation is a lot less than it used to be. It's much harder to work up the desire to log on and work on progress on a boss that I killed three weeks ago in LFR. Otherwise, I'd have joined a new raid guild.

In MoP, I'm mostly doing RBGs and pet battles.

Guilds up and leave because the playerbase on the server they are on is stagnant and terrible. Rather than fester with an unchanging pool of players they know aren't up to par, they leave, either as a guild or disband and players go their separate ways. LFR has nothing to do with it. And if you don't want to grind why on earth do you dare bring up BC? All that was, was an extended grind, just to be able to *enter* Kara.

[TheWindWalker]

I don't want to grind for everything. I don't want to grind at all. I want to play, I want to face challenges, and I want to win.

Instead, I get a game that eats time and spits out progression based on intervals of time invested, instead of a game that poses challenges and rewards me for conquering them.

For example, your rate of gear acquisition in MoP is tied to your willingness to do at least 45 daily quests per week.

And with that single sentence, everything you said before is invalidated because it shows you either don't understand that valor gear was (and still mostly is) a lower ilvl than Normal Mode gear from HoF and ToES. It also shows you likely have never stepped foot into a raid this tier because you would know that the gear to completely even Mogu'shan Vaults is ilvl463. Not 489. 463. The fights have challenging mechanics a raid has to learn in order to beat the bosses regardless of whether they're in dungeon blues or decked out in valor gear.

Until you've got some heroic bosses downed you aren't gong to understand that your opinion in invalidated as it asserts as fact something that clearly isn't true.

[MoanaLisa]

For example, your rate of gear acquisition in MoP is tied to your willingness to do at least 45 daily quests per week.

This is simply quite untrue. There are lots of ways to get gear that don't involve doing 45 daily quests a week. You started off looking to make a serious argument about the game. One that a lot of people could disagree with but that's not news. LFR was to blame for your guild not wanting to raid; now dailies are to blame for not getting gear. This is less and less serious as we go along.

[cFortyfive]

In cata blizzard released official numbers saying like only 7% of the wow pop raids its one of those things they can not lie about. Now if that number has changed just depends. If they count LFR then im sure its higher if not then it could be a little higher lower or the same.

Well honestly I'd really love to have access to those full statistics they must have lying around somewhere.

[Crawford]

This is simply quite untrue. There are lots of ways to get gear that don't involve doing 45 daily quests a week.

You get three extra boss rolls if you do 45 dailies. That impacts your rate of gear acquisition considerably.

[Immitis]

i'd be willing to bet much more than 10% of the pop base does indeed raid... it only looks like 10% because of all the %$!%$ bots,
from what i'm seeing with herb/mining bots(pvp ones i guess people bot and sell those chars) about 30% of the playerbase aren't played by a living human other than to transfer gold around.

a couple months after lfr launched blizzard put out a post that said something along the lines of "2 MILLION PEOPLE ENJOY DEMON SOUL" and in the article it said that the combined total of people who have entered demon soul in either lfr or normal was 2 million.

its possible that number couldve gone down or up but the raiding community is right around that many including lfr. im sure if you take lfr out of the equation that number would drop drastically

---------- Post added 2013-01-13 at 04:45 AM ----------

You get three extra boss rolls if you do 45 dailies. That impacts your rate of gear acquisition considerably.

the coins have what? a 25% chance at giving you extra loot on every roll.

if you really are a hardcore raider isnt that something you would be willing to do? hardcore raiders respec. change glyphs, lvl entire professions or race change just for small 5% buffs yet you arent willing to spend 15 minutes a day doing a couple dailies or pet battles to get coins?

[Xeraxis]

You get three extra boss rolls if you do 45 dailies. That impacts your rate of gear acquisition considerably.

Someone must have never used a coin if they believe it increases gear acquisition considerably.

[MoanaLisa]

You get three extra boss rolls if you do 45 dailies. That impacts your rate of gear acquisition considerably.

Bosses that you're not seeing because your guild can't get it together to raid. Those extra rolls don't mean a lot in LFR if you believe what you read from people's experience.