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  1. #21
    Seems better than paladin's devo aura, and even as prot that's my *only* raid cooldown, so i'll be happy to get it on my rogue.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    Seems better than paladin's devo aura, and even as prot that's my *only* raid cooldown, so i'll be happy to get it on my rogue.
    Assuming silence/interrupts aren't an issue, here's the breakdown:

    Devo aura lasts 1 sec longer, and reaches 5x the distance.
    Smokebomb also reduces melee damage (or vizier's F&V presumably).

    If reaching 40 yards instead of 8 is weaker than being able to drop it on the tanks... well, I'd argue it's better "by encounter," but I've seen some raids saved literally by DA and a couple of other CDs being pulled together to encompass a spread out raid (Stone guardians in particular).

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosferato View Post
    if its gonna be a raid cd in pve it will become op for pvp and get nerfed, jut give us a raid dps cd with a poison gas that makes ant dmg hit for extra poison dmg similar to the shammys totem
    not if they just make it reduce AoE damage.

    and a poison gas increasing damage taken on the enemy would be sweet (think Omnitron)

  4. #24
    The dmg reduction would need to have a bigger range than smokebomb itself other wise its uses get a lot more limited.

  5. #25
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
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    Our issues extend far beyond a basic and situational raid CD, I'm thankful for it, but I do wish they'd focus on more pressing issues.

    Also, seriously, take Vendetta of the GCD.
    I am the lucid dream
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  6. #26
    Well, it would be nice if it was a bigger range than just the bomb. That requires a lot of effort to fit in there. I just think they need to stop the schizo design. Rogues are designed to be the #1 dps, and bring no utility- long long ago. Why do we get to keep the second half of that formula?

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Rogues are designed to be the #1 dps, and bring no utility- long long ago. Why do we get to keep the second half of that formula?
    Because that is the major complaint from the Rogue community. There is no reason to bring a Rogue to a 10 man raid, they bring no utility. Not wiping is more important compared to dealing a smudge more damage and is the difference between a kill or not. My damage as a Rogue in my previous 10 man guild was fantastic. Damage has never been my issue, there was just no reason for me to be there and deal heaps of damage if some small AoE killed us.

    It wasn't that black and white of course, we didn't wipe over and over again because I didn't have any utility or raid wide cooldowns (and if that was the case we should have replaced our healers), but I hope this gets the point across. Rogues have no place in a 10 man raid other than cheesing Garalon or Stone Guards.

    To be honest I'm genuinely shocked at the responses in this topic. When I was reading about all the new changes my first reaction was that Blizzard saw the issues Rogues were having and that they were actively working on fixing everything that was wrong. I was quite happy with all the new changes and fixes and I thought the Rogue community would embrace all the shiny new toys as well. I know the Rogue community is generally quite vocal when it comes to nerfs and whining about little things that don't effect them but... sheesh guys.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  8. #28
    ^I don't think people are genuinely unhappy about getting a raid-cooldown, but rather that they're unhappy about the changes we're NOT getting. Getting a raid cooldown is fine, but at this point it feels more like a band-aid than a solution.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    Because that is the major complaint from the Rogue community. There is no reason to bring a Rogue to a 10 man raid, they bring no utility. Not wiping is more important compared to dealing a smudge more damage and is the difference between a kill or not. My damage as a Rogue in my previous 10 man guild was fantastic. Damage has never been my issue, there was just no reason for me to be there and deal heaps of damage if some small AoE killed us.

    It wasn't that black and white of course, we didn't wipe over and over again because I didn't have any utility or raid wide cooldowns (and if that was the case we should have replaced our healers), but I hope this gets the point across. Rogues have no place in a 10 man raid other than cheesing Garalon or Stone Guards.

    To be honest I'm genuinely shocked at the responses in this topic. When I was reading about all the new changes my first reaction was that Blizzard saw the issues Rogues were having and that they were actively working on fixing everything that was wrong. I was quite happy with all the new changes and fixes and I thought the Rogue community would embrace all the shiny new toys as well. I know the Rogue community is generally quite vocal when it comes to nerfs and whining about little things that don't effect them but... sheesh guys.
    how do you fix something so outdated ? rogue didnt change much over the past 8 years unlike most other classes,also i wouldnt mind a raid CD but please make a new one dont change smoke into something that will never work very well, problem with this is its limited range since you most likely will never get the whole 25/10 man into one tiny smokebomb,this requires alot of coordination for a 5 second window
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues :

    -Rogues might still be dealing with the changes to combo points {2014}

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    how do you fix something so outdated ? rogue didnt change much over the past 8 years unlike most other classes,also i wouldnt mind a raid CD but please make a new one dont change smoke into something that will never work very well, problem with this is its limited range since you most likely will never get the whole 25/10 man into one tiny smokebomb,this requires alot of coordination for a 5 second window
    Be happy you get something, and it really isn't as hard as you make it seem. There are plenty of fights where stacking up is something that's required. Spirit Kings with the first cleaving boss is just the perfect example, and there are plenty more like that. If they didn't add this (assuming it will make it live) people would just complain about Rogues not getting any change and still not getting any utility.

    When will you be happy? When you get a button that deals 90% of the boss' HP in damage, stealths everyone, makes it so no one can die in the next 20 seconds and gives you a 500% damage buff? I can see this being a bandaid fix like Incineration said. But a free raid cooldown at no cost and nothing to compensate for it? I'll take it.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  11. #31
    Under normal conditions, I'd say the "I'll take any scraps and left-overs you'll throw at me!"-attitude is an unhealthy one, but they certainly don't leave us much choice, do they? :/

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    Under normal conditions, I'd say the "I'll take any scraps and left-overs you'll throw at me!"-attitude is an unhealthy one, but they certainly don't leave us much choice, do they? :/
    Sadly not. I'm personally just very excited some Rogue problems are being fixed. I don't see this as a saving grace, I see this as Blizzard understanding the shortcomings and working on a fix. If this whole new revamp in 6.0 comes and Blizzard will look back at all the complaining from Smoke Bomb as a raid wide utility cooldown, they aren't going to give Rogues a new one. Maybe Rogue gameplay will be a lot more interesting in 6.0, but if they still don't bring anything to the table they are still going to be sat out in serious 10 man groups.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  13. #33
    I'll be sitting on my rogue for this expansion again, and hope for the best the future can bring. I will, however, decide on a whim whether to bench him or not the instant I'm told whether 6.0 will be giving us the needed revamp or not. I've got sufficient patience to wait another expansion. I won't sit through two, blindly hoping for a "fix" that might never come. I'd much rather just reroll mage or lock and get it over with...

  14. #34
    Oh and same goes for me, but the other way around. The moment Rogues become what I expect of the class again I have no issues switching back. Deciding to quit my Rogue was not an easy decision. While I am very, very happy on my new character I do miss my Rogue a lot. But I'm not going to sit around and feel like a liability to my raid for 1-2 years or however long this expansion will last. I know Rogues do some fantastic damage but I constantly had the feeling I could help my raid out so much more if I played something else.

    Ironically I'm now in a 25 man guild where Rogues have their spot... but hey.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    Be happy you get something, and it really isn't as hard as you make it seem. There are plenty of fights where stacking up is something that's required. Spirit Kings with the first cleaving boss is just the perfect example, and there are plenty more like that. If they didn't add this (assuming it will make it live) people would just complain about Rogues not getting any change and still not getting any utility.

    When will you be happy? When you get a button that deals 90% of the boss' HP in damage, stealths everyone, makes it so no one can die in the next 20 seconds and gives you a 500% damage buff? I can see this being a bandaid fix like Incineration said. But a free raid cooldown at no cost and nothing to compensate for it? I'll take it.
    did you ever see me talking about doing something like this ? smokebombe as a raid CD wont solve anything spirit kings you could only use it 1-2 times during the whole fight witch lasts more then 9 minutes if you kite around the last one how does this solve anything ? also why would i ise this cd on the cleave dude i'd use it if 3-4 ppl are outside the cleave but that makes the CD not as effective since only 6-7 members might get in it,im in for a CD but plz let smokebombe be smokebomb and give us something NEW
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues :

    -Rogues might still be dealing with the changes to combo points {2014}

  16. #36
    This is the one thing I have been really calling for. In my own group there have been times where I wish I was a different class and could cast hero or a battlerez, or just do something for the raid. I cannot offheal, I cannot do anything neat to save the raid's ass. There have been times when we are coordinating cooldowns for certain things where after I use all my personal def cooldowns, and we still don't beat the encounter and I am sitting there with 75% more hp then any other raid member it made me pretty angry that I couldn't have a raid CD to increase mitigation.

    But seriously besides DPS what do we offer? Stuns are practically useless on boss encounters, so that control goes out of the window, and when you do need a stun its likely an AOE stun which other classes bring, and we do not. I have yet to see a reason this past tier to use any poisons besides crippling which is kind of sad. If out of the 3-4 utility options we have for poisons, and only one of them work for one-two encounters, there is a problem there.
    Last edited by kabrai; 2013-01-14 at 03:50 AM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    did you ever see me talking about doing something like this ? smokebombe as a raid CD wont solve anything spirit kings you could only use it 1-2 times during the whole fight witch lasts more then 9 minutes if you kite around the last one how does this solve anything ? also why would i ise this cd on the cleave dude i'd use it if 3-4 ppl are outside the cleave but that makes the CD not as effective since only 6-7 members might get in it,im in for a CD but plz let smokebombe be smokebomb and give us something NEW
    The topic wasn't about Spirit Kings, the topic was about people stacking up in it. To which I replied that on bosses like Spirit Kings it's really not that hard to get people to stack up as raid mechanic already require people to stack up anyway. 20% damage reduction is 20% damage reduction regardless of how many people it effects. It's still a effective cooldown albeit the radius is a bit on the low side.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise, (Eternity), Incinerator, Bolt, Quip, Frostfang, The Moot, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Predator and Aether.

  18. #38
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    To be honest I would be happy just to see the old TotT back. Reduced damage buff when glyphed and free of energy cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    To be honest I would be happy just to see the old TotT back. Reduced damage buff when glyphed and free of energy cost.
    That would be no different than what it currently provides. Temporary single-target buffs simply aren't that useful. If they made it a raid-wide defensive cooldown, great, I'd love that. As it is, I find it rather counter intuitive.

    EDIT: What's really strange is how Dark Intent and Focus Magic were both removed/reworked, while Tricks got to stay. That seems... Weird. Doesn't it?

  20. #40
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    That would be no different than what it currently provides. Temporary single-target buffs simply aren't that useful. If they made it a raid-wide defensive cooldown, great, I'd love that. As it is, I find it rather counter intuitive.

    EDIT: What's really strange is how Dark Intent and Focus Magic were both removed/reworked, while Tricks got to stay. That seems... Weird. Doesn't it?
    It does seem odd. It would be different than its current setup. You either get to spend 15 energy to buff a dps for 6 sec by 15% or spend no energy to have it just be a tank threat CD. I would like to see the glyph make it 5-10% damage increase for no energy.

    I do agree that we need a raid CD. Hell the most utility I bring to raid is shroud to sneak past annoying trash when the tanks feel like being lazy. I feel almost dirty calling that raid utility.

    Edit- On the topic of DI and FM, Power Infusion also got changed, it's now self cast only. Seems the only single target damage boost that wasn't reworked WAS tricks. More of Blizz ignoring rogues?
    Last edited by Saegno; 2013-01-14 at 08:41 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

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