1. #1

    High iLvL PVE gear (or) Lower iLvL PVP gear?

    I'm running with decent PVE gear @ about a 494 iLvL. If I begin adding PVP gear, it'll all start with 458 JP gear for the most part. I know PVP gear is better due to PVP Power/Resil, but at what point?

    Am I better just to keep my better PVE gear until I can replace it with something @ a similar level?

    Thx for any help.

  2. #2
    Pandaren Monk
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    No, you will need resilience. You may do more damage, but in the end I really doubt it considering you can get to ~24% before you even get a PvP weapon.
    But the resil is necessary, or you will just explode on impact.

  3. #3
    Field Marshal Nickghost's Avatar
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    Go for PvP gear, like CaptUntsAhts said you will need the resilience.
    Nothing is more frustrating than getting killed instantly and with 0% resilience, that will happen.

  4. #4
    k, thx for the help and cheers!

  5. #5
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    honor gear > Normal raid gear > contenders gear.
    Contenders gear just allows you to live a little bit longer but you do absolutely no damage with it so you'll still be worthless. It's better to still do some damage while hoping not to get focused.

  6. #6
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    What others have said isn't strictly true. You now have a base resilience of 40% (yes even in FULL PVE Gear). That being said, fully 483 geared and Resi gemmed (which isn't recommended unless FCing) is only 65% Resi. You gain 25% Damage reduction in Full PVP gear. This helps, but isn't most important.

    HOWEVER

    PVP Power is what you really need. I have a 509 (with 2 legendary gem/socket) and I'd take the T1 PVP weapon over it all day long. The PVP weapon alone gives 18% PVP power, which is more damage increase than any PVE weapon. Likewise, PVP Gear gives more PVP Power, and thus increased damage than you would ever make up for with higher ILV PVE Gear with a few exceptions.

    I currently use ilv 517 PVE Neck, and Offhand. I lose around 0.6% Resilience, but gain around 1k spell power, and due to the ILV alot of Stamina, and secondary stats (crit in my case). However, once I can fully upgrade my PVP pieces to 491, I will probably switch down to those.

    Judging by your current PVE ILV, your gear isn't THAT MUCH better, to be worth losing the resi, so farm the honour gear, get what malv pieces you can.

    With the announcement of upgrading being removed/delayed in 5.2, don't try and get all Malv pieces, get half of them fully upgraded, as in 5.2 when you get malv pieces with honour, they wont be upgrade-able, so half a set upgraded will be better than a full set (which u can later get with honour, but cant upgrade.)

    Vexxe of Old School.



    Streaming MOP raids live: (14/14HC 25Man SoO) and WOD Beta (Leveling and raid testing Heoric/Mythic) @ http://www.twitch.tv/vexxee

  7. #7
    Mechagnome Wootylicious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    What others have said isn't strictly true. You now have a base resilience of 40% (yes even in FULL PVE Gear). That being said, fully 483 geared and Resi gemmed (which isn't recommended unless FCing) is only 65% Resi. You gain 25% Damage reduction in Full PVP gear. This helps, but isn't most important.
    you couldnt be more wrong about resi..

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7593401327

    MoP EH gap (0 resilience vs fully s12 gear) empirical values
    40% resil = 166.7% EH
    67% resil = 303.0% EH
    >>EH gained = 136.3%
    EH also known as effective health goes up so drastically when more resilience is added.

    TL;DR: 40% Baseline resilience makes gear very important (Gear>Skill) and doesn't allow PvE players to step into arena as intended. A flat 40% damage reduction should be added instead.
    Last edited by Wootylicious; 2013-01-14 at 04:55 PM.

  8. #8
    ^ What the guy above me said.

    Some people were using their level 85 PvP gear at level 90 rather than their levelling blues/greens because of how important Resi is. If you have PvP gear, use it. No matter how high the ilevel of your PvE gear is.

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Think you both misunderstood. I'm not saying Resi is bad, but PVP Power is certainly more important. I also said, with HIS pve gear it isn't worth using it, but some PVE gear is better; in some situations. There are very few pure DPS classes who will gem resi for example over pvp power unless doing so to hit a worthwhile socket bonus. (Some bonuses arn't worth hitting regardless).

    Vexxe of Old School.



    Streaming MOP raids live: (14/14HC 25Man SoO) and WOD Beta (Leveling and raid testing Heoric/Mythic) @ http://www.twitch.tv/vexxee

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    What others have said isn't strictly true. You now have a base resilience of 40% (yes even in FULL PVE Gear). That being said, fully 483 geared and Resi gemmed (which isn't recommended unless FCing) is only 65% Resi. You gain 25% Damage reduction in Full PVP gear. This helps, but isn't most important.

    HOWEVER

    PVP Power is what you really need. I have a 509 (with 2 legendary gem/socket) and I'd take the T1 PVP weapon over it all day long. The PVP weapon alone gives 18% PVP power, which is more damage increase than any PVE weapon. Likewise, PVP Gear gives more PVP Power, and thus increased damage than you would ever make up for with higher ILV PVE Gear with a few exceptions.

    I currently use ilv 517 PVE Neck, and Offhand. I lose around 0.6% Resilience, but gain around 1k spell power, and due to the ILV alot of Stamina, and secondary stats (crit in my case). However, once I can fully upgrade my PVP pieces to 491, I will probably switch down to those.

    Judging by your current PVE ILV, your gear isn't THAT MUCH better, to be worth losing the resi, so farm the honour gear, get what malv pieces you can.

    With the announcement of upgrading being removed/delayed in 5.2, don't try and get all Malv pieces, get half of them fully upgraded, as in 5.2 when you get malv pieces with honour, they wont be upgrade-able, so half a set upgraded will be better than a full set (which u can later get with honour, but cant upgrade.)

    I don't know what comp or lvl of PvP you are playing, but PvE gear is 100% shit in PvP. Resil is the way to go without it you are dead. The best thing you can do is get to 67 or even 69% if you are a BS. I don't think anyone has a problem doing dmg it surviving it that seems to be the issue. Wanna survive a warriors burst or a mages? 69% resil is the way to go. Having 2k more spell power has no effect at all against the kinda PvP we are playing.

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miko View Post
    I don't know what comp or lvl of PvP you are playing, but PvE gear is 100% shit in PvP. Resil is the way to go without it you are dead. The best thing you can do is get to 67 or even 69% if you are a BS. I don't think anyone has a problem doing dmg it surviving it that seems to be the issue. Wanna survive a warriors burst or a mages? 69% resil is the way to go. Having 2k more spell power has no effect at all against the kinda PvP we are playing.
    I'd love to see you math out the difference between

    Malevolent Gladiators Reprieve (ilv 470) and Tornado-Summoning Censor (ilv 517)

    As with all rules there are exceptions, and blinding following any consensus doesn't make it right.

    Vexxe of Old School.



    Streaming MOP raids live: (14/14HC 25Man SoO) and WOD Beta (Leveling and raid testing Heoric/Mythic) @ http://www.twitch.tv/vexxee

  12. #12
    Pvp stats are mandatory, get all pvp gear.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    I'd love to see you math out the difference between

    Malevolent Gladiators Reprieve (ilv 470) and Tornado-Summoning Censor (ilv 517)

    As with all rules there are exceptions, and blinding following any consensus doesn't make it right.
    In you original post you said "You gain 25% Damage reduction in Full PVP gear. This helps, but isn't most important."
    Which was a comparision between full pvp gear and full pve gear. 25% damage reduction is huge.
    In full pve gear you might do a bit better dps if you are allowed but you will die in a single stun in 1v1.
    And you drain a lot more mana from your healers if you get any heal.

    In your last post you were comparing a single item slot which is another story.
    Not to mention it's the off-hand slot which doesn't have "bonus" pvp stat like all other slots.

  14. #14
    Thats easy math. One has PvP resil. The other does not. In high lvl PvP most top rated players use 100% resil gems. the difference in resil depending on how you gear is 60% 65% 69% and so forth, No matter what your offensive stats are if you are running 69% PvP resil you are going to have a easier time. I don't know how boomkins work in the arena I'll admit, but do you really have problems setting up a kill CC thus need more dmg to faceroll your way to a win? In my experence and from the look at most top rated PvP players you can see that they don't have trouble with dps. It's surviving that is the issue. Even .05 resil is better then an extra 900dps.


    I'll say this also, you can tell when someone has 60% resil because you absolutly maul over them.

  15. #15
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miko View Post

    I'll say this also, you can tell when someone has 60% resil because you absolutly maul over them.
    I find this very interesting. Im in fulv malv gear, (including T2 weapon and OH) with 2/2 upgraded weapon, trinket, helmet, and bracers (i use the bracers for pve)
    Admitadly I'm gemmed for PVPpower, PVPpower+int and PVPpower+Resi to meet socket bonuses.

    There are very few people who actually out gear me (they'd have to be full geared fully upgraded) and yet I have 61.48% Resi. That's only 1.48% more than you; and I quote 'maul over'. You sir must either be a fantastic player, without error or playing against teams with people who don't use their own survivabilty cooldowns, disengage from the fight, or in any way try to survive or sub par healers in my opinion.

    Also play at 2.2k+ I'm yet to team with, or against (from what armoury can show us) any player (except FCs) who stack full resi.

    Through moderate healing, cooldown rotation, and proper positioning stay alive shouldn't be the problem. Getting that all important kill however can be. You only need to down one player of the opposing team to turn the tide from a 10v10 to a 10v9, 8, 7, etc making the initial push in any RBG that much more comfortable. Against higher rated team, winning or losing at the flag in EOTS, Lumber Mill in Arathi Basin, or Water Work in Battle for Gilnaes can be the win or lose of the game. People have to make some serious mistakes to take a base if they have 8+ people defending it.

    Whilst it is disputable resi is needed, knowing how to play and position your class in order to survive is more important, this then opens up the opportunity to allow you to gem for more pvp power for example in order to maximize your pressure on the opposing team.

    Vexxe of Old School.



    Streaming MOP raids live: (14/14HC 25Man SoO) and WOD Beta (Leveling and raid testing Heoric/Mythic) @ http://www.twitch.tv/vexxee

  16. #16
    Mechagnome Wootylicious's Avatar
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    if whole team A is gemmin only pvp power and whole team B is gemming full resilience the team B is actually doing more dmg and their healers have way easier time keeping them alive.

    team A has 60% resi and 50% pvp power
    team B has 65% resi and 45% pvp power

    now lets throw random numbers in the air

    team A's average hit is 100k ( before resilience ) which comes out as.. 52.5k
    Team B's average hit is 100k ( before resilience ) which comes out as.. 58k

    so in fact the team gemming resilience is putting out more dmg than they are receiving..

  17. #17
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    -snip-
    see 2 posts above
    You are 2.2k in RBG as a moonkin... Try arena
    You are not really a target that's worth focussing, in arena on the other hand, they tunnel you for 2min and either your healer is oom or you are dead. Resilience is a lot more important in arena then in RBG.

  18. #18
    Brewmaster Banzhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyphe View Post
    I'm running with decent PVE gear @ about a 494 iLvL. If I begin adding PVP gear, it'll all start with 458 JP gear for the most part. I know PVP gear is better due to PVP Power/Resil, but at what point?

    Am I better just to keep my better PVE gear until I can replace it with something @ a similar level?

    Thx for any help.
    Look at the stat weights for gods sake!

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