Sylvanas Windrunner

[Icarris]

The forsaken have farms where they bury humans up to their necks keeping them ready for harvest or to be eaten by ghouls. They pile up their enemies' bodies in mass graves and raise them from the dead giving them the sadistic choice of 'serve me or be put back to death' and that's just the ones that still have it in them to talk. Where are the alliance POW camps that do that? The humans weren't that bad to orcs they kept in camps even after they destroyed Stormwind and raised some of its defenders as undead death knights.

Read my above post. Sylvanas, nor the forsaken approved of the camp, of the plague usage in hillsbrad, and you are tasked with cleaning out the camp yourself.
And seeing as the camp isn't approved by "forsaken law", it seems you have free will as well.

[Giants41]

I love Sylvanas's character. I feel like blizzard is setting her up to die(again) though

[Qprah]

She's under the impression that Alleria's dead IIRC. One of her last (living) thoughts in Rise of the Lich King was that they'd be reunited in the afterlife soon.

Her last living thought, dont forget happened long before the Dark Portal reopened at the beginning of Burning Crusade and the remaining members of the Sons of Lothar were found all alive and well, excluding Alleria and Turalyon.

It would be entirely reasonable for her to have gained hope of her sister's survival after learning of what really happened after Khadgar closed the portal on the self-destructing Draenor. The statue in Stormwind has a plaque written by Sylvanas that has about as much relevance to what she feels about her sister now as what she thought before dying during Arthas' siege on Quel'Thalas.

[Haven]

And yet the forsaken are the ones with the concentration Death camp in Hillsbrad.

Just saying.

1. Warden Stillwater is a renegade, it's been explained a thousand times. It's like blaming Wrynn for Arthas' deeds - same race, still counts!
2. Durnholde. Just saying.
3. Alliance establishing concentration camps was one of the reasons why Gilneas quit Alliance. Genn Greymane insisted that Alliance exterminated orcs as a race entirely instead of spending a single copper on containing them.

So much for the "good guys".

[Dybia]

Read my above post. Sylvanas, nor the forsaken approved of the camp, of the plague usage in hillsbrad, and you are tasked with cleaning out the camp yourself.
And seeing as the camp isn't approved by "forsaken law", it seems you have free will as well.

...didn't approve of the plague use? Really? Didn't play Gilneas did you? Sylvanas wanted plausible deniability. Either she wanted to be able to deny it or she is the single most incompetent leader of all Warcraft. The fields of Gilneas and Hillsbrad glow green with literally tons of plague that would be impossible to hide from her. If you say it could be hidden from her, then she is even stupider than I said before, and the Wrathgate taught her nothing.

The 'true death' punishment wasn't for using the plague or experimenting on humans. It was for the experiments on other forsaken.

[Icarris]

...didn't approve of the plague use? Really? Didn't play Gilneas did you? Sylvanas wanted plausible deniability. Either she wanted to be able to deny it or she is the single most incompetent leader of all Warcraft. The fields of Gilneas and Hillsbrad glow green with literally tons of plague that would be impossible to hide from her. If you say it could be hidden from her, then she is even stupider than I said before, and the Wrathgate taught her nothing.

The 'true death' punishment wasn't for using the plague or experimenting on humans. It was for the experiments on other forsaken.

Yes it was for the experiment on humans...

Apothecary Lydon: This place is no farm! Stillwater has been experimenting on the humans of Hillsbrad. These monstrosities here are all his creations.

She didn't approve its use in Hillsbrad. Plague use in Gilneas was necessary. The whole quest in hillsbrad you're literally trying to prevent the plague from spreading.

---------- Post added 2013-01-13 at 04:23 PM ----------

Her last living thought, dont forget happened long before the Dark Portal reopened at the beginning of Burning Crusade and the remaining members of the Sons of Lothar were found all alive and well, excluding Alleria and Turalyon.

It would be entirely reasonable for her to have gained hope of her sister's survival after learning of what really happened after Khadgar closed the portal on the self-destructing Draenor. The statue in Stormwind has a plaque written by Sylvanas that has about as much relevance to what she feels about her sister now as what she thought before dying during Arthas' siege on Quel'Thalas.

If a whole platoon of soldiers return without your sister, it's not hard to assume that she died.

[Kralljin]

She didn't approve its use in Hillsbrad.

Source please.

Plague use in Gilneas was necessary.

The Plague is the Nuclear Bomb of Warcraft, it is hard to justify the usage of such a terrible weapon.

And the usage was clearly forbidden yet Sylvanas used it because she couldn't bear to lose Gilneas City, which she did in the end regardless of using the plague.

The whole quest in hillsbrad you're literally trying to prevent the plague from spreading.

To my knowledge, you help the Forsaken to tighten their grip in Hillsbrad by defeating those guerilla Worgen, defeating some rogue Forsaken and destroy the Stormpike invasion into Hillsbrad.

[-Zait-]

The necklace quest is so awesome. I love her as a character. I'm also slightly biased because I think (know) that the Undead are the master WoW race.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The necklace quest is so awesome. I love her as a character. I'm also slightly biased because I think (know) that the Undead are the master WoW race.

........You kidding right?

[Haven]

The Plague is the Nuclear Bomb of Warcraft, it is hard to justify the usage of such a terrible weapon.

It wins battles. Good enough. Or you could call the UN... oh wait there's no UN in WoW. Oops.

[Kralljin]

It wins battles. Good enough. Or you could call the UN... oh wait there's no UN in WoW. Oops.

So because it wins battles you are allowed to use it?

So Garrosh is a pretty cool guy, i guess?

[Daskapital]

I like Sylvanas and I also like Garrosh. I think internal faction conflict in WoW is necessary and I think the lack of infighting is what makes the Alliance story so bloody dull. I don't care that their excesses are well beyond what a reasonable person would do. I want to see my faction leaders going to unreasonable lengths to meet their objectives because that's what adds suspense and drama to the story. Arthas' story was compelling because of the atrocities he committed in the name of furthering his agenda and I feel the same way about Sylvanas and Garrosh. I think people should be asking for some equivalent conflict within the alliance faction isntead of a bunch of moderate level headed politicians in both factions. The problem with doing away with these dark horse characters is that without them, there is really no reason for any animosity between horde/alliance.

Sylvanas is arguably a terrible person as is Garrosh, but they serve an important narrative function and I think the game would be dull and would lose out on alot of the internal faction politics without them.

[mistuhbull]

She misses the good old times Nostalgia if you wish..
Alleria jumped into the Twisting Nether, so she is presumed dead.
Vareesa works for the Alliance and aided in the murder of Sin'Dorei, that are two reasons why they won't be talking any time soon.

Ingame Arator is still in Honor Hold, looking for his parents.

Not to mention they were off whoring around with humans while Sylvanas fought to the last to save her home

[Haven]

So because it wins battles you are allowed to use it?

So Garrosh is a pretty cool guy, i guess?

Yup. At least he was, until all the Divine Bell shenanigans. "Lol I'm mad with power and want to rule the world with my nazi supersoldiers yadda yadda" classic cardboard villain. I like a strong leader which takes no bullshit and breaks opposition. I liked his court in Stonetalon: the whole process of judging, convicting, and carrying out the sentence took 30 seconds and was very serious. Too bad Blizzard's "writer in charge of Garrosh #83" decided to forget about that.

[Kralljin]

Yup. At least he was, until all the Divine Bell shenanigans. "Lol I'm mad with power and want to rule the world with my nazi supersoldiers yadda yadda" classic cardboard villain. I like a strong leader which takes no bullshit and breaks opposition. I liked his court in Stonetalon: the whole process of judging, convicting, and carrying out the sentence took 30 seconds and was very serious. Too bad Blizzard's "writer in charge of Garrosh #83" decided to forget about that.

Technically Garrosh is a serious asshole since Cata, altough Wolfheart was released *after* Cata, it plays during Cata, he captured the young of Magnataur to force their parents to fight for them and enslaved Proto Dragons for the Horde.

And Theramore.

[Icarris]

Source please.

The Plague is the Nuclear Bomb of Warcraft, it is hard to justify the usage of such a terrible weapon.

And the usage was clearly forbidden yet Sylvanas used it because she couldn't bear to lose Gilneas City, which she did in the end regardless of using the plague.

To my knowledge, you help the Forsaken to tighten their grip in Hillsbrad by defeating those guerilla Worgen, defeating some rogue Forsaken and destroy the Stormpike invasion into Hillsbrad.

Those rogue Forsaken are the ones using the plague. From apothecary Lydon:

With the undead outbreak contained, the time has come for Stillwater and his followers to answer for their crimes. Though we averted a tragedy the likes of which has not been seen since the Scourge invaded, we must ensure that such a thing can never happen again. They will all face true death!

Come, <name>! I will have Stillwater's head!

Master Apothecary Lydon says: Warden Stillwater, you are deranged and a threat to our way of life. By authority of the Dark Lady herself, I hereby impose upon you the harshest penalty under Forsaken law - true death.
Master Apothecary Lydon says: That goes for all of you traitorous scum who supported this fool!

I will deliver this head to the Banshee Queen personally. Of course I will make mention of your part in all of this

[Stormdash]

Misses her sisters, but has in no way seen by us looked for Alleria in Outland, tried talking to Vareesa, or contacted any of her bunch of half elf nephews. A real family oriented woman, that.

She's a bit busy to go running off to Outland. As for talking to Vereesa, to what end? Vereesa is a foregone conclusion, the little brat probably couldn't even be made to acknowledge her, even though Sylvanas only is whatever she became in part protecting her and their home.

Where the hell is Arator now anyway? We haven't seen him since he talked about how he was searching for Alleria and Turalyon back in Hellfire Peninsula.

Still lazing around Honor Hold in the unfortunate suspended animation of game time.

[Haven]

Technically Garrosh is a serious asshole since Cata, altough Wolfheart was released *after* Cata, it plays during Cata, he captured the young of Magnataur to force their parents to fight for them and enslaved Proto Dragons for the Horde.

And Theramore.

"Enslaved"? Isn't there a word "tame" for that? Or did I miss the part where they suddenly became self-aware and intelligent, all at once? And as for magnataur, do you feel sorry for them? Because I do not. There isn't a single non-hostile one in the entire world.

And Theramore. We can discuss for quite a long time whether it was a good move or not, but it definitely cut off an Alliance's link to Kalimdor (lore-wise) and killed Rhonin. Think of it. He killed Rhonin. Who knows, maybe he's gonna go after Med'an one day?

[Deleted]

The humans weren't that bad to orcs they kept in camps even after they destroyed Stormwind and raised some of its defenders as undead death knights.

ur actually kidding right? never heard of thrall and the whole gladiator thing?

[Dybia]

ur actually kidding right? never heard of thrall and the whole gladiator thing?

"Oh my god Thrall, you had to fight in the arena after being raised with a human girl that loved and treated you as her own brother, and then had to see her death? That's pretty bad man.

Me I was just tending the fields until these forsaken guys came rolling up and blighted the hell out of the region liquifying my family and friends in the most horribly painful fashion on Azeroth and was then forced into slave labor and ultimately buried up to my neck waiting for a wandering ghoul to get hungry and eat my face off(literally). But you, what you went through was tough man."

"Enslaved"? Isn't there a word "tame" for that? Or did I miss the part where they suddenly became self-aware and intelligent, all at once? And as for magnataur, do you feel sorry for them? Because I do not. There isn't a single non-hostile one in the entire world.

They are intelligent dude. All dragons originated from proto drakes. Just because they don't think on the same level doesn't mean they don't think.

The magnataur? They have had to live in Northrend, one of the most hostile environments on the planet, for their entire existences. Just because they're hostile to us outsiders that came into their homes at about the same time as the cult of the damned started screwing with them doesn't mean we should kidnap their children and hold them hostage and force them to fight for us.