You postpone stuff that you want to do later, because you have more important matters going on.
If you want to keep pushing something back because you don't want it, you should use the word detain, retard or restrain.
So she's not hiding from death, she is just delaying it.
That makes it any better how Kangodo? That just means she knows it'll catch up to her eventually. Between Silverpine Forest and Andorhal we see she's brought in dozens more val'kyr. I don't think she's planning on dying as long as she can get more val'kyr to throw in her place in hell every time she dies. Especially with her reaction to the val'kyr reviving her again in Silverpine.
Most importantly several lines down in the same conversation - "She cared nothing for their fate. "Let them perish!" Sylvanas cried. "I am finished with them!""
However all of this for moot as it doesn't actually tell us anything about her wanting her people saved, just that she disliked Garrosh methods when using her "resources".
After that quote I fail to see how you even attempt to say that she came back for her people at all.
Everything in the story is showing her off as a selfish leader who doesn't care for her and only came back because of her fear of death and has to make excuses because of it.
You also miss off the first line "Sylvanas answered, but not right away. The lurking oblivion filled her with terror. Even now, she felt the tempest rage around her.". So no she didn't want to give into fear, but she damn well did. You can't tell me a character that had a character of steel who then winds up broken when she dies and see's her fate wouldn't make her decision based upon the fear of living in that torment.
Last edited by Scummer; 2013-01-14 at 06:21 PM.
She will become useful again once she is used in conjunction with the dark Ranger hero class to come out some day.
“What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”
-Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011
really liked Sylvanas Windrunner in Wc3 and probable one of Blizzards few characters that have still kept their identity in WoW :P
No, she refers to them as a bulwark; a bastion, a fortress!It's worth noting that she doesn't refer to the Forsaken as a people but as a resource.
That can refer to them becoming a Faction that will stand for thousands of years.
Which is typical behaviour for someone who just committed suicide.Most importantly several lines down in the same conversation - "She cared nothing for their fate. "Let them perish!" Sylvanas cried. "I am finished with them!""
As in: She doesn't want him to throw away their lives.However all of this for moot as it doesn't actually tell us anything about her wanting her people saved, just that she disliked Garrosh methods when using her "resources".
Because people are biased with this "Sylvanas is evil!", which makes sure that everything she does is always explained in the evil way.After that quote I fail to see how you even attempt to say that she came back for her people at all.
She could probably say she loves puppies and people would argue that she loves to eat them.
Sylvanas is a pretty simple character:
She wanted revenge, throwing away Forsaken as if it were tools.
But then she actually started to care about them, she even names them "her people".
Not tools, not the Forsaken, 'HER' people.
And like any obsessed teenage emo-girl she puts on the 'though'-attitude as if she doesn't care about them.
Exactly as she did with her sister! But you don't suddenly start singing the Lament of the Highborne if you don't care.
According to the lore, there are only 4 Val'Kyr left and the lesser ones aren't strong enough to resurrect Sylvanas.
And i've been talking about this a lot recently, the Forsaken especially Sylvanas have a habit of abusing Powers that tend to backfire.
The Plague destroys the Land and anything else it touches, it won't be soon until other forces than just the Alliance will stand against the Forsaken if they continue to use the plague.
The Argent Crusade, Cenarion Circle or Knights of the Ebon Blade will not stand idle and watch how the Forsaken destroy anything with the Plague.
Sylvanas enforced Varimathras under her will, he helped to create the plague and in the end it backfired with the Battle for the Undercity.
Sylvanas ressurected Godfrey, to use him against the Worgen, he thanked her with a bullet in the back.
Now Sylvanas is using the Plague (A product of someone who betrayed her) and doesn't even think of the potential consequences.
Last edited by Kralljin; 2013-01-14 at 06:46 PM.
Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.
Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.
Against the Infinite
It's pretty obvious what is implied by "infinite" - the afterlife.
The quote about her saying she doesn't care if they die pretty much leaves your arguments as moot. This is the problem I've stated before with Sylvanas and the Forsaken, I can understand why people may enjoy playing the villains or bad guys etc etc, but I cannot understand why people feel they need to white wash their actions when they are so clearly selfish and/or wrong. As in this case where she pretty boldly says she doesn't care for her people.
Last edited by Scummer; 2013-01-14 at 06:56 PM.
Without her, the Forsaken would probably be "exterminated" within a few years.
But she still calls them 'her people', which clearly tells us that she does care about them.She is at such an emotional point that she doesn't even care about her own life.I'm not sure what your first response is meant to imply.
If she is in such a state that she would kill herself, what gives you the idea that her words have any meaning?
She felt as if her life had no purpose, her life-work was done.
And just when she almost died, those Val'Kyr came bothering her about some Forsaken..
What she said is a "natural" response in such an event.And that is countered by panic when she finds out what is about to happen to her people.But your second point here is again countered by the same quote. She doesn't care for her people, at least not as a people which is what we're discussing.
Descriptions given by the writer are stronger and more trustworthy than the ramblings of an emotionally unstable Banshee.
And the writer says she does care about them.The quote about her saying she doesn't care if they die pretty much leaves your arguments as moot. This is the problem I've stated before with Sylvanas and the Forsaken, I can understand why people may enjoy playing the villains or bad guys etc etc, but I cannot understand why people feel they need to white wash their actions when they are so clearly selfish and/or wrong. As in this case where she pretty boldly says she doesn't care for her people.
Opinion of the all-knowing-writer overrules direct quotes from Sylvanas. That's basic literature.
If that's also the case the same can be applied to every quote you've given.
Last edited by Scummer; 2013-01-14 at 09:08 PM.
Why does it matter if she cares a bit about forsaken?
I mean how does this help her reputation acroos Azeroth. She still commits the same crimes that we killed Scourge for.
You know Nurgle loves his children,too.
"This isn't real!" Sylvanas announced, her voice echoing in her head and sounding as it had when she had been alive. Were her people really so weak? No—no! Garrosh had all but murdered the best of her troops in his own wasteful campaigns. The Forsaken leadership had been gutted. That was what these visions showed.
That's Sylvanas.. She is caring.
There is no other way to describe those lines except for a woman that sees something she cares about being destroyed.
It's not my problem that you want to believe that the crying of a woman that just killed herself is a well thought and rational response.What hogwash. In that case everything she said in the story isn't true which you know is BS. At that point it's not a story but a bunch of pointless emotional ramblings.
Do you know depressed people?
Do you know people who are suicidal?
Those people are depressed and frustrated, stuff like that is what they yell all the time.
This might be a social breakthrough for some people, but upset people often yell things that they don't mean.
That's often combined with fear, panic or crying.
"This isn't real!" - Why is she refusing to believe that it's real if she doesn't even care about them?When did Kosak say she cared for the Forsaken as a people?
"Were her people really so weak? No—no! Garrosh had all but murdered the best of her troops in his own wasteful campaigns." - Why is she yelling 'No No' when she doesn't care?
"Let them perish!" Sylvanas cried. "I am finished with them!" - Why is she crying if she doesn't care?
All those responses, all that yelling and crying is caused by emotions.
Emotions she has when she thinks of her people.
You're trying to attack her by denying the feelings that ARE presented in the story.You're trying to white wash the story with feelings that aren't presented in the story.
---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 10:17 PM ----------
My faction (Horde) kills Scourge because they attacked us.
Do you really think the Horde gives a shit if some random faction is killing the Alliance? We'd probably help them if they didn't attack us on sight.
Seeing as Sylvanas isn't killing the Horde, it's all fine.
Last edited by Dybia; 2013-01-14 at 09:25 PM.
1. We have no proof that lesser Val'Kyr can do that.And what? You don't think she'd sacrifice hundreds of the lesser val'kyr if that's what it took? Or god forbid try to create more herself from human women?
2. She has no "immortality-deal" with them.
3. We have no proof that she would actually kill hundreds of them.
4. They don't even know how to make Val'Kyr! But it's allright if she wants to test it on humans, they are the enemy anyway.
That a good way of how a guy would look at it.I can think of a way. A greedy little girl seeing her works torn down now that she's gone. A child throwing a fit that someone else isn't playing with her pieces the right way after she's quit the game, so now she wan'ts back in because not playing(i.e. going to hell) isn't fun.
Or as Dybia pointed out her own shock about her work being undone.
But as I continue to mention in the same part of the story we dip into her stating she doesn't care for their fate.
The reason this is getting annoying for myself is that you are providing sources that don't indicate she actually cares for them as a people, meanwhile the paragraph I keep referring specifically says that she doesn't care.
So even if you were to believe what you've quoted as showing she cares (Which is doesn't) it directly conflicts with a later quote, of which you cannot argue in it's context because it's pretty clear. So at this point we have ourselves a horribly written character who contradicts herself in less than a minute.
In either case with this refer to the first response with this quote.
"Let them perish!" Sylvanas cried. "I am finished with them!""
You can't get much clearer than that. The only person here forcing emotions into the story is yourself. As I've pointed out numerous times this quote debunks your entire argument. It's clear and to the point. It doesn't need any false interpretations like the rest of your quotes, it's short and to the point.
If you're only argument against this is that she's emotional then you haven't debunked the quote at all but entire story itself along with your own arguments.
None of your quotes even hint at her caring for them as a people, meanwhile this completely says that she doesn't.
How did Sylvanas feel when her nemesis, Arthas, killed and then reanimated her as an undead? She was pretty miserable no?
So what kind of person does that make her, when she kills and then raises as many humans as she possibly can only in order to swell the ranks of her army?
What does that tell you about those she raises? Are their wills free? Sylvanas hated Arthas with a burning fury for what he did to her, why don't those she has raised feel the same about her? I don't think their minds are free after all. Indeed, the Forsaken as a people are evidence of the huge discrepancy here, they shared Sylvanas'feelings about Arthas to such a degree that they chose her to lead them in their hunt for vengeance.