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  1. #21
    long story short:

    back on cata -> int = healing power and mana; spirit = mana regeneration;
    now on MoP-> int = healing power; spirit = mana regeneration;

    see, healers were double dipping in mana on gear, and the devs had to balance mana pools around it. that leads to 2 aweful effects: insufficient mana at low level gear, and infinite mana at high level gear. the first one is frustrating, while the later is OP.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    long story short:

    back on cata -> int = healing power and mana; spirit = mana regeneration;
    now on MoP-> int = healing power; spirit = mana regeneration;

    see, healers were double dipping in mana on gear, and the devs had to balance mana pools around it. that leads to 2 aweful effects: insufficient mana at low level gear, and infinite mana at high level gear. the first one is frustrating, while the later is OP.
    Not entirely correct.

    In Cataclysm:

    Intellect = Spellpower, Increased Maximum Mana, Mana Regen, Critical Strike Chance
    Spirit = Mana regeneration

    In Mists of Pandaria:

    Intellect = Spellpower, Crit Chance
    Spirit = Mana Regeneration

    The Cataclysm system DID need to be revamped, but unfortunately, spirit is now the only choice a healer has in the current tier if they wish to progress heroics. We've gone from one extreme to the other. Is it still better than the Cataclysm system? Hell yes, but going from stacking only intellect to now only stacking spirit is essentially the same as it was in cataclysm as far as gemming and enchanting is concerned.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    Not entirely correct.

    In Cataclysm:

    Intellect = Spellpower, Increased Maximum Mana, Mana Regen, Critical Strike Chance
    Spirit = Mana regeneration

    In Mists of Pandaria:

    Intellect = Spellpower, Crit Chance
    Spirit = Mana Regeneration
    I said exactly what you said, but more simplifiedly.
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  4. #24
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Yeah, but spirit is intended to be healers' most desired stat, like intellect is for the DPS casters. Blizzard wanted healers to stack spirit in Cataclysm, but intellect was just too powerful. Now they got what they wanted: every healer wants spirit as their highest stat.

  5. #25
    Spirit was always supposed to be the primary healer stat, same as how strength is the primary plate dps stat. The presence of spirit is how they differentiate healer gear from caster dps gear (or try to, anyway). The intellect change was intended to put this issue to bed, not to try to get healers to balance int and spirit on their gear.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    I said exactly what you said, but more simplifiedly.
    You didn't list the mana regen or the crit chance from intellect, and those part of the reason why intellect weighed so much more than spirit did in cata. I felt it was important to include, that's all.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 03:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    Spirit was always supposed to be the primary healer stat, same as how strength is the primary plate dps stat. The presence of spirit is how they differentiate healer gear from caster dps gear (or try to, anyway). The intellect change was intended to put this issue to bed, not to try to get healers to balance int and spirit on their gear.
    But, and I'm quoting Blizzard on this one, just because a piece doesn't have spirit, doesn't mean it isn't for a healer.

    I understand what you are saying, but saying Blizzard wanted Spirit to be a healer's primary stat is also incorrect. If it were, three things would be true:

    1. All healing gear would have spirit on it.
    2. Spirit would be considered a primary stat and therefore would not be reforgable on or off of gear.
    3. They wouldn't have made a fuss about healer's having to choose between intellect and spirit. Because if they wanted spirit to be the primary stat, there would be no choice involved.

  7. #27
    It's easier to balance a constant value.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 04:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    Spirit was always supposed to be the primary healer stat, same as how strength is the primary plate dps stat. The presence of spirit is how they differentiate healer gear from caster dps gear (or try to, anyway). The intellect change was intended to put this issue to bed, not to try to get healers to balance int and spirit on their gear.
    Yeah, that's the worst explanation I've ever heard.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    Every good healer rolls Gnome, 315k mana.
    Even the bad ones. :P

  9. #29
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    I understand what you are saying, but saying Blizzard wanted Spirit to be a healer's primary stat is also incorrect. If it were, three things would be true:

    1. All healing gear would have spirit on it.
    2. Spirit would be considered a primary stat and therefore would not be reforgable on or off of gear.
    3. They wouldn't have made a fuss about healer's having to choose between intellect and spirit. Because if they wanted spirit to be the primary stat, there would be no choice involved.
    I think that ideally spirit would be a primary stat for healers, and they would be completely unlinked from intellect (i.e. intellect increases spell damage and spell crit while spirit increases healing power and mana regen), but that goes right back to the problem Blizzard tried to solve in BC and Wrath with healers not being able to deal meaningful damage. The obvious fix for that, of course, is to roll mana regen into intellect and remove spirit. Unfortunately, spirit is a relic from Classic that Blizzard is so far unwilling to get rid of.

  10. #30
    A lot of overly complex answers here.

    Short answer: They used to make Int give you more mana so it's all you gemmed for. Now you need spirit to a certain point, and then int becomes important past that breakpoint (many raiding healers are beginning to hit that point now in the first tier).

    Trust us, it's much better this way.

  11. #31
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    Because otherwise mana management becomes irrelevant due to overgearing after a tier or two.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    I think that ideally spirit would be a primary stat for healers, and they would be completely unlinked from intellect (i.e. intellect increases spell damage and spell crit while spirit increases healing power and mana regen), but that goes right back to the problem Blizzard tried to solve in BC and Wrath with healers not being able to deal meaningful damage. The obvious fix for that, of course, is to roll mana regen into intellect and remove spirit. Unfortunately, spirit is a relic from Classic that Blizzard is so far unwilling to get rid of.
    You could just remove spirit entirely, make mana regen flat (or maybe scale with haste, like energy?) and make it about being a powerful, efficient healer. Then Mana is just Energy by another name, but it already almost is anyway, and I see nothing wrong with that.
    Last edited by Darmalus; 2013-01-18 at 10:33 PM.

  13. #33
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darmalus View Post
    You could just remove spirit entirely, make mana regen flat (or maybe scale with haste, like energy?) and make it about being a powerful, efficient healer. Then Mana is just Energy by another name, but it already almost is anyway, and I see nothing wrong with that.
    I think it would be interesting to have a static regen amount (or no passive regen) and then have healers use abilities to actively regenerate mana over the course of a fight, similar to the concept of tanks' active defenses. Mistweavers already sort of have this with Mana Tea, but go a step beyond that for something a bit more impressive. Sort of like how Shadow's mana functioned in Cataclysm--they burned through mana fast, but regenned it in big chunks with Shadowfiend and Dark Archangel, to the point where if played properly they'd never run out of mana but if played poorly they'd run out very fast.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    I think it would be interesting to have a static regen amount (or no passive regen) and then have healers use abilities to actively regenerate mana over the course of a fight, similar to the concept of tanks' active defenses. Mistweavers already sort of have this with Mana Tea, but go a step beyond that for something a bit more impressive. Sort of like how Shadow's mana functioned in Cataclysm--they burned through mana fast, but regenned it in big chunks with Shadowfiend and Dark Archangel, to the point where if played properly they'd never run out of mana but if played poorly they'd run out very fast.
    Probably a mix of approaches for different healers/specs, so if a player hated juggling active regen, they could try the passive regen spec. I'm slowly leveling my other healers now to see which one I like best for the same reason (resto druid is OK, but I have nothing to compare it to at 90). I've always hated the limited resource concept that casters were saddled with, I prefer resources that are infinite but require management, and I'm glad wow has been moving in that direction.

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