Why Guild Applications are becoming a thing of the past

[moveth]

I no longer require and application. I require a World of Logs parse. An application can be shit through to sound appealing by anyone with a 4th grade education, but a Parse of you in a raid setting is something entirely different.

[Brakthir]

Application process is pretty important regardless.

[DismalNether]

Just in response to your gripe about long trial periods I agree with how my old GM runs things and that is a 4 week trial period. Now this may seem rather long but it allows a great deal of extra information to appear as opposed to a smaller trial period. Not only do you get a better look at the consistency of attendance and performance you are also able to view how the player will mesh with your group socially which is a huge part of a guild. Also over a 4 week trial period a trial will actually become more familiar and comfortable with the guild and start to feel like a member which gives time for bad habits that would be repressed in a short trial period in which they feel very much under scrutiny to surface.

[Beebeey]

I never said gems. Ever. You've referred to them twice, and I deliberately didn't mention gems when quoting your previous response.

My posts have always referred to commitment and overall expectations. If you expect me to show up to raids 3 nights a week, 80%+ attendance, researched the fights, done my dailies and valor capped every week to buy gear.... but are stuck on normal Feng, then I'm sorry, but the reward you're offering (a spot in your mediocre guild) is not worth my effort. (*note, I'm saying "you" as an expression. I have no idea about you or your guild).

I don't disagree (per se) with everything you've written, but you seem to miss the fundamental point of my responses. Why would I work for Bob at $10/hour when Jim's offering me the same job at $20/hour?

Perhaps you're basing your response from the POV of a Heroic guild? I don't know. But don't underestimate "non raiding" players... many of us are former raiders who grew up, got married and had kids. There's a lot of very skilled players who no longer raids heroics because of IRL commitments and just roll our eyes at what some guilds are expecting when they cant even get past Feng.

You might think you're setting high standards, but the reality is, you're just putting off most applicants. If your high standards were making a difference, you wouldn't still be stuck on 3/6 MV.

Once again, not you in particular, just a general statement. Because most normal guilds I come across are stalled in MV.

This sums it up so well: I've seen a lot of guilds advertising and a good majority of the time it's something like:
"New startup guild - we haven't killed any bosses, but we will soon and will push heroics. We require you to have 490ilvl gear and hard mode experience."

Perhaps I'm just wording this all wrong, since everyone seems to think I'm referring to high-end guilds: I'm not. I would expect that kind of rigorous screening in such applications.

[Harpocrates]

a lot of guilds will believe they require some magical logs or 10/25xSimcrafting players to kill stuff, the truth is they do not. Join guilds that you find easy to deal with/enter and that are good and your enjoyment will be greater than the former

[Lovecrafts]

Ahh...guild applications, because playing a game is serious business and we should highly scrutinize the people we play with. Total rubbish.

[Verain]

Methanar has absolutely destroyed the OP, but I'll go ahead and contribute to any still reading:

We used guild apps for years. We only stopped once it was obvious that we were going to be stuck as a 2x10 guild. The advantages of them are pretty big- it gets rid of people who can't be arsed to fill out a simple form, can't speak, don't give a fuck about others, etc. Back in 25-land, this was a huge concern, as all the best gear dropped from 25s, so every dumbass wanted in on the pie.

The disadvantage is that it's a pain in the ass for everyone involved, and it sucks. But still, overall? Worth it in general.

[Beebeey]

Methanar has absolutely destroyed the OP, but I'll go ahead and contribute to any still reading:

We used guild apps for years. We only stopped once it was obvious that we were going to be stuck as a 2x10 guild. The advantages of them are pretty big- it gets rid of people who can't be arsed to fill out a simple form, can't speak, don't give a fuck about others, etc. Back in 25-land, this was a huge concern, as all the best gear dropped from 25s, so every dumbass wanted in on the pie.

The disadvantage is that it's a pain in the ass for everyone involved, and it sucks. But still, overall? Worth it in general.

He didn't destroy anything: He stated the carbon-copy response to this type of question that has been mulled over and over again over the years. He also misunderstood that I was not referring to high-end guilds. Thanks for that though.

[Otimus]

an 4, 2013 Barberry joined guild Trademark
Dec 28, 2012 Barberry left guild Trademark
Dec 21, 2012 Barberry joined guild Trademark
Dec 17, 2012 Barberry left guild Aspersion
Dec 1, 2012 Barberry joined guild Aspersion
Nov 29, 2012 Barberry left guild Ports rnt Free
Nov 16, 2012 Barberry joined guild Ports rnt Free
Nov 14, 2012 Barberry left guild Topped Off

Looks legit, you totally have an opinion.

And I 100% doubt you did any real hard achievements in a pug. Post some pictures or its bullshit. I've posted all of my achievements publicly in my sig.

Probably take enough interest that you change your gear before logging out if you genuinely want to be in a guild.

If you ever want to advance beyond looking for retard then you should probably prove that you are not infact a retard to the people who would be giving you a chance.

You know, treating strangers like total fucking shit is probably why people have such a low opinion of the WoW community. Just sayin'!

[Resentful]

He didn't destroy anything: He stated the carbon-copy response to this type of question that has been mulled over and over again over the years. He also misunderstood that I was not referring to high-end guilds. Thanks for that though.

In general mid tier guilds any type of guilds of an APP is literally what hes saying doesn't have to be a high end guild, Guilds filter out terrible players whom can't even fill out a simple application.

Not hard

[Deleted]

If you dont care for filling out one application it clearly shows you dont CARE at qall for the guild you join.

[Deleted]

This is something that has been on my mind for a long time. As someone who plays on a large server and someone who has pugged for the majority of my time on WoW, I find this to be one of the biggest issues with the game.

Most players reach a point where they would like to join a guild that is focused on clearing end-game content: After all, if you enjoy raiding, that is the logical next step. However, I find that the "Guild Application" system really does not do a player much justice in terms of screening potentials, and I'll explain why.

First off, I have met many amazing pugs in my WoW time and found numerous others without a home. Many have quit this expansion, because 'guild requirements' have become so rigorous about how much one theory-crafts, instead of actual game play.

I believe there is a time and a place to theory-craft: In fact, I love to do so, but I do not want to go into a two page discussion over one talent in an application for admittance or denial. In fact, if you are interested in finding out how knowledgeable I am about my class, why not just talk to me in-game or via voice communication about it? Actually talk to me, instead of being a snobby elitist that knit-picks everything and making assumptions.

---
Further, I can understand people want to find the right fit for their guild, I really do, but when you make the process so ridiculous, you will end up with eventually unhappy people who will possibly quit.

Another thing that really bothers me?
If you have something like three hard modes down in MV, should you really be so close-minded that you are:

- Unwilling to try raiders that haven't played since Vanilla
- Un-open to the fact that RNG exists and some people who are NOT guilded may have a harder time obtaining specific pieces for their class
- Unwilling to take on players who show potential and are trying to get better at the game

Furthermore, if these players can pug your progression, then perhaps you should give some of those people a shot. The whole third-rate guilds comparing themselves to others like Blood Legion is really annoying. You are a guild looking for decent players, who you can grow and work with. Everyone goes through a learning period: Some get better and some do not. Please remember you also once went through a learning period.

My gender is irrelevant on your application: In fact, whenever I see the gender questions I run, because it usually means automatic assumptions based on this.

Why do some guilds have trial periods that are insanely long? I can denote if someone is a decent raider within a few raids: I don't understand the point of this, or forcing people to crap out a ton of gold on repairs, just because it takes so long for a decision to be made.

Also, you can decline an application in a pious manner: You don't have to be a complete jerk about it. You see, us mid-grade players are the ones most likely to improve to a much higher potential: Yet, that cannot happen when you make requirements so ridiculous.

Raid with these people a few times and maybe you'll catch onto something here: People who do have the capability to excel given the chance. Yet, that chance doesn't come.

I'm OK with pugging the amount of hard-modes your guild boasts in the meantime. If people like me can do it with complete strangers, I'm pretty sure they would do 100x better with guild mates. This and many other reasons I feel are part of the reason so many mid-grade players are leaving the game.

Flowers grow with water and sunshine: Drowning them in water stifles potential growth and serves no purpose other than killing the plant.

On that note:

What do you hate about guild applications and the whole process?

Did it ever occur to you that you could be the one to start a conversation with the guild you're interested in joining? whisper one of their officers asking about how the guild functions and whatnot and get some class related stuff in there too.

[Henako]

I've always liked looking through guild recruitment forums and seeing people's UI's. You can learn a lot about a player by his UI. Beyond that, talking to someone on skype will get you a more accurate representation of who they are and what they can do, but an app can get the front-end out of the way with things like raid experience.

[alucardtnuoc]

I don't app to guilds, i talk to people or get recruited by them.

I've healed a random heroic on my pally in cata, and got recruited into a heroic firelands progression guild who was pushing for realm first.... All through doing a heroic dungeon, transferd servers and everything.

[Daedius]

Plenty of guilds using application forms - no idea where you're coming about saying it's "a thing of the past", it's common practise. If you don't want to apply for a guild that uses a form, np - move on and find another guild that doesn't.

But it's the Guild Master's decision for using a form or not.

[Beebeey]

In general mid tier guilds any type of guilds of an APP is literally what hes saying doesn't have to be a high end guild, Guilds filter out terrible players whom can't even fill out a simple application.

Not hard

Try re-reading my post and show me where I said mid-grade guild in it? I actually didn't even complain about the application itself - you turned the post into that. I said, it's a thing of the past as I watch more and more 10m guilds just skip the b/s and try people as is.

[Deleted]

Hey Barberry.

Approach it from a job angle.

Write a "WoW resume" and use this when you apply.

Just reuse your resume. You can adapt it a little bit.

Anyone with a clue would be like "someone who understands to put effort, yet is also efficient; +1".

Consider what can I do for you, and what can you do for me.

Do they really need a hunter? Can you play all specs? What is your experience on your hunter? And so on, and so forth.

Remember no job, hobby, or guild is permanent. But it is pointless to invest in someone who leaves after a few months ("job hopper").

It may take you various jobs or guilds till you find the one you like. Many applications too till you find the trial you're looking for.

Even though a guild isn't top and doesn't have good progression they still want someone who's compatible with the guild. Someone who fits in. For some guilds, this is more important than the player performance. Some guilds don't raid much, have unstable roster, yet have high standards. It isn't mutually exclusive.

If they saw your resume and are interested in an interview, go for that, and have a trial. A trial is as much for you a trial as the guild is trialing for you.

Finally, keep in mind progression doesn't tell everything about a guild's quality. It really doesn't. The time they spend and the goal of the guild tells a lot as well. There are some guilds who barely raid yet they progress the same as a bunch of no life clowns who raid 20 hours a week wiping endless.

I myself would for example be interested (to study, investigate, and maybe join) in a guild who want to make it the goal to put the least, minimal effort and playtime while reaching the highest achievable goal. Not by slacking, but by being efficient with time, and by skipping the mindless grinds Blizzard implemented. I know there are guilds like this out there.

PS: Would like to add WoL is akin to a reference

[Cazrael]

Barberry, in all honesty, I see what you are saying, but the fact of the matter is, if someone cannot fill out an application to a guild they want to join, then all that says to me is, "I'm not dedicated enough to do the small things." So why would a guild trust you to stay during progression when stuff gets difficult and 200+ wipes are put into a boss, if you will not even take 10-15 minutes to answer a few simple questions. The app process is not an assessment of just your skill, it is more an assessment of your character as a player, and your ability to play well. No guild, will take accept an app from someone who takes no time with their app and doesn't care about his answers, and has really good logs, purely because it is a gamble. Whose to say that if they accept, that the new recruit won't just leave after he gets a few pieces of loot, and a few chieves? Any time a recruit is brought into a guild, the guild is at risk of loss of resources, be it gear or guild funds for repairs. And because of that being an issue in many guilds past, it has become one of the reasons why the trial process was made.

Now because we have known each other for a while, I'm confident that you know what I have said is no reflection of your actions or your character, but a mere statement of what I have come to realize when I have applied to guilds.

[blackhammer99]

That's like saying eventually jobs won't want an application process.
It is a necessary piece of syntax that puts you between the guild and the outside.
An "application" doesn't need to be that selective, in fact, it can be quite bare-bones, but any serious guild will always require one.
Otherwise, they will just be accepting anyone and everyone - including kids who can't even raid the times they say they can.

[Holyshnikies]

I think the saddest part of all of this is people would rather fill out an application to raid for a guild on a video game rather than fill out an application for a real life job.

On another note. - Guild Applications are pointless. People need to stop taking this game so seriously and rather just enjoy playing with others.

Kinda off topic - I have a 481 ilvl mostly all from LFR. When I go to pug stuff, I generally do more damage than their own guildies who are the same ilvl if not higher. Also not dieing in dumb crap. I think being forced to be in a guild to raid is upsetting. I dont want to be tied down 2-3 nights a week. If im on and I got time to kill, Ill look for a raid. But id rather not fill out a long 20 minute video game application for a short answer yes or no or then to proceed getting into ventrilo after that to talk for 20 minutes about my past guilds and experience only to be put on a waiting list.