Page 32 of 33 FirstFirst ...
22
30
31
32
33
LastLast
  1. #621
    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    I generally discover that there are mistakes to call later, when I already found another guild and met some people that I was previously applying to in some random groups. Guess what? I'm calling pretty much anyone on mistakes in such groups, because encounter won't succeed without people fixing it. It is just fun to make a mental note while at it "oh, isn't that guy who just jumped down on Elegon from that guild that asked full T11-T13 heroic kills in app I've seen last month?"

    You must've had experience with some pretty shitty jobs. McDonalds? Store clerk or waiter? Because in most highly competitive industries that actually require a brain, being able to accurately analyze what recruiting tech guy tells you about how things generally work in company and point problems is that is instant hire ticket. People LOVE when someone have good insight.

    It seems to me that you're follower of "don't be smart, be obedient" way and that's pretty much what applications is all about. No wonder you support them.
    Do you not understand what an analogy is? Being obedient doesn't mean you are dumb, as you imply. Its not a one or the other type of deal. If you can't be obedient and follow simple instructions, no, good guilds will not want you. You seem to have the same attitude problem the OP does: "I'm too good to fill these out, and jump through a guilds hoops"
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  2. #622
    Quote Originally Posted by Theendgamelv3 View Post
    What if that Shadow Priest is your best dps?
    Get a competent lock in your raid team. Kidding aside, yeah, of course this also affects such choice. But right now my example is pretty good since shadow priest aren't that dandy: at least one of the other multiDoTers are always better, except for Elegon. They're esp not dandy in 10m HoR so the spriest better be alright with playing disc, holy, bench, alt, getting carried.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    [...]

    Or to further the job interview analogy, would you call the interviewer out on some possible bad work you are aware of him doing stating you can do it better? You can be as right as you want but very few will be happy to say that you looked promising when you basically threatened their own position.

    [...]
    This kind of stuff I can only imagine in some kind of comedy. "You're hired!", "So we can you start?". Actually I'd swear I've seen something like this in a comedy. Can't envision or recall it though.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-15 at 01:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Do you not understand what an analogy is? Being obedient doesn't mean you are dumb, as you imply. Its not a one or the other type of deal. If you can't be obedient and follow simple instructions, no, good guilds will not want you. You seem to have the same attitude problem the OP does: "I'm too good to fill these out, and jump through a guilds hoops"
    The point is indeed sometimes it is better to shut up and not point out something unfair or something you disagree with. Sometimes it is better to comply for the greater good, because by not complying you're further away from home.

    E.g. if a cop asks me for my ID and I don't see why, I don't want to show him, but I will anyway because I just [EDIT: don't] want to get into some kind of argument and just want to move on. YMMV.
    Last edited by lolalola; 2013-01-15 at 12:28 PM.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  3. #623
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    6,969
    It seems to me that you're follower of "don't be smart, be obedient" way and that's pretty much what applications is all about. No wonder you support them
    There's a difference between being smart and shooting yourself in the foot. Your time to be smart is when you are IN the guild. That is your time to tell them what they are doing wrong so they can improve. As for shitty jobs? It's just the reality of the situation. Sucking up is a natural part of life and I wouldn't have got my current job if I said "Yeah I think your website looks tacky and you should change this and that, which is why you should hire me" to the IT-guy interviewer. Maybe some other IT guy interviewer would agree but he had just redesigned this site and liked it. Now I'm part of the company (admittedly that IT guy isn't even around anymore!) I have a lot more say in what goes on, my opinion is valued from day 1 of being in here, just like in a guild.

    It's about knowing when to speak and to pick your battles. It's a good thing for people to learn in a video game where repercussions are minimal, while we're on the subject.

  4. #624
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Do you not understand what an analogy is? Being obedient doesn't mean you are dumb, as you imply. Its not a one or the other type of deal. If you can't be obedient and follow simple instructions, no, good guilds will not want you. You seem to have the same attitude problem the OP does: "I'm too good to fill these out, and jump through a guilds hoops"
    How's that a problem? I never ever claim being master of everything, but there's seval things that I know that I excel at. When I have confidence in my words, I will complain/point at mistakes and if people chose to not listen I'll say "screw that" and move to greener pastures. This attitude so far gave me 15+ years of job and salary of more than ten times country's average. This attitude in WoW, where I confident in my ability to quickly learn and understand logic behind mechanics, gave me heroic kills in that T11, that thread above calls "overtuned" when my guild back then accepted me in heroic dungeon blues and unpopular back them demo warlock spec, because I outdamaged on test dungeon run guild's own damagers. Can you simply imagine for a moment than yes, people CAN be good players without all this sucking up/following orders shit? Actually, open mind and thinking with your own brain makes you better player, than just being order-following drone.

  5. #625
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    6,969
    I'm sure you being such the go-getter was the reason you landed your job (and you got that job immediately did you?) and not any previous experience / grades / connections / pure dumb luck.

    Plenty of people try being over-confident on their interviews and showing off. There's a reason it isn't recommended.

  6. #626
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    East Coast USA
    Posts
    3,543
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    I have never filled out an App, I have just gotten into guilds via friends and server Rep. Apps are BS and not a true test of a player, neither are logs IMO. But then again I have no interest in ever doing Heroic Modes, why do Heroic when Normal is the same thing. I play the game to enjoy it with friends and could care less if I was just doing LFR or Heroics.
    The cry of the so so player. They are definitely not the same or they would not be heroic.





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  7. #627
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    I'm sure you being such the go-getter was the reason you landed your job (and you got that job immediately did you?) and not any previous experience / grades / connections / pure dumb luck.
    Well, maybe. Yes, so far I always got new job within a week of starting search. I don't think I can put in dumb luck seeing that it goes that way every time. For the record I have no official education (yes, you've read that right, no university), no connections as I've moved from my home city and while all my jobs were in IT, pretty much each new one was in somewhat different field, so I can't even claim any specialized IT experience.

    While remembering that, I'm starting to think that this is indeed a good analogy with guilds and their requirements. In my searches I did visit several companies that reeked of mediocrity: tight small rooms with middle+ aged women shuffling papers around. Those generally had strictest forms and policies and offered lowest salaries. Many guilds are exactly like that.

  8. #628
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    6,969
    What you consider specialized experience and others see it as is different (something we can't really bring over in the analogy unfortunately) but yes I agree there are some mediocre guilds with extremely right restrictions. There are still very few good/outstanding guilds (by progress standards) that avoid use of a screening process. How many of these jobs did you call out the work of the person (or people) conducting the interview? It's one thing to say to some executive that this thing an employee did of theirs could be employed, it's another to say that their own work could be improved. You are harming their ego before you even have your fit in the door at that point.

  9. #629
    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    How's that a problem? I never ever claim being master of everything, but there's seval things that I know that I excel at. When I have confidence in my words, I will complain/point at mistakes and if people chose to not listen I'll say "screw that" and move to greener pastures. This attitude so far gave me 15+ years of job and salary of more than ten times country's average. This attitude in WoW, where I confident in my ability to quickly learn and understand logic behind mechanics, gave me heroic kills in that T11, that thread above calls "overtuned" when my guild back then accepted me in heroic dungeon blues and unpopular back them demo warlock spec, because I outdamaged on test dungeon run guild's own damagers. Can you simply imagine for a moment than yes, people CAN be good players without all this sucking up/following orders shit? Actually, open mind and thinking with your own brain makes you better player, than just being order-following drone.
    You are again making it either a obedient/intelligence decision. You can be both. Being obedient is just being respectful to your guild. You filled out that work application and did what your prospective employers wanted right? I doubt you walked into their offices, wearing only sweatpants and said "Hey bitches, give me a job, I'm a rebel and a badass."

    Sorry. You're being very over dramatic. Simply filling out a simple 15 minute guild app doesn;t make you a brainless WoW drone. It doesn't mean you are sucking up.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  10. #630
    I think guild applications are just like job applications. If you don't want the job, don't fill out the app. Most people who are offended by the idea of a guild app are probably not so great under pressure and are afraid of failing the approval process. This, in and of iteself, is the purpose for an app in some guilds. They want people who know how good they are and are not afraid to step up and prove it.

    For me, personally, I've only ever filled out one app, and I was accepted. The guild, however, already had its core teams and the rest of us felt more like numbers waiting to be called. So, I left that guild and moved into the one I am with now.

    Applications are not a bad thing, just a scary thing for some people. People who fear rejection, or simply cannot handle it. It's ok if you are this type of person. You just need to understand that some clubs have rules, and one of those rules might be an application. It is their right to use the process as much as it is your right to not fill out the app.

    It's all about preference. You want a guild without an app process? There are plenty out there, or you can even roll one for yourself. Easy stuff

  11. #631
    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    Well, maybe. Yes, so far I always got new job within a week of starting search. I don't think I can put in dumb luck seeing that it goes that way every time. For the record I have no official education (yes, you've read that right, no university), no connections as I've moved from my home city and while all my jobs were in IT, pretty much each new one was in somewhat different field, so I can't even claim any specialized IT experience.

    While remembering that, I'm starting to think that this is indeed a good analogy with guilds and their requirements. In my searches I did visit several companies that reeked of mediocrity: tight small rooms with middle+ aged women shuffling papers around. Those generally had strictest forms and policies and offered lowest salaries. Many guilds are exactly like that.
    Yeah, heard that one before, but he started his career by starting his own company as internet entrepreneur in 1993. Now that was a good time to start your own ISP.

    Look, you're a tiny lil' minority. Most people wouldn't be hired if they wouldn't have the required eduction (too much education can also be a problem tho). It could be your personality or your attitude. Either way, for the rest of the world if you don't have the education you need experience/references or you won't get hired. Or connections/luck.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  12. #632
    Quote Originally Posted by Methanar View Post
    an 4, 2013 Barberry joined guild Trademark
    Dec 28, 2012 Barberry left guild Trademark
    Dec 21, 2012 Barberry joined guild Trademark
    Dec 17, 2012 Barberry left guild Aspersion
    Dec 1, 2012 Barberry joined guild Aspersion
    Nov 29, 2012 Barberry left guild Ports rnt Free
    Nov 16, 2012 Barberry joined guild Ports rnt Free
    Nov 14, 2012 Barberry left guild Topped Off

    Looks legit, you totally have an opinion.

    And I 100% doubt you did any real hard achievements in a pug. Post some pictures or its bullshit. I've posted all of my achievements publicly in my sig.

    Probably take enough interest that you change your gear before logging out if you genuinely want to be in a guild.

    If you ever want to advance beyond looking for retard then you should probably prove that you are not infact a retard to the people who would be giving you a chance.

    If an application conveys a horrible attitude and behavior such as yours so I can keep a group of people sheltered from those like yourself, I am all for them.
    Quote Originally Posted by diddle View Post
    I am a liberal, I vote democrat. That doesn't mean I agree with the ludicrously naive belief that a full-time job entitles one to the concept they should be able to entirely support themself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nostop it View Post
    Cooking is a skill? In wow maybe.

  13. #633
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    You are again making it either a obedient/intelligence decision. You can be both. Being obedient is just being respectful to your guild. You filled out that work application and did what your prospective employers wanted right? I doubt you walked into their offices, wearing only sweatpants and said "Hey bitches, give me a job, I'm a rebel and a badass."
    I'm not exactly complaining about applications there (I'm not OP, BTW), I'm just agreeing with view expressed in this thread several times that many guilds have overcomplicated applications/requirements with many points on those often being hardly relevant to performance at all.

  14. #634
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Stop screaming Elitism all the time... using apps =/= elitism.
    Where I said that using apps was wrong or elitist? I'm talking about the way people look at your apply.

  15. #635
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,267
    Quote Originally Posted by Barberry View Post
    Melebris
    Looking at your logs, why dont you use Arcane Shot like at all? For example your Blade Lord Normal Kill you linked was 7:39 seconds long and you used Arcane Shot 7 times for a total of 278,433 damage, where our Heroic Blade Lord kill was 12 seconds shorter and I used Arcane Shot 94 times for a total of 4,433,714 damage. As I look at your other kills its the same story, you have sub 10 Arcane Shots across an entire fight when you should actually be doing 10 times that many in a fight. This tells me that you don't really understand shot priority, or the fact that focus capping is very very bad. What do you use to keep from focus capping?

    Barberry
    I do understand shot priority: Which is why I've been weaning myself off of ArS usage. Part of the reason for this, is because I was pumping out way too many ArS shots before and in turn losing out on KC's which in turn was hurting my set bonus.

    Last week is really the first time I've gone cold turkey over the whole thing, and I did notice that I wasn't focus capping as much as I expected I would be. I do understand ArS's role in preventing focus capping, but from what I understand it's also filler priority. I find the loss of KC's due to overuse to be a much bigger problem, so I have worked on taking steps to fix said problem.

    Also, we didn't do normal last week: These logs should be from Heroic Blade Lord. :/

    Melebris
    Meant Heroic, not Normal. Anyways, what are you using to stop from focus capping during CD usage? Also, here's a link to one of the top Hunters in the world doing Heroic Blade Lord. Click on the damage done by spell and you'll see Arcane Shot doing 21.6% of his personal damage and he used it 88 times in a 6:52 long fight. Arcane might be a "filler shot" but filler doesn't mean you just don't use it.

    Barberry
    Yea, I understand. It was probably a bad idea to begin with


    One purpose a guild application serves is that you can use it to ask the applicant some questions, and see how they respond. Clearly your responses were beneficial to the guild in realizing why you should be declined.

    For one, you didn't answer his question: What do you use to track your focus?

    That alone proved, by your own virtue, that you don't belong in a good guild.

  16. #636
    Uh, I don't know what you're reading, but he never asked what she uses to track focus.

  17. #637
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    6,969
    Quote Originally Posted by PetersenIII View Post
    Uh, I don't know what you're reading, but he never asked what she uses to track focus.
    I've seen the phrase in one of the quotes also, unless it's been deleted check out the full log between those 2 somewhere in the thread. It's implied in that post there but not explicitly mentioned

  18. #638
    Herald of the Titans Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Pebbleton Family Castle.
    Posts
    2,939
    Because if i wanted to apply for something, that'd be a job.
    Not a game.

  19. #639
    Playing a game is not a job and is supposed to be fun, but if you aren't serious enough to fill out a 2-3min app, you aren't serious enough for me to bring you to my Operations.

    People whisper me all the time while I am trying to lead our Ops, and I politely tell them "hey I am kinda busy right now, but here is our website, have a look and if you are interested feel free to fill out an app, thats the best way for us to get to know you quickly", and no one has ever had a problem with it.
    WoW having more subs than SWTOR is the same thing as Justin Bieber having more youtube plays than Tupac. Just because its more popular doesn't mean its good.
    Warcraft Lore has gone from one of the most vast and interesting stories in all of gaming to a bad Thrall Fanfic by Chris Metzen.
    SWTOR Referral link: http://www.swtor.com/r/2MpjV9 7 free days and other free stuff.

  20. #640
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    East Coast USA
    Posts
    3,543
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pebbleton View Post
    Because if i wanted to apply for something, that'd be a job.
    Not a game.
    Yep. And if you want to "win" the game you play with others that have the skills to "win". And guess what? They already know this so wish to reduce the number of fail players in thier group by some form of vetting process, an application being one choice.





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •