1. #1
    Mechagnome the9tail's Avatar
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    Question Fistweaver Mana Issues

    With 5.2 has anyone else ran into mana issues fistweaving?

    It was my understanding part of the shake-up was to fix mana issues, but now all I am seeing is if you accidentally jab an extra time you just go oom faster and you can't really shake up your rotation with ReM without even more mana issues. Back in 5.1 I could use ReM on CD and now it seems like a waste of mana because it doesn't proc muscle memory.

    Anyone out there not going oom? And if so how much spirit, Ascension/Power Strikes, and what rotation are you using?
    Last edited by the9tail; 2013-03-16 at 03:12 PM.

  2. #2
    I find the same but I think the issue is if you could cast rem on cd then fistweaving would be too strong. I also play a disc priest who does lot of atonement healing and my monk in worse gear easily does more dps but less healing on same fights.

  3. #3
    I fistweave full time.

    I find the soft spot for me is 8k spirit before raid buffs. I flask for Int and eat int food.

    My usual rotation is:

    Chi Wave on CD
    Renewing Mist on CD
    Blackout Kick for Serpent Zeal uptime
    Jab --> Tiger Palm spam
    Mana Tea on CD

    With so I'm nearly mana neutral.

    But consider that except FREE Soothing Mist, Life Cocoon, Revival and Xuen I barely use anything else. Just with a jab +jab + uplift you will see a good chunk of your mana say goodbye.

  4. #4
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    I think you are supposed to be having mana issues. GC said you shouldn't consider using ReM on cd if you are fistweaving.

  5. #5
    I fistweave in throne of the thunder, while throwing out surging mists/ReM on cd/sometimes an extra jab to uplift and I finish fights with about 30% mana left and 10+ stacks of mana tea.

    It would help if you listed your current gear level.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vixene View Post
    It would help if you listed your current gear level.
    Or your own Vixene, or logs.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    I think you are supposed to be having mana issues. GC said you shouldn't consider using ReM on cd if you are fistweaving.
    He said the opposite, in fact it's why ReM's cost was nerfed before the patch went live. Also, I get this and I'm 507 item level at the minute. It's absolutely brutal to fistweave unless you can cleave 3 targets with SCK.
    old mistweaver probably still better than u

  8. #8
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    He said the opposite, in fact it's why ReM's cost was nerfed before the patch went live. Also, I get this and I'm 507 item level at the minute. It's absolutely brutal to fistweave unless you can cleave 3 targets with SCK.
    I assume you're thinking of this post? PTR Class and Set Bonus Issues, Part III. The important part for us is:

    "- Renewing Mist - mana cost reduced 10% The mana changes were to help less well geared healers."

    Doesn't say anything about fistweaving there.

    Just went through all of GCs forums posts. Either the item I was thinking were they said you shouldn't be ReM while fistweaving was on his twitter or it was another blue like Bashiok.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    I assume you're thinking of this post? PTR Class and Set Bonus Issues, Part III. The important part for us is:

    "- Renewing Mist - mana cost reduced 10% The mana changes were to help less well geared healers."

    Doesn't say anything about fistweaving there.

    Just went through all of GCs forums posts. Either the item I was thinking were they said you shouldn't be ReM while fistweaving was on his twitter or it was another blue like Bashiok.
    You can't really hold that change ceteris paribus, the only other changes were to fistweaving so I think it's safe to assume they knew fistweaving was mana intensive.

    I also recall GC/Blue Post mentioning part of MM interaction with BoK was to dump chi from EH/ReM casts.
    old mistweaver probably still better than u

  10. #10
    What in the world are you people on about? No one ever said anything about not using ReM while Fistweaving, and the intent was never to make Fistweaving mana consumption any lighter or heavier than it should have been after the original Jab nerf (the one that was supposed to make it 11,700 mana). Hell, if you have Ascension, fistweavings costs LESS mana than it did before 5.2. What they nerfed was keeping SZ up while healing regularly and using Jab for Uplift, they didn't really nerf anything else regarding fistweaving abilities.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    What in the world are you people on about? No one ever said anything about not using ReM while Fistweaving, and the intent was never to make Fistweaving mana consumption any lighter or heavier than it should have been after the original Jab nerf (the one that was supposed to make it 11,700 mana). Hell, if you have Ascension, fistweavings costs LESS mana than it did before 5.2. What they nerfed was keeping SZ up while healing regularly and using Jab for Uplift, they didn't really nerf anything else regarding fistweaving abilities.
    Which had it went live we would have seen this problem a lot earlier.
    old mistweaver probably still better than u

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    Or your own Vixene, or logs.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...n%C3%A8/simple If you want to see my armory?

    But i'm not looking for advice, offering to help the OP with what he needs but it's not possible to see without knowing his gear.

  13. #13
    Mechagnome the9tail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blasting View Post
    Jab --> Tiger Palm spam
    This is what I was really wondering, people type this alot in reference to fistweaving - are people meaning they are literally spamming jab-TP-jab-TP-jab?

    ----------------------

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Knuckle/simple
    My gear is mainly RF (490), what can I say my guild imploded and finding a new guild that fits my availability is hard at the moment for me.

    But really its a moot point. I work on a simple priority when I am fistweaving at the moment. (not including situational spells)

    Chi Wave
    Mana Tea
    Muscle Memory -> Tiger Palm to maintain ArmPen buff
    Muscle Memory -> Blackout Kick
    Expel Harm
    Jab

    Expel Harm was a recent addition since its mana cost < jab and would ultimately reduce the cost of Blackout Kick.
    I have specced Ascension to increase the mana returns from Mana Tea.
    I gem/reforge with the usual priority of int>spirit>crit>haste,zeromastery

    ----------------------

    So I ask, anyone doing anything different? Adding anything, neglecting anything?

  14. #14
    Why would you take Chi Wave in a raid environment? It's completely awful for healing now, even Zen Sphere does comparable single target healing if you don't count the aoe.

    Fistweaving now means using Muscle Memory (whether via Jab or SCK) into BoK to keep SZ up, and then spamming Jab/TP. There's no reason to use Expel Harm during that unless you plan on using the chi for Uplift, as BoK does the same damage as TP does on a single target. You should keep ReM up, but you'll quickly find yourself having to dump chi by repeatedly going Jab --> BoK or using unneeded Uplifts. I'd wager that people having fistweaving mana problems are likely just not doing it right. It's not very good healing or damage, but it's definitely not expensive.

  15. #15
    Keeping renewing mist on cd provides a lot of healing just by itself. Expel Harm is also worth using, simply because it is so cheap, and more BoK's mean more mana tea stacks banked for when you need them.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Why would you take Chi Wave in a raid environment? It's completely awful for healing now, even Zen Sphere does comparable single target healing if you don't count the aoe.
    I don't know for your Zen Sphere, but mine ticks for ~6120 (for a total of ~49k healing), whereas my Chi Wave bounces for 30.5k (for a total of 122k healing).
    Sure, ZS has a lower CD than Chi Wave... but it's definately not doing "comparable single target healing" (since you can't put both of them on the same target) to Chi Wave, more like 53%.

    Also, Chi Wave delivers it's healing in a much shorter timeframe compared to Zen Sphere... comparing these two is like comparing apples to oranges, they simply don't fit the same role.
    Last edited by ccKep; 2013-03-17 at 11:25 AM. Reason: Typo

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by shotz View Post
    Keeping renewing mist on cd provides a lot of healing just by itself. Expel Harm is also worth using, simply because it is so cheap, and more BoK's mean more mana tea stacks banked for when you need them.
    That's not how Mana Tea works. There is no spell Mistweavers have the provides a mana gain from generating chi. Unless you're riding at 100% mana, using a spell purely to turn it into Mana Tea is a waste of mana. Even in the absolute best case scenario (100% crit and Ascension), one chi will only return 6,900 mana, which is less than the cost of Expel Harm, our cheapest mana to chi spell.

    As for Chi Wave, I consider the 200k healing provided by a Zen Sphere explosion plus 50k from its HoT to be much more useful than a meager 120k healing on a random target, and Zen Sphere only has 66% of the CD. That aside, it is somewhat hard to compare the two, but then you can just look at Chi Burst healing 6 people for 80k and realize how silly Chi Wave is.

  18. #18
    Well, Chi Wave do the most single target dps. I used it on Council kill, just because my current guild is really casual and we barely managed to kill Sul before the empowerment only with 2 tanks + 6 dps + 1 healer + 1 fistweaver setup. I did about 60k dps and 60k hps, Priest was at 100k or even 110k hps.

    So, Chi Wave has its uses, but not for healing purposes.

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