1. #1

    Brewmaster as a rbg fc?

    Who here has tried it? I like my monk a lot and its the only class I want to focus on. I am currently a mistweaver but I am constantly seeing people looking for a FC. How horrible are brewmasters? From the looks of it we have a lot of utility and as a mistweaver im almost impossible to catch. I read that if a brewmaster monk gets stunned hes pretty much done for. Hopefully that will change in 5.2 with our new brew =)

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral Cjeska's Avatar
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    Brewmasters have the lowest hp and the main problem, as you already mentioned, are stuns. The new spell doesn't change that, because you will be facing more than just one opponent with a stun. If you just want to get the weekly cap than go ahead, but I doubt that any group that actually wants to get a higher rating is willing to take you with them (as a fc). Especially when you could be a healer and twice as valuable to them.

  3. #3
    FC as Brewmaster is a 50 / 50 thing. In WSG you are strong but you get rolled over against competent teams in Twin Peaks. You should sell yourself more being on the off-roles when you get a BG that doesn't require a FC. Like my WW mainspec, I am capable of turning the tides in Kotmogu and Silvershard, to some extend EoTS too.

  4. #4
    Put it this way, how effective are you with an entire offensive team training you? Brewmasters are dependent on shuffle in order to reduce damage. They must keep that buff up at all times. Now imagine you can't always be attacking, either you are getting stunned, the enemy has a high avoidance CDs up, or even there simply is no melee on you so you cant get to any enemies. Not only can you not keep shuffle up (causing you to take a rather substantial amount of extra damage), you also cannot get enough chi to reliably cleanse your stagger. All of this on top of the fact that you have less armor and less health than other tanks.

    EDIT; Also no heroic leap for easy flag caps. Though transcendence I imagine would be really useful.
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  5. #5
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cjeska View Post
    Brewmasters have the lowest hp and the main problem, as you already mentioned, are stuns. The new spell doesn't change that, because you will be facing more than just one opponent with a stun. If you just want to get the weekly cap than go ahead, but I doubt that any group that actually wants to get a higher rating is willing to take you with them (as a fc). Especially when you could be a healer and twice as valuable to them.
    Warriors have the lowest HP, actually. Brewmasters have about the same amount as a bear. Warriors are one of the better flag carriers due to their control and mobility, NOT their HP pool. Finally, BM monks have about the same number of options in a stun as Druids/Warriors.

    As a Bremmaster, you are actually pretty decent. You have the ability to easily root and interupt targets, Roll is amazing for mobility. Clash, Paralysis, Disable, Spear Hand Strike, and the stun talent all make Brewmasters good choices for FC, not to mention Guard, spammable Expel Harm, the anti-magic talent, and a number of others. A good Brewmaster is a very viable choice for FC.

    Remember, for FC, its not the health you have- its your mobility and your ability to control targets, and mitigate burst. Brewmasters have excellent ability to control targets, although it can be tricky to use, can easily mitigate magic burst, and have the ability to "spread" physical burst out.

    Finally, the new spell DOES change stuns. The ability to trinket a stun, and have all stuns after that reduced by 60% is amazing. For instance..

    You get hit by a 6 second stun. You use the spell- next comes a 5 second stun, it would be 2.5 seconds with DR, now its only, like, .1 seconds. The third stun would come in at around 1 second. There is only one 8 second stun- combat rogues. There are a small number of 6 second stuns- Kidney Shot, Fist of Justice (Which is dispellable)... I think thats it. Most stuns are 5, or 4 second stuns. But, in a stun chain, the first stun is the most dangerous- the new cooldown means that, once every 2 mins, you dont have to worry about the first AND the second stun. Since Stuns, and Fears are the only thing really dangerous to a FC, being able to "trinket" out of them is extremely awesome. And, for a FC, small windows are what really matter. If they can't get you down in a single burst, they won't be able to get you down at all IF your team is good (And if your team sucks, it doesn't matter WHAT you do, majority of the time, you will loose).

    Finally, the ONLY class with a similar cooldown is DKs, and everyone knows that DKs aren't the best carrier due to low mobility and control, even though they have really high survivability, and are hard to control.

    Remeber, for a FC, Mobility>Control>Ability to survive burst>ability to survive sustained. If you can't be locked down, you won't need to be able to survive a burst. If you can lock down others, you will greatly lessen the amount of damage you take from burst. If you can't do both, you need to be able to survive burst. If you can't survive burst, you have no business being the Flag Carrier.
    Last edited by Raugnaut; 2013-01-14 at 04:43 AM.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Warriors have the lowest HP, actually. Brewmasters have about the same amount as a bear. Warriors are one of the better flag carriers due to their control and mobility, NOT their HP pool. Finally, BM monks have about the same number of options in a stun as Druids/Warriors.

    As a Bremmaster, you are actually pretty decent. You have the ability to easily root and interupt targets, Roll is amazing for mobility. Clash, Paralysis, Disable, Spear Hand Strike, and the stun talent all make Brewmasters good choices for FC, not to mention Guard, spammable Expel Harm, the anti-magic talent, and a number of others. A good Brewmaster is a very viable choice for FC.

    Remember, for FC, its not the health you have- its your mobility and your ability to control targets, and mitigate burst. Brewmasters have excellent ability to control targets, although it can be tricky to use, can easily mitigate magic burst, and have the ability to "spread" physical burst out.

    Finally, the new spell DOES change stuns. The ability to trinket a stun, and have all stuns after that reduced by 60% is amazing. For instance..

    You get hit by a 6 second stun. You use the spell- next comes a 5 second stun, it would be 2.5 seconds with DR, now its only, like, .1 seconds. The third stun would come in at around 1 second. There is only one 8 second stun- combat rogues. There are a small number of 6 second stuns- Kidney Shot, Fist of Justice (Which is dispellable)... I think thats it. Most stuns are 5, or 4 second stuns. But, in a stun chain, the first stun is the most dangerous- the new cooldown means that, once every 2 mins, you dont have to worry about the first AND the second stun. Since Stuns, and Fears are the only thing really dangerous to a FC, being able to "trinket" out of them is extremely awesome. And, for a FC, small windows are what really matter. If they can't get you down in a single burst, they won't be able to get you down at all IF your team is good (And if your team sucks, it doesn't matter WHAT you do, majority of the time, you will loose).

    Finally, the ONLY class with a similar cooldown is DKs, and everyone knows that DKs aren't the best carrier due to low mobility and control, even though they have really high survivability, and are hard to control.

    Remeber, for a FC, Mobility>Control>Ability to survive burst>ability to survive sustained. If you can't be locked down, you won't need to be able to survive a burst. If you can lock down others, you will greatly lessen the amount of damage you take from burst. If you can't do both, you need to be able to survive burst. If you can't survive burst, you have no business being the Flag Carrier.

    I like this post. Thumbs up!
    Brewmasters have the same mobility as a mistweaver and like I said im pretty hard to be caught as a mistweaver. With a well played offense team I think a brewmaster who knows how to avoid being caught would work really well.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Finally, the new spell DOES change stuns. The ability to trinket a stun, and have all stuns after that reduced by 60% is amazing. For instance..

    You get hit by a 6 second stun. You use the spell- next comes a 5 second stun, it would be 2.5 seconds with DR, now its only, like, .1 seconds. The third stun would come in at around 1 second. There is only one 8 second stun- combat rogues. There are a small number of 6 second stuns- Kidney Shot, Fist of Justice (Which is dispellable)... I think thats it. Most stuns are 5, or 4 second stuns. But, in a stun chain, the first stun is the most dangerous- the new cooldown means that, once every 2 mins, you dont have to worry about the first AND the second stun. Since Stuns, and Fears are the only thing really dangerous to a FC, being able to "trinket" out of them is extremely awesome. And, for a FC, small windows are what really matter. If they can't get you down in a single burst, they won't be able to get you down at all IF your team is good (And if your team sucks, it doesn't matter WHAT you do, majority of the time, you will loose).
    I have been playing Mistweaver since release, and mostly PvP. I have leveled as Brewmaster and done some dungeons at lvl90, and I know the problem with stuns isnt that you are stunned, its that you cant refresh Shuffle, and if shuffle falls off, your stagger amount is removed, and you suddenly sit there without "shield" and 20% parry chance. The new spell / spec-trinket is nice though, so perhaps that would help a monk out, atleast until DR is refreshed, and they can start stunning again, then you are screwed.

    As mistweaver I do feel like an unkillable FC at times though, great mobility and survivability. I have been playing with the thought of making an Oh-shit macro; Ring of Peace + Tiger's Lust + Zen Meditation(glyphed), running away with 70% speed for 6 sec, no melee attacks can reach you for 8 sec, Zen Meditation gives 90% dmg reduction and cant be removed by melee attacks. If Zen Meditation is on CD(3min), then you can use Diffuse Magic instead(1.5min CD), but I suspect thats not the talent a FC would choose.
    I havn't tried it yet, but it just seems like an awesome tool to get away from a big group.

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Cjeska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Remeber, for a FC, Mobility>Control>Ability to survive burst>ability to survive sustained.
    Putting contol above the ability to survive burst seems like you are playing the tactic of one/two healer back with the FC, while the rest tries to get your flag back. I remember this tactic very well, but it stopped beeing usefull beyond the 1700s. After that, you will have the Tank stay with the rest of the group until the other FC is dead. In a situation where everyone on the opposing team could switch to you, control is way below the ability to survive burst, especially against ranged cleaves.

    Time will tell if BM can find a spot as FC, so far I haven't seen a single one last season, all the way up to 2,2k+; and this season, although only a week old, seems to be the same.

    This class needs more good players to show others what we are capable of.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Warriors have the lowest HP, actually. Brewmasters have about the same amount as a bear. Warriors are one of the better flag carriers due to their control and mobility, NOT their HP pool.
    In terms of class mechanics, this is true. However, Brewmasters typically don't use stamina leg enchants, Stamina meta gems, or Stamina gems in a raid environment, so I'd wager that you'd probably run into quite a few in PvP that don't understand that EB uptime is irrelevant in PvP.

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