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  1. #61
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    I would be happy with two changes:

    1. Give DS the ability to reapply censure on all affected targets for like 5 sek. So you could have more targets under the affect of censure and it boosts our aoe a little bit.

    2. Give us a lets say 2min cooldown to instantly generate 5 HoPo. This way you could start a fight in pve and pvp more actively and could close HoPop gaps in between a fight for lets say 4 really quick DS in an aoe situation.

  2. #62
    make sword of the light 20% increased damage while wielding a 2h.....and Emancipate usable under all movement impairing effects but with a 30s cooldown. Give crusader strike and judgement a 10% chance to grant an additional holy power.
    Last edited by aliltna; 2013-01-29 at 04:28 PM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliltna View Post
    make sword of the light 20% increased damage while wielding a 2h.....and Emancipate usable under all movement impairing effects but with a 30s cooldown. Give crusader strike and judgement a 10% chance to grant an additional holy power.
    That last one is way too much RNG, and considering we want to bank up 5 HP in PvE before even using TV, it would be bad. At least half of the procs would be flat out wasted. 4 Holy power ---> Judge, it procs extra HP, extra HP wasted.

    Not sure what you mean under "all movement effects," like, cleanse them all? A 30 second cooldown for that is too much. It should already do that, and cost less mana. Look at how easily Ferals can do it.

  4. #64
    Rogues and Feral both have the ability to proc extra combo points, don't see any of them complaining about rng or a lost combo point since you have no way to tell if you procced the extra at 4-5, I was just coming up with a way to help out ret dps a little....and as far as Emancipate all it's good for is getting out of a slow or roots, it would be nice to be able to use it like barkskin for instance....if you're sheeped, feared, stunlocked if it could get us out of those types of cc I don't see why a 30s cd would be too long....what the hell make the cooldown affected by haste.

  5. #65
    You want to give us a ~30 second or less full trinket. Yeah, that seems fair.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliltna View Post
    Rogues and Feral both have the ability to proc extra combo points, don't see any of them complaining about rng or a lost combo point since you have no way to tell if you procced the extra at 4-5, I was just coming up with a way to help out ret dps a little....and as far as Emancipate all it's good for is getting out of a slow or roots, it would be nice to be able to use it like barkskin for instance....if you're sheeped, feared, stunlocked if it could get us out of those types of cc I don't see why a 30s cd would be too long....what the hell make the cooldown affected by haste.
    Theirs is much more consistent, and crit comes from Agility. And yeah, a 30 second cooldown trinket for every CC isn't very fair. It'd have to be only 1-2 types of CC's, like the old freedom was.

  7. #67
    Idk, playing a ret Paladin in BC and wrath, felt good, now it feels like shit.
    Once you take something away from a class/ spec that it's had before it's going to feel empty, ur gonna miss it, ur gonna be like "oh I really liked do this right now, but I cant"

    Inquisition is bad, and should feel bad.

    Imo paladin's shouldn't be "complex" we should have at least one "simple" class/ spec.

    I loved the wack-mole face roll days.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by iadamson View Post
    Inquisition is bad, and should feel bad.
    Having to keep the uptime is indeed ridiculous. It either needs to be on par with the duration of druid Savage roar or completely removed.

  9. #69
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vathius View Post
    Having to keep the uptime is indeed ridiculous. It either needs to be on par with the duration of druid Savage roar or completely removed.
    Want an easy change? Remove the 15% damage penalty from Glyph of Inquisition, so that it goes up to the reasonable duration of 1 minute. Hell, Glyph of Savage Roar gives feral druids 12 secs of their damage buff, for free and with no penalty. One of the main issues alongside sustained DPS is this self-buff; it is necessary, the shortest duration of all self-DPS buffs and has a comparatively high cost given the slow rate of HP generation with everything being on a CD.

    A non-CD bound attack that was not bound to the GCD; now that would be a dream come true.
    "If I owned a company, my employees would love me. They’d have huge pictures of me up the walls and in their home, like Lenin." - George Costanza

  10. #70
    High Overlord Trisrx's Avatar
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    As lead systems designer, my first wave of changes to ret:

    -Inquisition: Now passive.

    -New Ability: Empower. Activate 3 holy power, triggering an improved version of one of your abilities (Similar to affliction soulburn). 25 Second cooldown. Can be activated while stunned. Does not trigger global cooldown.

    Empower Cleanse: Clears all magic debuffs.

    Empower Hand of Freedom: Clears all physical debuffs.

    Empower Blessing of Might: Casts greater blessing of might on the target, increasing mastery by 10000 for 15 seconds. Does not overwrite blessing of might. 2 Minute Cooldown. Cannot be cast on self.

    Empower Judgement: Deals 50% additional damage, and adds a secondary effect.
    Truth: 5 Seconds of Denounce effect
    Righteousness: Hits all targets within 15 yards
    Justice: 2 Second Stun
    Light: 15 Seconds of the old judgement of light effect

    -Flash of light. Casting flash of light now increases all mana regeneration by 100% for 5 seconds.


    Note: Maintaining inquisition did not feel interesting or rewarding, so we have replaced it with a new mechanic that players should (hopefully) find more 'fun'. We are still aware that players feel too reliant on damage cooldowns in pvp. In our next PTR build, we will be applying a fix to lower cooldown damage while increasing sustained damage output, without resulting in a change to pve damage.
    Last edited by Malthanis; 2013-02-04 at 01:35 PM. Reason: Please refrain from using color tags to alter a large portion of your post.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Trisrx View Post

    Empower Blessing of Might: Casts greater blessing of might on the target, increasing mastery by 10000 for 15 seconds. Does not overwrite blessing of might. 2 Minute Cooldown. Cannot be cast on self.

    BRB, finding demo warlock so I can stack this with dark soul and win every game in sub 30 seconds.

    PS "empowered freedom" is already in the game. It's called HoP.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  12. #72
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    BRB, finding demo warlock so I can stack this with dark soul and win every game in sub 30 seconds.

    PS "empowered freedom" is already in the game. It's called HoP.
    .
    Good suggestions nonetheless. To maintain that Ret has no problems at the moment is just as deluded as to think it's a total disaster
    "If I owned a company, my employees would love me. They’d have huge pictures of me up the walls and in their home, like Lenin." - George Costanza

  13. #73
    High Overlord Trisrx's Avatar
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    Lesson learned, being a designer is tough. All numbers I provided would be subject to change.

    But your right, greater might would probably need to be reduced to 6-7k mastery, CD to 1m30s, or changed to not be additive with other mastery increasing buffs. And keep in mind this effect can be dispelled.

  14. #74
    It also just seems like a lot more micro managing for subpar rewards. Inquisition isn't really that difficult. I like the idea of an ability that instantly gives us 3 HP on a w/e CD, but the rest is meh.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  15. #75
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    I actually really like that idea, but I do agree the 10k mastery buff would be a little ridic. Perhaps Devotion Aura instead for a huge Ret-only buff? The problem is WoW doesn't need more offensive CD stacking, S12 has shown us that. Sorta reminds me of shiv with the judgement effect, I've always felt like judgment should be back to where it had cool effects like that.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    It also just seems like a lot more micro managing for subpar rewards. Inquisition isn't really that difficult. I like the idea of an ability that instantly gives us 3 HP on a w/e CD, but the rest is meh.
    It's the shortest duration (necessary) damage buff in the game with arguably the highest cost given how much slower it is to generate Holy Power compared to combo points. In it's current state, it's an issue. Remove the 15% DPS reduction from the glyph, making the duration to 1 minute I say, simple and perfect change.
    "If I owned a company, my employees would love me. They’d have huge pictures of me up the walls and in their home, like Lenin." - George Costanza

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    It also just seems like a lot more micro managing for subpar rewards. Inquisition isn't really that difficult. I like the idea of an ability that instantly gives us 3 HP on a w/e CD, but the rest is meh.
    I'd argue that those rewards aren't very subpar. yes, they would lower our damage, but would shoot our utility into the sky.
    Perhaps if we were doing too little damage they could lower the rewards and make Empower on a CD or something instead of HoPower cost.

    Sadly, its a little "overhaulish" so I doubt it will happen anytime soon >.<

  18. #78
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    you talked about nerfing ret burst and buffing sustained dmg/mechanics. What happended to that idea?
    We don't think the reaction from Ret players would be good overall. Would have to weigh that cost.
    Yep. Ret Paladins are from Mars, and GC is sure as hell from Venus. That's how detached he is from the Ret Paladin playerbase.
    "If I owned a company, my employees would love me. They’d have huge pictures of me up the walls and in their home, like Lenin." - George Costanza

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    Yep. Ret Paladins are from Mars, and GC is sure as hell from Venus. That's how detached he is from the Ret Paladin playerbase.
    Agreed. I'm kind of confused as to how he can think Ret paladins as a whole would dislike losing burst, when that's been the primary complaint for the past two expansions.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    Agreed. I'm kind of confused as to how he can think Ret paladins as a whole would dislike losing burst, when that's been the primary complaint for the past two expansions.
    Because the silent majority AREN'T complaining and people dislike change.

    EJL

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