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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Because the silent majority AREN'T complaining and people dislike change.

    EJL
    Yeah, but people also dislike being a wet noodle with no CD's.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-04 at 08:21 PM ----------

    So, new blue post points out that they are slowing down the concept process. Does this mean Ret is going to be shit out of luck in S13? Damage tweaks will help, but Ret seriously needed a different utility buff. Maybe another seriously subpar season will show them that Ret isn't fine or wanted for any sort of rated BG's.

    Guess I'm keeping my paladin holy and FCing as guardian.

  2. #82
    they just need to make TV a actual finisher not just a waste of time ... as well as fix the PPM on Divine purpose they broke it to be so rng that its retarded ... 25% chance to proc with a 3-5 second icd would be fine thxs

    they also need to make sacred shield give u a hot like wrath again

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Divineknight13 View Post
    they just need to make TV a actual finisher not just a waste of time ... as well as fix the PPM on Divine purpose they broke it to be so rng that its retarded ... 25% chance to proc with a 3-5 second icd would be fine thxs

    they also need to make sacred shield give u a hot like wrath again
    DP isn't on the PPM system.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  4. #84
    The suggestion for auras is sound. Currently, all specs offer the same aura benefit which is lame.
    As for how to boost sustain dmg on ret, why not just nerf Avenging Wrath and increase dmg of other baseline abilities?. Ret definitely needs refreshing ideas as the current is starting to get old but the new change made to sanctity of battle was in the right direction.

  5. #85
    I don't think you, OP, know what "rework" means.

  6. #86
    sounds like you're more interested in making an entirely new class.

  7. #87
    I don't mind ret too much as it is, some things which come to mind:

    1) get rid of censure stacking, just make it hit for full damage as soon as its applied, similar to deadly poison change. This would:
    - make soloing/leveling a bit better since initial damage is very low if cooldowns are already on cooldown.
    - same as above for pvp and would help a great deal vs ranged where landing enough attacks to get a 5 stack can take longer
    - target swapping would not be a dps loss as you would not have to rebuild stack every single time you change target
    - make aoe against 2-5 targets much more balanced as you wouldn't be throwing away tons of damage trying to build stacks on multiple targets
    - (might need to cap number of targets you can have censure up on to about 3-4 to stop aoe being too strong though)

    2) make inquisition last 10 seconds longer per holy power (1hp = 20s, 2hp = 30s, 3hp = 40s) and allow it to be cast with 0hp for a 10s duration (so you can use it before pulling something, this way its up while building hp to use on a longer duration cast of it)

    3) fix seal of righteousness damage, its splash hits for less than an unequipped punch at the moment, is it the weakest attack in the game? It could be adjusted along with the censure change above so that it allows aoe attacks to apply censure to all targets hit, but the censure damage would be reduced while applied to more than 3-4 targets. This would give ret an aoe dot like the rest of the damage dealers.

    4) give an aoe attack back which can be cast without a target, something we can use to find people in stealth.
    Last edited by Utok; 2013-02-05 at 06:07 PM.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Utok View Post
    I don't mind ret too much as it is, some things which come to mind:

    1) get rid of censure stacking, just make it hit for full damage as soon as its applied, similar to deadly poison change. This would:
    - make soloing/leveling a bit better since initial damage is very low if cooldowns are already on cooldown.
    - same as above for pvp and would help a great deal vs ranged where landing enough attacks to get a 5 stack can take longer
    - target swapping would not be a dps loss as you would not have to rebuild stack every single time you change target
    - make aoe against 2-5 targets much more balanced as you wouldn't be throwing away tons of damage trying to build stacks on multiple targets
    - (might need to cap number of targets you can have censure up on to about 3-4 to stop aoe being too strong though)

    2) make inquisition last 10 seconds longer per holy power (1hp = 20s, 2hp = 30s, 3hp = 40s) and allow it to be cast with 0hp for a 10s duration (so you can use it before pulling something, this way its up while building hp to use on a longer duration cast of it)

    3) fix seal of righteousness damage, its splash hits for less than an unequipped punch at the moment, is it the weakest attack in the game? It could be adjusted along with the censure change above so that it allows aoe attacks to apply censure to all targets hit, but the censure damage would be reduced while applied to more than 3-4 targets. This would give ret an aoe dot like the rest of the damage dealers.

    4) give an aoe attack back which can be cast without a target, something we can use to find people in stealth.
    I agree with everything you just said 1000000%

    http://http://us.battle.net/wow/en/c...lmist/advanced

    Infracted. Post constructively. ~Fhi
    Last edited by Fhi; 2013-02-05 at 06:40 PM.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utok View Post
    4) give an aoe attack back which can be cast without a target, something we can use to find people in stealth.
    Just take target requirement off of Hammer of the Righteous, ability bloat ftl.

  10. #90
    Hammer of Wrath

    "Hurls a magical hammer that strikes an enemy for 1747 to 1930 (+ 161% of Spell Power) Holy damage, generates a charge of holy power and applies the holy empowerment effect to the paladin's weapon"

    Holy Empowerment


    "Light rushes into the paladin's weapon causing it to glow and slows it's speed by 0.1 seconds for 3 seconds. Effect doubles if inquisition is up"

    Basically 3.6 weapons will get to be 3.8 for 3 seconds after a hammer of wrath and if inquisition is up. Will also enable some interesting play in both pve and pvp.
    Last edited by Ulmita; 2013-02-05 at 10:48 PM.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Hammer of Wrath

    "Hurls a magical hammer that strikes an enemy for 1747 to 1930 (+ 161% of Spell Power) Holy damage, generates a charge of holy power and applies the holy empowerment effect to the paladin's weapon"

    Holy Empowerment


    "Light rushes into the paladin's weapon causing it to glow and increases it's speed by 0.1 seconds for 3 seconds. Effect doubles if inquisition is up"

    Basically 3.6 weapons will get to be 3.8 for 3 seconds after a hammer of wrath and if inquisition is up. Will also enable some interesting play in both pve and pvp.
    That would be slowing it's speed, but yeah.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    That would be slowing it's speed, but yeah.
    Yeah, you know what i mean.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Yeah, you know what i mean.
    I do agree that it's interesting though. Not something that any other class does.

  14. #94
    I'd like to see a lot of visual differences between the specs.

    For Ret, I wouldn't mind them having glowing gold eyes. Make them look even more like Holy Warriors!

  15. #95
    I made a few ret changes..

    http://www.speedyshare.com/EhpGA/Ret-changes.pdf (Just get the .PDF file)
    - I made it in word..

    I am aware that alot of things are missing here and there. but it's just some suggestions

  16. #96
    Keyboard Turner Tertium Quid's Avatar
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    Ex-Gladiator discussion for a more viable Retribution paladin.

    Hi all.

    Just to present myself since I've been away from the game for quite a while now. I'm Lintz on Twisting-Nether, used to be a gladiator Ret paladin and strong contender overall in PvP during Vanilla, TBC and the early part of Wotlk. I hope you feel free to comment but please keep the complaints and smirk remarks for another thread or even better just to yourselfs.

    So I'm sitting here looking forward to the upcomming 5.2 patch and I got some ideas on how Blizzard could tweak just a few things about Retribution to make it more viable for both PvP and PvE.

    [NEW] "Reckoning of the Faithful"
    The first thing I would like to adress is an idea for a stacking buff that will make it more benefitial for Ret to really stick to that target and actually keep in melee range as much as possible. So here's just an examples from the top of my head:

    Make it so that when a Retribution paladin uses Crusader Strike or even Melee attackes it will give you a stacking buff about 3 to 5 depending on what will eventually seem more balanced. This buff will in turn give your following melee swings an increasing chance of proccing (let's say about 5% per stack just for messures) an additional damage for the Seal damage that is applied with using Templars Verdict, Crusader Strike and Melee Swings.

    Something like this will at least in my mind insight Ret players to relay more on actually staying in melee range and not kite as much in PvP since you really want to have those stacks up for that moment of burst. And for PvE this will be a nice addition to increase the sustained Dps that is somewhat lacking at preasent.
    Personally I feel that this change also would bring back some of that good old "Seal of Command" feel that was so iconic for the early Ret paladins.

    I know this post is starting to get long and maybe you're tired and a bit too lazy to keep reading, but please bear with me.

    So here comes my second argument for change that will give Retribution more stayingpower and utility for RBG's and Arena.

    I personally feel that the second tier talent called "Burden of Guilt" is something that feels more and more mandatory for Retribution the more I use it and just can't seem to go without it in PvP. I would like to see "Burden of Guilt" to be implemented as a baseline passive effect for Retribution only. My argument for this is that it feels so mandatory for actually catching your prey but forces you to give up the only reliable Crowd control present to the Ret paladin, ofcourse I'm talking of the "Fist of Justice" talent.

    To Replace "Burden of Guilt" in the talent tree I would like to see a talent more aimed for PvE utility. Perhaps something in the line of a talent that changes Blinding Light into a limited duration debuff for the surrounding targets interrupting spellcasts and giving the effected targets a limited duration debuff that increases spellcast time and time between attacks for melee by 40%. We could call it "Vindictor's Call" or something like that.


    So what do you guys think, please discuss!

    And remember;

    Stop your wine and beer with it!

  17. #97
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    Honestly Burden should have just been made baseline for Ret if you are using SoJ, which they want us to anyway, and isntead put a talent that does this.

    Your Blinding Light now has a 1 minute cooldown and increases the range by 5 yards.
    Not too OP for Holy, because then Holy misses out on repentence which is so damn good for them right now, and it's something that would compete with Fist for Ret.

    But nothing like that is going to be coming up soon, maybe 5.3. They just moved into tuning.

  18. #98
    Or change fist of justice to root of justice (like the implementation of a root effect with the light's hammer). So lets say that after the stun effect ends, the target is rooted in place for 2-3 seconds, or if dispelled early also triggers the root effect.
    Or actually make the talent so that after 2 judgements to the same target it roots them in place (the first being the 50% slow, then the second being the root). This will make ret more useful for peels; nothing worse than your arena partner getting trained and you can't do anything about it.
    I do agree that Burden of guilt should be baseline for ret also.

  19. #99
    Keyboard Turner Tertium Quid's Avatar
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    For my part what I feel is lacking from Ret in PvP is not added burst or utility under the "Glory" period which is pretty much the time around that you use all of your Avenging Wrath and other cooldown to burst someone. From what I've experienced I really feel that blizzard need to look more on how to improve ret during the downtime period inbetween cooldowns. As so I feel that the resent change for Hand of Sacrifice might actually be a turn in the wrong direction. Rather then giving Retribution even more reason to use their GCDs for using hands on everyone or just stacking holy power to do deasent damage or offheal in the meantime, I feel that offencive utility would really help to move Ret in a direction more suited for a damage dealing spec then just giving us a Holypaladins cleanse with a longer cooldown.

    Reducing the cooldown on Hammer of Justice with the Fist of Justice talent feels manadatory when compared to other classes that possess more then one way to crowdcontrol other players. And also the fact that most classes that has more potent CC has cooldowns between 25-40 seconds means that Retribution really falls short.

    Blinding Light is a good tool for interrupting spells and even creating some confusion if landed perfectly on a none focused player in an arena enviroment. Thoe in most cases I feel it's a bit "flawed", it just breaks too easy. Even our own Seal of Truth breaks it instantly which means you can't have hit the target you wanted to blind in the last 30 seconds or it will most likely break. Would be nice to see a rework of the glyph maybe so that it removes damage over time effects much like the glyph for Blind.

    All in all I must say I'm looking forward to the 5.2 patch but I really which that Blizzard could just fix these smaller issues that would make such a differance.

  20. #100
    Replace our CC tree, keeping the baseline Hammer of Justice for Ret, and adding a stacking snare to Judgement. 15% per application, 10 second duration, stacks 3 times. Make this snare Undispellable until fully stacked. Give Repentance to Holy as their cast CC, but lock the cast time to 2.0 seconds, not effected by haste. Remove the AoE snare from Light's Hammer. Return Consecrate to all specs, lower its damage, and give it a 2 second root effect on all targets that enter the area.

    Tune Avenging Wrath to 10% increased damage over 30 seconds. 2 minute cool down.

    Change Guardian into a offensive/defensive CD. 8 second duration. Increases damage done by 10%, reduces damage taken by 20%. 2 minute cool down.

    This would make our cool downs stackable, but we have about the power of current avenging wrath during an 8 second window. Outside of this, we have moderate burst. Increase the damage on CS by 5%, and 2H weapon damage by 5% to buff sustained.

    Seals could become a personal Utility, Auras could become a group Utility. And ACTUAL group utility.

    Seal of Truth - causes the paladin's damaging or healing abilities to increase the potency of their next Holy Power ability by 2% per application. Stacks 5 times.

    Seal of Justice - Causes the Paladin's damaging or healing abilities to grant "Crusade", increasing Holy Damage and Healing by 4%.

    Seal of Righteousness - Causes the Paladin's damaging and healing abilities to illuminate their targeted friend or foe with Holy Light, healing for 2% of maximum health every 2 seconds for 8 seconds, or causing 3000 * (17% SP) as Holy Damage every 2 seconds for 8 seconds.

    These three seals give you the choice of Truth for more burst, Justice for more sustained through predictable damage in each attack, or Righteousness, or more damage when away from a target. Also allows Holy to run with more burst, more predictable healing, or as a DoT class.

    As for Auras... I can't think of three different group utilities that could be balanced right now but I'll get back to it at some point. Just some ideas off the top of my head for the class, and retribution specifically to make it more interesting.

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