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  1. #161
    Just start with giving us a Ret passive that gives us old hand of freedom back that removes stuns when you use them. Slight tweaks to a few heals maybe on top of our damage buff will put rets in a respectable place probably.
    Last edited by Wooblez; 2013-02-24 at 09:57 AM.

  2. #162
    Titan Synthaxx's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if anyone has suggested it yet, but what about changing our mastery a little. See, I keep seeing complaints about burst vs sustained, and I too know how it is. I've been trying to think of a solution and couldn't come up with anything other than increasing the CD of our cooldowns, and increasing the duration of them, but then we just end up with the same problem, only now we can only get off a single GoaK on even the long fights.

    Then I thought a little further. After doing a 5-man heroic, I noticed Hand of light damage being 3rd place at 11.7% of damage. Almost all fights I do tend to have a similar value. What about if, instead of it being a single hit with all the damage dealt at once, it was instead a DoT. For example, say your Hand of Light would have dealt 15k in a single hit (such as from CS). Imagine instead, if this damage was applied as a DoT, dealing damage every second for 4 seconds, rolling and refreshing.

    So, instead of being 15k in a single hit, it's dealt 3.75K every second for 4 seconds. By the time it's finished, your CS will be off CD (assuming you've got a decent amount of haste - something of a priority on stats). That's just for a single CS. Start mixing in DS/TV, HoW, and HotR, and it'll quickly add up. For example, 10K + 50K adds up to 27.5K DPS from Hand of Light alone.

    Being that it's only a single stack too, there's no ramp up time to worry about and thus your DPS is sustained even through target switches (at least on some level). We've still got the burst from the abilities themselves, but we're getting our damage spreading out. Perhaps, in order to balance it for both sides, it scales with haste, so that it's duration lasts exactly the same length as your CS cooldown (or slightly shorter to prevent clipping). This way, there's no clipping of it, but those with lower haste values don't have the risk of bursting down someone with better gear (e.g. 4 sec HoL DoT regardless of haste would punish those with lots of haste while being beneficial to those without in essence making us have a haste cap, and having to decide whether we want to ignore it for the sake of our abilities or stick to it for the sake of our mastery). For the sake of Bloodlust/Heroism, this would also make it scale linearly instead of being gimped because you're suddenly clipping that final tick.

    Obviously the numbers listed here are just theoretical, but I was basing it more on the cooldown of CS when you're starting to roll in haste (I'm at 17.11% so have a 3.84 sec CS).
    Last edited by Synthaxx; 2013-02-25 at 05:36 PM.
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  3. #163
    I am Murloc! anaxie's Avatar
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    Syntaxx HoL on raid fights is usually #1 damage if it's below something is going wrong. It doesn't need a rework.

    Burst means damage tied to cooldowns power the abilites themselves lack the power that chaining HoW does. That is the lfaw in the system.
    A rework of HoL could potentially drop us from mid of pack to bottom.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2013-02-25 at 07:10 PM.

  4. #164
    This is mainly for PVP but instead of reworking anything/changing spells. SIMPLY give retribution a new baseline spell similar to the warriors "berserker rage". Instead of increasing our damage which would make it a carbon copy, have it increase our healing by 10% while granting us immunity to fear, sap, and incapacitate effects. Since we will most likely never be given a good gap closer compared to other classes at least this would at least help out in that department while increasing our sustainability tremendously for the simple fact of not being cc'd for an entire minute straight!! We could call this Righteous Aura or something similar. Give us this and i'm sure we will make the most out of it.

  5. #165
    Pandaren Monk
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    Synt, that wouldn't really effect anything. Same DPS, same consistent damage (as HoL is happening consistently anyway), but way worse during our CD's, at least for PvP.) I don't like the idea because that would make such a large portion of our damage essentially delayed.

  6. #166
    Moderator Krekko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anatzu View Post
    This is mainly for PVP but instead of reworking anything/changing spells. SIMPLY give retribution a new baseline spell similar to the warriors "berserker rage". Instead of increasing our damage which would make it a carbon copy, have it increase our healing by 10% while granting us immunity to fear, sap, and incapacitate effects. Since we will most likely never be given a good gap closer compared to other classes at least this would at least help out in that department while increasing our sustainability tremendously for the simple fact of not being cc'd for an entire minute straight!! We could call this Righteous Aura or something similar. Give us this and i'm sure we will make the most out of it.
    I think a good implementation of this would be on use "Auras" like they have Devotion Aura now.

    Bring back the old TBC Sanctity Aura, implement a Concentration Aura, a Retribution Aura and all that good stuff and have it cover that gap.

    I also for one would like to see our first tier of talents be Long Arm of the Law and or Speed of Light, Pursuit of Justice and then a Holy Leap spell like Tirion had so instead of having movement speed increases across the board you have an on demand movement speed, a passive movement speed (With ramping dependent on HP) and then a straight gap closer. One where you "turn into the light" and appear at the target.

    I was thinking the other day it's nice to have options, but I'd love that extra leap option. Spell envy man.
    Last edited by Krekko; 2013-03-04 at 05:40 AM.
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  7. #167
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    Currently our mastery only effects our special attacks(apart from exo). Wouldnt be better if it effected all of our attacks including white attacks? It should not be that op and buff to sustained. Or am I wrong?

  8. #168
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemo View Post
    Currently our mastery only effects our special attacks(apart from exo). Wouldnt be better if it effected all of our attacks including white attacks? It should not be that op and buff to sustained. Or am I wrong?
    It doesn't affect judgment either. No, HoL does not need a buff. Just ask Anaxie his thoughts on the topic - essentially, it is already a massive portion of our damage and we don't even stack mastery. If the buffs are still not enough, expect a small crusader strike buff because they'll be too scared to buff TV and exo and stuff because of PvPers bitching that Ret might actually get them below 80% outside CD's.

  9. #169
    More "finishers"
    lol rets dont have finishers at all. hammer of wrath isnt a finisher. it hits 80% of a TV maximum, thats not a finisher, even if it pops up at 20% ... execute with 400k crit is a finisher. yoe definetely die, when you get hit. thats a "finisher". ret has nothing comparing to that. hammer of wrath is just sth that fills up the rotation, mixing anf fucking up the rotation as soon as sth is under 20% health ^^ even the 6second delayed finsiher of a Dk is better. it hits for 200k crit. thats okay. but wtf hammer is not afinisher at all ...

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhany View Post
    lol rets dont have finishers at all. hammer of wrath isnt a finisher. it hits 80% of a TV maximum, thats not a finisher, even if it pops up at 20% ... execute with 400k crit is a finisher. yoe definetely die, when you get hit. thats a "finisher". ret has nothing comparing to that. hammer of wrath is just sth that fills up the rotation, mixing anf fucking up the rotation as soon as sth is under 20% health ^^ even the 6second delayed finsiher of a Dk is better. it hits for 200k crit. thats okay. but wtf hammer is not afinisher at all ...
    Yeah it's not really a finisher anymore as it can be used when avenging wrath is active. Maybe better to give it an increased crit chance/crit damage when target is below 20% health as it used to be when avenging wrath was active at start of cata.
    Last edited by MrImmortal; 2013-03-04 at 11:35 AM. Reason: typo

  11. #171
    So... What I read is that almost everyone of you wants sustainable damage buffed, but you also want to keep all the CDs and not make them useless like ES. Well here is a news flash, you can't have both.

    Only way you could have it is to prevent cooldowns from stacking. When you pop AW you would have CD on ALL the other CDs for the duration of AW. Same would go with GoAK and HA.

    And yes, it's a TERRIBLE idea and would make having so much CDs stupid.

  12. #172
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...thenius/simple
    This is my paladin, I clearly remember that in one battleground I got 8KBs, no deaths, and was top on the scoreboard for KBs, I honestly don't think that PvP ret paladins have a problem.
    If you are reading this, Congratulations you have nothing better to read

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenmerc View Post
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...thenius/simple
    This is my paladin, I clearly remember that in one battleground I got 8KBs, no deaths, and was top on the scoreboard for KBs, I honestly don't think that PvP ret paladins have a problem.
    Troll spotted.

    Preventing CDs stacking (just HA+AW, GoAK is on 5min CD so no restrictions needed) would be a good thing if accompanied by higher sustained imo

  14. #174
    Dhany, HoW is an Execute-like ability, not a finisher. We have other abilities as CP or HoPo builders and finishers, which use those CP/HoPo..

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