Why are the orcs and draenei still at war?

[Deleted]

it also doesnt change the fact that the orcs took demon blood on their own it was their own choice. not once but twice

And again, apart from a handful of individuals they had no idea what they were doing. As for the second time, Grom and his warriors were under attack and crazed due to Mannoroth's very presence. Remember, they only felt the bloodlust when the demons were nearby (in the same world as they).

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

no it is what you are saying. there are orcs who have fought and died to defend or help their allies from trouble. it might be at odds with the alliance but if the shoe was on the other foot you would say: "yeah that was a good guy". Orkus fighting/dying to make sure the horde know of an incoming attack is a great example. and thats whats dawning on me. you can't wrap your head around that despite them being against you that they are in fact capable of good/heroic deeds in the context of their peers. and not simply killing things but risking/losing their lives for those they value and see as a part of their brotherhood. and lets not forget horde members participating in killing major enemies not only to the horde but the alliance (raids).

Yes, I am totally sure simple terrorists in the real world do the same thing. Dying for something they think is noble =/= make you wanting of peace or in fact, noble to the people you are murdering.

[Sky High]

False.

oh? so thrall simply taking his people and leaving what he thought was the humans behind forever at the time is false? no its not.

[randomnamegenerator16]

also varian offered thrall lumber from elwyn to stop the fighting in ashenvale.. you know what happened afterwards? the twilight hammer split him into two people and the horde enslaved him and made him fight as a gladiator

Varian was gladiator couple years before that meeting. Check something before you post.

[Sky High]

Yes, I am totally sure simple terrorists in the real world do the same thing. Dying for something they think is noble =/= make you wanting of peace or in fact, noble to the people you are murdering.

sigh* the fact you seriously can't look past your bitter hatred means I'm just done trying to talk to you. i give you examples of them being good, and you brush them off as "terrorists" theres nothing left to discuss here.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

The Humans arrived on the Darkspears island and started killing them. Sen'jin notes that the Darkspears are hounded by them and prefers avoiding them. Also acting as if the Darkspears weren't peaceful is just being ignorant to their entire story as a tribe.

As the New Horde left Lordaeron behind at the onset of the Third War, Thrall's stolen fleet was scattered and heavily damaged by a fierce storm. The ships that remained with Thrall happened upon the islands of the Darkspear, and began repairing their vessels. Here they made peaceful contact with Sen'jin, leader of the trolls, who believed that he had seen the orc in a vision. The Horde discovered that humans of Kul Tiras had an outpost on the island, and were warring with the natives. Thrall attacked and destroyed it before the Alliance could muster the strength to threaten the orcish camp, as well as to aid the Darkspear.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Darkspear_tribe

[Linzo]

also varian offered thrall lumber from elwyn to stop the fighting in ashenvale.. you know what happened afterwards? the twilight hammer split him into two people and the horde enslaved him and made him fight as a gladiator

What? lol that's not even close to what happened...

Go home Immitis, You're drunk.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

oh? so thrall simply taking his people and leaving what he thought was the humans behind forever at the time is false? no its not.

yeah, so instead they move into Elven territory and murder those guys and take their land instead. Cool story.

sigh* the fact you seriously can't look past your bitter hatred means I'm just done trying to talk to you. i give you examples of them being good, and you brush them off as "terrorists" theres nothing left to discuss here.

No, you just can't see past anything I say. Yeah sure, dying while you murder the peoples who lands you invade might seem noble to YOU, but I don't think anyone else would agree. Again, I think the bad outweighs the good in terms of Orcs.

---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 09:35 AM ----------

What? lol that's not even close to what happened...

Go home Immitis, You're drunk.

What he refers to happened in a novel, I am not sure if its canon.

[Linzo]

yeah, so instead they move into Elven territory and murder those guys and take their land instead. Cool story.



No, you just can't see past anything I say. Yeah sure, dying while you murder the peoples who lands you invade might seem noble to YOU, but I don't think anyone else would agree. Again, I think the bad outweighs the good in terms of Orcs.

---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 09:35 AM ----------



What he refers to happened in a novel, I am not sure if its canon.

You know, you speak with the same tone of Daelin Proudmore.

Perhaps you share his fate also... I'm getting REALLY good at this RP stuff.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

You know, you speak with the same tone of Daelin Proudmore.

Perhaps you share his fate also... I'm getting REALLY good at this RP stuff.

I'm sure I sound just like him, with his very limited amount of speech in any game at all.

---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 09:49 AM ----------

This is how the story goes I guess.

Trolls or Orcs rape and murder everyone, gets everyone all pissed off. They are then annoyed at the fact everyone starts kicking their asses. So they are like "C'mon guys, we are good now, promise"... all while STILL killing the people they want peace with...

"Scumbag Humans"

Lmao.

[rowaasr13]

wasn't our fault man, it was that demon's blood man!

also the most prominent racists in the game are humans (see, Daelin Proudmore, Garithos, Blackmore etc)

First tried to destroy source of recent annihilation (yes, annihilation, not even massacre) of Theramore. Second tried to imprison future summoner of fucking Kil'Jaeden. What a disgusting criminals they are, right?

EVIL Alliance is also home of VILLANIOUS Velen, who hideously played major part in saving from extinction entire Horde race, no doubt just to place them in mortal debt!

Home to young, but already WRETCHED Anduin Wrynn plotted with his DARK so-called "aunt" (and we all know truth about young boys and they older "aunts") who tried to fool simple taurens from honorable Horde with their treacherous talks of peace, going as far as helping them in retaking Thunder Bluff.

Also SINISTER CULT MASTER Tirion Fording: even battle-hardened orcs of Blackrock and undead can't stand against his silver-tongued preaching: they start doubting they rightful warchief and mistress Sylvanas, going as far as to leaving Horde and speaking ill about their previous leaders! Obvious 1st grade INDOCTRINATION here!

Let's see what else... SCHEMING Field Marshal Brock, who orders destruction of Legion cannons above Thrallmar, so he can have orcs slave at Dark Portal defense front line.

MAN-WITCH Malfurion Stormrage, who is infecting big part of Horde with this hippy tree-hugging nonsence to make them soft.

MAD SCHIZO Varian Wrynn (no wonder his son is evil too, as already mentioned), who repeatedly tried to wriggle into favour of Horde by offering goods or trade routes. Can you really imagine any sane man doing so after escaping from being slave gladiator?

Sorry, I'm overwhelmed by pure darkness of this list and cannot continue further at the moment.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

First tried to destroy source of recent annihilation (yes, annihilation, not even massacre) of Theramore. Second tried to imprison future summoner of fucking Kil'Jaeden. What a disgusting criminals they are, right?

EVIL Alliance is also home of VILLANIOUS Velen, who hideously played major part in saving from extinction entire Horde race, no doubt just to place them in mortal debt!

Home to young, but already WRETCHED Anduin Wrynn plotted with his DARK so-called "aunt" (and we all know truth about young boys and they older "aunts") who tried to fool simple taurens from honorable Horde with their treacherous talks of peace, going as far as helping them in retaking Thunder Bluff.

Also SINISTER CULT MASTER Tirion Fording: even battle-hardened orcs of Blackrock and undead can't stand against his silver-tongued preaching: they start doubting they rightful warchief and mistress Sylvanas, going as far as to leaving Horde and speaking ill about their previous leaders! Obvious 1st grade INDOCTRINATION here!

Let's see what else... SCHEMING Field Marshal Brock, who orders destruction of Legion cannons above Thrallmar, so he can have orcs slave at Dark Portal defense front line.

MAN-WITCH Malfurion Stormrage, who is infecting big part of Horde with this hippy tree-hugging nonsence to make them soft.

MAD SCHIZO Varian Wrynn (no wonder his son is evil too, as already mentioned), who repeatedly tried to wriggle into favour of Horde by offering goods or trade routes. Can you really imagine any sane man doing so after escaping from being slave gladiator?

Sorry, I'm overwhelmed by pure darkness of this list and cannot continue further at the moment.

Hahahahahahahhhaha. this post fits so well with this one:

look if aliens came and blew up half of new york then the us army managed to fight them back and lock them up in camps would you be huggin em and kissin em if all of a sudden one came up to you and was like "yeah but like we were mind controled dude so like just let us live here and take all your stuff you aint usin it"

Hahahahahaha I love this sarcasm.

[Trassk]

Lets break this down.

People keep saying the orcs should be responsible for what happened to them, how they became demonicly corrupted and commited genocide against a race and all the other things they did after.

Fine, you want the orcs to be responsible for that, thats ok, as long as the draenei accept responsibilty for there massive screw up in leading the legion to draenor in the first place, thus turning the orcs from a shamanistic culture of tribesmen into a savage army.

The draenei have themselves to blame. There's was not just a minor screwup. If a nuclear bomb is set to target you, would you run into a populated area regardless of the risks and the lives it might destroy because of your negligence?

Velen claims to be the most powerful prophet there is, but he couldn't foresee there coming to draenor to be the reason the orcs were corrupted and turn on them?

So, you want the orcs to be held accountable, well eye for an eye the draenei should be held accountable for what happened to the orcs.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Lets break this down.

People keep saying the orcs should be responsible for what happened to them, how they became demonicly corrupted and commited genocide against a race and all the other things they did after.

Fine, you want the orcs to be responsible for that, thats ok, as long as the draenei accept responsibilty for there massive screw up in leading the legion to draenor in the first place, thus turning the orcs from a shamanistic culture of tribesmen into a savage army.

The draenei have themselves to blame. There's was not just a minor screwup. If a nuclear bomb is set to target you, would you run into a populated area regardless of the risks and the lives it might destroy because of your negligence?

Velen claims to be the most powerful prophet there is, but he couldn't foresee there coming to draenor to be the reason the orcs were corrupted and turn on them?

So, you want the orcs to be held accountable, well eye for an eye the draenei should be held accountable for what happened to the orcs.

Even in basic American Law, the difference between what the Orcs have done, and what the Draenei have done are very very very different. I'm sure you can see the different between trying to escape, and crash landing somewhere, and then one race literally making a 2 mile long road out of another race bones.


Interesting thought about the Velen forseeing things though. What if he forsaw all this as necessary, so that the creatures of Azeroth wouldn't eventually stop the Burning Legion and Sargeras?

[rowaasr13]

Lets break this down.

People keep saying the orcs should be responsible for what happened to them, how they became demonicly corrupted and commited genocide against a race and all the other things they did after.

No. Orcs should be responsible for what they are doing NOW. They're on genocide campaign NOW. They're raping and pillaging NOW. Without any demon influence and under command of someone who never had it in first place.

Also, do you see Alliance people chilling in Orgrimmar? Do you see Horde people chilling in Shattrath? That's the difference.
If you wish to blame this on "game mechanics", you're free to offer any other Horde-based neutral city.

[SherbertLand]

The draenei lived peacefully with the orcs for a long time before demons came to Draenor and started corrupting everyone and everything. The dranei knew they were being followed by demons and they didn't mention it the orcs. If the orcs weren't corrupted, they would have been simply destroyed along with the Draenei.

[Scummer]

http://www.wowpedia.org/Darkspear_tribe

I'm not sure what your point is.
The Darkspears were a peaceful Tribe who has Kul Tiras Humans invade their island and start killing them. Sen'jin did what he could to lead them away from the fighting in much the same way Vol'jin is doing with the Trolls atm from Garrosh and Orgrimmar.


I'm surprised people are are still arguing over the Draenei/Orcs guilt. Both are to blame. The Draenei landed on Draenor accidently as K'ure was growing ill. The Draenei didn't tell the Orcs about the Legion, a genuine mistake. The Orcs not knowing any better chose to heed their "ancestors" warning about the Draenei, another mistake. Velen tried to explain about his people and the Naaru along with Oshu'gun, the Orcs took this as blasphemy and excluding Durotan fuelled the Orcs desire to kill the Draenei, another Orcish mistake.

Both are to blame. Draenei for not warning the Orcs about the Legion, and the Orcs fault for so blindly following their ancestors and calling Velen out when he tried to educate them.
People also need to to bear in mind that Velen does feel responsible for the burden his people bring to any planet they set up on, he's not ignorant.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I'm not sure what your point is.
The Darkspears were a peaceful Tribe who has Kul Tiras Humans invade their island and start killing them. Sen'jin did what he could to lead them away from the fighting in much the same way Vol'jin is doing with the Trolls atm from Garrosh and Orgrimmar.

I have no read anything that reaffirms what you have stated. It says they were at war with the Gurubashi Tribe, fled from STV, landed on an island. Later the Horde finds them at war with Humans. It does not say anything like " Then the evil humans came. The Darkspears waved a white flag, and offered them food. But no, the humans pissed on that flag and threw the offering to the ground and laughed, then slaughtered poor, unarmed trolls"

Not to mention, trolls have ALWAYS attacked Elves/humans on sight prior to this. So uhh, what makes you think they were nice and peaceful?

[Scummer]

I have no read anything that reaffirms what you have stated. It says they were at war with the Gurubashi Tribe, fled from STV, landed on an island. Later the Horde finds them at war with Humans. It does not say anything like " Then the evil humans came. The Darkspears waved a white flag, and offered them food. But no, the humans pissed on that flag and threw the offering to the ground and laughed, then slaughtered poor, unarmed trolls"

Not to mention, trolls have ALWAYS attacked Elves/humans on sight prior to this. So uhh, what makes you think they were nice and peaceful?

The game itself - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJVIFCaWq3I. There were Humans on the island some time before the Orcs arrived. At this point I'm not sure what your argument is, is that the Trolls weren't peaceful? The Trolls were peaceful, the Humans arrived and started killing them. That's it.
Also your second statement is again an assertion that generalising a race (racism) is fine. Which it ofcourse isn't.

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

I think its because the orcs almost wiped the draenei to extinction.

This ^ Still not okay with this!