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  1. #501
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Nonsense, the numbers we have show that the Orcs aren't that much bigger than any other factions with the Blood Elves outnumbering them 6 to 1.
    the numbers we have also imply that there were almost 14,000 goblins on that boat from Bilgewater.

    regardless. His comment was that the ENTIRE Horde disagrees with Garrosh which therefore makes Vol'jin's threats justified and acceptable. This is blatantly false
    Last edited by mistuhbull; 2013-01-16 at 03:14 PM.
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  2. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanEX View Post
    The LEADERS have problems with Garrosh. According to the books both Vol'jin and Baine were disturbed by the number of their own people cheering at Garrosh's speeches after dropping the bomb on Theramore.

    So long story short. A MINORITY of the HORDE which happens to contain MOST of the horde LEADERS oppose Garrosh's methods. Yet none of them have the BALLS to do what an ANCIENT Tauren attempted when he challenged Garrosh to a Mak'Gora.
    It's not only the leaders.

  3. #503
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    So then how did Talgath sense Draenei magic from the Orc planet without actually going there? When he reports his finding to Kil'Jaeden he has no idea that the Draenei are currently on the planet. Kil'Jaeden orders Talgath there afterwards to find out.
    The Legion needs close proximity to the planet to sense the magic, it's reasonable to assume that the detection range somewhat correlates with the amount of arcane energies present.

    Seriously your straw man arguments are pathetic. If they could track Draenei magic as easily as you suggested they would never have needed 1000 years to discover Draenor. The fact that they needed this long and the fact that we even managed to survive and elude them for 25 millennia proves they can't just track us wherever we go.

    Nope. Only the 12 clan chieftains drank the blood after being tricked by Gul'dan. Nobody else drank the blood. All the other Orcs infected with the corruption had no say in it.
    Soo... you would call us Germans victims as well? We didn't have to say much, if we did speak up, SS would shut us up.

  4. #504
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Nope. Only the 12 clan chieftains drank the blood after being tricked by Gul'dan. Nobody else drank the blood. All the other Orcs infected with the corruption had no say in it.
    So....

    "Voices of the Warsong! Come forth! Not a one of you will be denied this ecstasy!"
    The Warsong warriors rushed forward, all eager to feel what their chieftain was feeling. The cup was passed around, and one by one. they drank. Each one shuddered for a moment in deep pain; each one passed through that pain to apparent delight and obviously in¬creased strength. And the eyes of every one who drank turned a blazing red. Blackhand watched, his frown increasing. When the last of the Warsongs had drunk from the cup


    Blackhand clutched his throat for a moment, but stayed completely silent while whatever dark magic was in the cup did its hell¬ish duty. He had removed his armor, and the muscles rippling and growing beneath his taut green skin were clearly visible. Red eyes glowed when he finally looked up. He motioned to his sons, and Maim and Rend shoved other ores perfunctorily out of their way as they rushed forward

    And then it breezes past all the other clans while Durotan and Drek'thar whisper to each other. Everyone but Orgrim, Blackhand's daughter, and the Frostwolves are implied or stated to have drank the blood.
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  5. #505
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathgoose View Post
    Technically, he didn't.

    From the very site you linked:



    The OP brought up how one group/country committed genocide less than a century before it became rather close allies with pretty much everyone with whom it was waging war, and compared that to the orc/draenei history/present whose sole similarity really is the genocide, as none of the socio-political factors of then Nazi Germany even remotely resemble anything about the Orcs/Draenei.
    That actually supports my point the two subjects have nothing to do with each other, nothing. The compare goes moot, mentioning the genocide is moot, ... one could've compared with any war or genocide (because after war is peace and harmony at some point; usually indeed less than a century) but the OP specifically decided to link with this one. Completely unnecessary.

  6. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    "Voices of the Warsong! Come forth! Not a one of you will be denied this ecstasy!"
    The Warsong warriors rushed forward, all eager to feel what their chieftain was feeling. The cup was passed around, and one by one. they drank. Each one shuddered for a moment in deep pain; each one passed through that pain to apparent delight and obviously in¬creased strength. And the eyes of every one who drank turned a blazing red. Blackhand watched, his frown increasing. When the last of the Warsongs had drunk from the cup


    Blackhand clutched his throat for a moment, but stayed completely silent while whatever dark magic was in the cup did its hell¬ish duty. He had removed his armor, and the muscles rippling and growing beneath his taut green skin were clearly visible. Red eyes glowed when he finally looked up. He motioned to his sons, and Maim and Rend shoved other ores perfunctorily out of their way as they rushed forward
    Okay, more irrelevance from me, but GOD, this is why I don't like the tie-in novels Blizzard makes. This prose is terrible.

  7. #507
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    Okay, more irrelevance from me, but GOD, this is why I don't like the tie-in novels Blizzard makes. This prose is terrible.
    in its defense, some of the punctuation and line-breaks are fucked up since the copy i found is I believe a translated German copy (since a couple times it has die Frostwolves)
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  8. #508
    Legendary! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    I love how this thread is about blaming the victims.

    Draenei were victims of the Legion, Orcs were victims of the Legion, Draenei were victims of the Orcs, Humans were the victims of the Horde, the Horde were victims of the Humans. Warcraft is about making more victims.

  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    in its defense, some of the punctuation and line-breaks are fucked up since the copy i found is I believe a translated German copy (since a couple times it has die Frostwolves)
    Is that why it says 'Voices of the Warsong! Come forth!"? If that's the original English text then Christie Golden is not the "goddess of warcraft literature'', as some people have said. Or, maybe it just proves what I meant when I said that that title was not a hard thing to earn.....
    Last edited by mmoc2636c1d1f2; 2013-01-16 at 03:37 PM.

  10. #510
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    Is that why it says 'Voices of the Warsong! Come forth!"? If that's the original English text then Christie Golden is certainly no Conn Iggulden. Not even a Gav Thorpe. (No hate to Gav, though. The Slaves to Darkness trilogy is pretty good in my view).
    I think I have my english copy somewhere....yeah, that's just how Grom talks
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  11. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    I think I have my english copy somewhere....yeah, that's just how Grom talks
    Good God. What, was he talking in a language he was uncomfortable in or something?

    EDIT: Oh wait, when you realize those people are known for their battle cries, this diction becomes a bit less laughable. Still, it's very bad dialogue.
    Last edited by mmoc2636c1d1f2; 2013-01-16 at 03:42 PM.

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    It's not only the leaders.
    Re-read the post and pay attention to the capitalised word MINORITY. Which means that some agree with their leaders, but the MAJORITY agreed with Garrosh.
    STRESS
    The confusion caused when one's mind
    overrides the body's basic
    desire to choke the living shit out of
    some jerk who desperately needs it

  13. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    The Legion needs close proximity to the planet to sense the magic, it's reasonable to assume that the detection range somewhat correlates with the amount of arcane energies present.

    Seriously your straw man arguments are pathetic. If they could track Draenei magic as easily as you suggested they would never have needed 1000 years to discover Draenor. The fact that they needed this long and the fact that we even managed to survive and elude them for 25 millennia proves they can't just track us wherever we go.
    Under normal circumstances, the Legion requires massive amounts of magic usage to draw their attention. Apparently they are more acutely tuned into Draenei magic because it is their own race. Even when the Draenei try to hide their magic, the Legion can detect it.

    By your close proximity theory: "Velen and his draenei settled upon a remote and peaceful world" http://www.wowpedia.org/Draenei If Talgath was right there at this remote planet, why wouldn't he confirm/discount the Draenei presence before going back to Kil'jaeden? This makes no sense.

    In those 25,000 years before finding the Orc planet, every time they landed on a planet, the Legion arrived shortly thereafter. They were only able to elude the Legion each time because they "had gotten wind of the approach."

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Soo... you would call us Germans victims as well? We didn't have to say much, if we did speak up, SS would shut us up.
    And you claim I use straw man arguments. The general Orc population was infected with the blood curse against their will. It's a pandemic that turns the infected into giant green rage monsters and even passes on to their offspring.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    So....

    "Voices of the Warsong! Come forth! Not a one of you will be denied this ecstasy!"
    The Warsong warriors rushed forward, all eager to feel what their chieftain was feeling. The cup was passed around, and one by one. they drank. Each one shuddered for a moment in deep pain; each one passed through that pain to apparent delight and obviously in¬creased strength. And the eyes of every one who drank turned a blazing red. Blackhand watched, his frown increasing. When the last of the Warsongs had drunk from the cup


    Blackhand clutched his throat for a moment, but stayed completely silent while whatever dark magic was in the cup did its hell¬ish duty. He had removed his armor, and the muscles rippling and growing beneath his taut green skin were clearly visible. Red eyes glowed when he finally looked up. He motioned to his sons, and Maim and Rend shoved other ores perfunctorily out of their way as they rushed forward

    And then it breezes past all the other clans while Durotan and Drek'thar whisper to each other. Everyone but Orgrim, Blackhand's daughter, and the Frostwolves are implied or stated to have drank the blood.
    "A Blood Curse is contagious; even though only twelve clan chieftains personally drank Mannoroth's blood, nearly every orc in the Horde was soon under its influence." http://www.wowpedia.org/Blood_Curse

    "There, twelve clan chieftains of the orc Horde drank from Mannoroth’s blood and fell prey to the curse of bloodlust. Their corruption quickly spread to the rest of the Horde and ultimately led to their ill-fated assault on the human kingdoms on Azeroth." http://www.wowwiki.com/Mannoroth
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-01-16 at 03:54 PM.

  14. #514
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Under normal circumstances, the Legion requires massive amounts of magic usage to draw their attention. Apparently they are more acutely tuned into Draenei magic because it is their own race. Even when the Draenei try to hide their magic, the Legion can detect it.

    By your close proximity theory: "Velen and his draenei settled upon a remote and peaceful world" http://www.wowpedia.org/Draenei If Talgath was right there at this remote planet, why wouldn't he confirm/discount the Draenei presence before going back to Kil'jaeden? This makes no sense.

    In those 25,000 years before finding the Orc planet, every time they landed on a planet, the Legion arrived shortly thereafter. They were only able to elude the Legion each time because they "had gotten wind of the approach."


    And you claim I use straw man arguments. The general Orc population was infected with the blood curse against their will. It's a pandemic that turns the infected into giant green rage monsters and even passes on to their offspring.


    "A Blood Curse is contagious; even though only twelve clan chieftains personally drank Mannoroth's blood, nearly every orc in the Horde was soon under its influence." http://www.wowpedia.org/Blood_Curse
    unsourced wiki v. the actual text of the book
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  15. #515
    much like in real life, both sides have a valid point.

    Orcs are upset because they feel the Draenei basically damned them. they led the demons(who the orcs never pissed off) to their homeworld and then the demons corrupted their people. nowadays the Orcs are trying to regain what they had before demonic intervention (when they were at relative peace with the Draenei btw... relative..not absolute) and nobody, the self-proclaimed ultra-good anti-demons Draenei included, seem to be willing to give them a fair shake. the squidies even allied with some massive xenophobes and are now waging active war against the Orcs. they feel that they were duped by people they didn't understand were evil-incarnate and now when they just want to get back to square one, everyone is continuing to hold that mistake over their heads. we've all made mistake and the Orcs are paying for their, in their opinion, more than is justified. they do have a point.

    the Draenei remember having been almost driven to extinction by demons once before and pushed nearly to the brink a second time by allies of demons... well that's a pretty good reason not to trust that second race, especially when they did occasionally wage war on your people even without demon influence. they also know via humans that this same race then wandered through a portal and slaughtered massive numbers of humans, elves, and dwarves due to the manipulations of demons. not exactly a good reason to start trusting them now. yeah they claim to be better now and trying to be more peaceful, but it's hard to trust demonic allies since demons are known to deceive. also the Orcs are not trying to be peaceful, they are trying to be MORE peaceful. so yeah "aww come on, i'll stop kicking everyone's ass quite so much" isn't exactly what the Draenei are looking to hear from an empire that was based on wholesale slaughter not too long ago. they also, have a point.

    neither side is right or wrong, the Draenei are being paranoid(with reason) and the Orcs are being sullen(with reason).
    “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”

    Quote Originally Posted by BatteredRose View Post
    They're greedy soulless monsters for not handing me everything for my 15 moneys a month!

  16. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanEX View Post
    Re-read the post and pay attention to the capitalised word MINORITY. Which means that some agree with their leaders, but the MAJORITY agreed with Garrosh.
    And in your first sentence you capitalize the word leaders, as if to say they're the only ones.

  17. #517
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    unsourced wiki v. the actual text of the book
    "There, twelve clan chieftains of the orc Horde drank from Mannoroth’s blood and fell prey to the curse of bloodlust. Their corruption quickly spread to the rest of the Horde and ultimately led to their ill-fated assault on the human kingdoms on Azeroth." http://www.wowwiki.com/Mannoroth

    I was trying to find the one I linked previously in the thread. I remember because the source on wowpedia was missing. This 1 is sourced to Shadows & Light.

    EDIT: Shadows & Light not Rise of the Horde.

  18. #518
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    "There, twelve clan chieftains of the orc Horde drank from Mannoroth’s blood and fell prey to the curse of bloodlust. Their corruption quickly spread to the rest of the Horde and ultimately led to their ill-fated assault on the human kingdoms on Azeroth." http://www.wowwiki.com/Mannoroth

    I was trying to find the one I linked previously in the thread. I remember because the source on wowpedia was missing. This 1 is sourced to Shadows & Light.

    EDIT: Shadows & Light not Rise of the Horde.
    And do you know what Shadows & Light is? It's an RPG supplement book, and therefore not canon (especially since the novels (which are complete canon) directly contradict it)
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  19. #519
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert the fish View Post

    neither side is right or wrong, the Draenei are being paranoid(with reason) and the Orcs are being sullen(with reason).
    this is pretty much the only logical way of looking at this debate. All others will just see things from a bias perspective.

    Sometimes wow players live there faction a little to much, and forget they have the ability to see the story from both sides.

    Then again some people are just self opinionated and want to just win every argument.
    #boycottchina

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Nope. Only the 12 clan chieftains drank the blood after being tricked by Gul'dan. Nobody else drank the blood. All the other Orcs infected with the corruption had no say in it.
    Yes. Those that blindly follow are still wrong. Those that elect poor leadership are still responsible.

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