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  1. #501
    Immortal Granyala's Avatar
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    Of course, the biggest idiocy in the Dreanei's so called 'eternal journey' was the naming of their newest home in the tongue that was easily understood by their pursuers, and if that wasn't enough, explicitly naming said refuge after themselves. Which, as the 'novel' (though calling it such is a disgrace to literature) RoH(?), points out, is what initially attracted said pursuers to track them down to this new area. Ergo, everything is, in fact, their fault.
    Wasn't it called Draenor back in Warcraft III, before the WoW-Draenei-Retcon was even conceived? The initial Draenei, aka lost ones, were presented as mere inhabitants of Draenor that just fought with the fel-orcs. No further explanation was given, back then. So the Name Draenor was just kept for consistency reasons. Consistency... olol ^^.

    I always wondered why we never got a name from the Orcs, or why the Draenei even gave the planet this name. If inhabitants are already there, why wouldn't you just well... call the planet by the name it's already been given?

    BTW: How is it that the Legion learned the Name of the planet, before even landing there? That would imply that the Orcs or some other indigenous race would:
    a) Communicate directly with the legion
    b) possess space travel of some kind and run into a legion agent, telling him "Dude, there's place called Draenor".

    The Legion can sense Draenei magic and it brought them to the Orc planet.
    No they can't. They can sense it ONCE THEY ARE ON THE PLANET. But not from a distance and know "They are on planet X".
    The legion can only sense MASSIVE arcane energies, like the kind which the Highborne used or like we used on Argus.

    Ifalna Sha'yoko on Twitter and Armory - Occasionally unfaithful to WoW with my Adorable Miqo'te - (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━ ┻

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    No they can't. They can sense it ONCE THEY ARE ON THE PLANET. But not from a distance and know "They are on planet X".
    The legion can only sense MASSIVE arcane energies, like the kind which the Highborne used or like we used on Argus.
    So then how did Talgath sense Draenei magic from the Orc planet without actually going there? When he reports his finding to Kil'Jaeden he has no idea that the Draenei are currently on the planet. Kil'Jaeden orders Talgath there afterwards to find out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talgath in Rise of the Horde
    There is a small world, primitive and insignificant. And I have sensed their peculiar brand of magic Minting the area. It is possible that they may have come and gone. Such, alas, has happened before.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    This would be convincing if it wasn't for the fact that you treated my so-called 'bitching' as an observation regarding the rightness of either side of this sub-topic of yours regarding who is the victim in this part of the Warcraft continuity (the narrative does make the point of saying that the answer to this question is 'both of them', but I'll not press the point, having parted with this series long ago). I was just making a humorous observation based off what is, undeniably, a contrivance.

    That being said, this quoted statement seems like a clumsy attempt to pick yourself off the ground after having misfired wildly. Especially considering that I more or less agreed with you in the very post you're raging against. Especially considering how you're latching onto 'big words'.
    Well, most of this post is just pretty much made up BS. Thats great though. if you think anything you've said is "humorous" or anything past "snarky" .... Sorry. No raging here. I guess if you want to pretend like you are looking down on me, go ahead. I guess you can write down a "cool point" tally in your notebook.

    Sorry, stating you think its bad writing isn't agreeing with me. Your last sentence isn't even a sentence. Whats even worse is how you look down on these forums, but all you have brought to it today is condescension, bitching, and AGAIN, a few big words. That isn't being witty or intelligent. Sounds like you need to work on that vocab instead of use thesauruses to pat yourself on the back.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-16 at 10:00 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    The Legion was lured to these planets by Draenei magic. The same way they are lured to planets that use Arcane magic.


    One Orc doomed the entire race. How are they not victims?
    They found them, that is not the same as tracking a trail, or footprints.

    No, they were willing. They willingly chose to drink and have a good time. Its just buyers remorse. You can call hem STUPID, but not VICTIMS.
    Last edited by Lemonpartyfan; 2013-01-16 at 03:01 PM.

  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Wasn't it called Draenor back in Warcraft III, before the WoW-Draenei-Retcon was even conceived? The initial Draenei, aka lost ones, were presented as mere inhabitants of Draenor that just fought with the fel-orcs. No further explanation was given, back then. So the Name Draenor was just kept for consistency reasons. Consistency... olol ^^.
    Well, like I said, it's odd the Orcs didn't have their own name for it.

    I always wondered why we never got a name from the Orcs, or why the Draenei even gave the planet this name. If inhabitants are already there, why wouldn't you just well... call the planet by the name it's already been given?
    It's Blizzard, what did you expect? Seriously, the Orcs have names for cliffs, are they honestly selling the idea that they had no name for the world?

    BTW: How is it that the Legion learned the Name of the planet, before even landing there? That would imply that the Orcs or some other indigenous race would:
    a) Communicate directly with the legion
    b) possess space travel of some kind and run into a legion agent, telling him "Dude, there's place called Draenor".
    I don't think it was ever satisfactorily explained. All that was said is that one Kil'jaeden's men went around space one day and somehow got the name. Like I said, stupid.
    Last edited by Frostbane; 2013-01-16 at 03:14 PM.

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    No, they were willing. They willingly chose to drink and have a good time. Its just buyers remorse. You can call hem STUPID, but not VICTIMS.
    Nope. Only the 12 clan chieftains drank the blood after being tricked by Gul'dan. Nobody else drank the blood. All the other Orcs infected with the corruption had no say in it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  6. #506
    Warchief Azgraal's Avatar
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    Force of habit, i guess..
    Disclaimer: The majority of my posts might be dripping in sarcasm. Don't take everything I say literally.




  7. #507
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Nonsense, the numbers we have show that the Orcs aren't that much bigger than any other factions with the Blood Elves outnumbering them 6 to 1.
    the numbers we have also imply that there were almost 14,000 goblins on that boat from Bilgewater.

    regardless. His comment was that the ENTIRE Horde disagrees with Garrosh which therefore makes Vol'jin's threats justified and acceptable. This is blatantly false
    Last edited by mistuhbull; 2013-01-16 at 03:14 PM.
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  8. #508
    Over 9000! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanEX View Post
    The LEADERS have problems with Garrosh. According to the books both Vol'jin and Baine were disturbed by the number of their own people cheering at Garrosh's speeches after dropping the bomb on Theramore.

    So long story short. A MINORITY of the HORDE which happens to contain MOST of the horde LEADERS oppose Garrosh's methods. Yet none of them have the BALLS to do what an ANCIENT Tauren attempted when he challenged Garrosh to a Mak'Gora.
    It's not only the leaders.

  9. #509
    Immortal Granyala's Avatar
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    So then how did Talgath sense Draenei magic from the Orc planet without actually going there? When he reports his finding to Kil'Jaeden he has no idea that the Draenei are currently on the planet. Kil'Jaeden orders Talgath there afterwards to find out.
    The Legion needs close proximity to the planet to sense the magic, it's reasonable to assume that the detection range somewhat correlates with the amount of arcane energies present.

    Seriously your straw man arguments are pathetic. If they could track Draenei magic as easily as you suggested they would never have needed 1000 years to discover Draenor. The fact that they needed this long and the fact that we even managed to survive and elude them for 25 millennia proves they can't just track us wherever we go.

    Nope. Only the 12 clan chieftains drank the blood after being tricked by Gul'dan. Nobody else drank the blood. All the other Orcs infected with the corruption had no say in it.
    Soo... you would call us Germans victims as well? We didn't have to say much, if we did speak up, SS would shut us up.

    Ifalna Sha'yoko on Twitter and Armory - Occasionally unfaithful to WoW with my Adorable Miqo'te - (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━ ┻

  10. #510
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Nope. Only the 12 clan chieftains drank the blood after being tricked by Gul'dan. Nobody else drank the blood. All the other Orcs infected with the corruption had no say in it.
    So....

    "Voices of the Warsong! Come forth! Not a one of you will be denied this ecstasy!"
    The Warsong warriors rushed forward, all eager to feel what their chieftain was feeling. The cup was passed around, and one by one. they drank. Each one shuddered for a moment in deep pain; each one passed through that pain to apparent delight and obviously in¬creased strength. And the eyes of every one who drank turned a blazing red. Blackhand watched, his frown increasing. When the last of the Warsongs had drunk from the cup


    Blackhand clutched his throat for a moment, but stayed completely silent while whatever dark magic was in the cup did its hell¬ish duty. He had removed his armor, and the muscles rippling and growing beneath his taut green skin were clearly visible. Red eyes glowed when he finally looked up. He motioned to his sons, and Maim and Rend shoved other ores perfunctorily out of their way as they rushed forward

    And then it breezes past all the other clans while Durotan and Drek'thar whisper to each other. Everyone but Orgrim, Blackhand's daughter, and the Frostwolves are implied or stated to have drank the blood.
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathgoose View Post
    Technically, he didn't.

    From the very site you linked:



    The OP brought up how one group/country committed genocide less than a century before it became rather close allies with pretty much everyone with whom it was waging war, and compared that to the orc/draenei history/present whose sole similarity really is the genocide, as none of the socio-political factors of then Nazi Germany even remotely resemble anything about the Orcs/Draenei.
    That actually supports my point the two subjects have nothing to do with each other, nothing. The compare goes moot, mentioning the genocide is moot, ... one could've compared with any war or genocide (because after war is peace and harmony at some point; usually indeed less than a century) but the OP specifically decided to link with this one. Completely unnecessary.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    "Voices of the Warsong! Come forth! Not a one of you will be denied this ecstasy!"
    The Warsong warriors rushed forward, all eager to feel what their chieftain was feeling. The cup was passed around, and one by one. they drank. Each one shuddered for a moment in deep pain; each one passed through that pain to apparent delight and obviously in¬creased strength. And the eyes of every one who drank turned a blazing red. Blackhand watched, his frown increasing. When the last of the Warsongs had drunk from the cup


    Blackhand clutched his throat for a moment, but stayed completely silent while whatever dark magic was in the cup did its hell¬ish duty. He had removed his armor, and the muscles rippling and growing beneath his taut green skin were clearly visible. Red eyes glowed when he finally looked up. He motioned to his sons, and Maim and Rend shoved other ores perfunctorily out of their way as they rushed forward
    Okay, more irrelevance from me, but GOD, this is why I don't like the tie-in novels Blizzard makes. This prose is terrible.

  13. #513
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    Okay, more irrelevance from me, but GOD, this is why I don't like the tie-in novels Blizzard makes. This prose is terrible.
    in its defense, some of the punctuation and line-breaks are fucked up since the copy i found is I believe a translated German copy (since a couple times it has die Frostwolves)
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  14. #514
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    I love how this thread is about blaming the victims.

    Draenei were victims of the Legion, Orcs were victims of the Legion, Draenei were victims of the Orcs, Humans were the victims of the Horde, the Horde were victims of the Humans. Warcraft is about making more victims.

  15. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    in its defense, some of the punctuation and line-breaks are fucked up since the copy i found is I believe a translated German copy (since a couple times it has die Frostwolves)
    Is that why it says 'Voices of the Warsong! Come forth!"? If that's the original English text then Christie Golden is not the "goddess of warcraft literature'', as some people have said. Or, maybe it just proves what I meant when I said that that title was not a hard thing to earn.....
    Last edited by Frostbane; 2013-01-16 at 03:37 PM.

  16. #516
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbane View Post
    Is that why it says 'Voices of the Warsong! Come forth!"? If that's the original English text then Christie Golden is certainly no Conn Iggulden. Not even a Gav Thorpe. (No hate to Gav, though. The Slaves to Darkness trilogy is pretty good in my view).
    I think I have my english copy somewhere....yeah, that's just how Grom talks
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    I think I have my english copy somewhere....yeah, that's just how Grom talks
    Good God. What, was he talking in a language he was uncomfortable in or something?

    EDIT: Oh wait, when you realize those people are known for their battle cries, this diction becomes a bit less laughable. Still, it's very bad dialogue.
    Last edited by Frostbane; 2013-01-16 at 03:42 PM.

  18. #518
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    It's not only the leaders.
    Re-read the post and pay attention to the capitalised word MINORITY. Which means that some agree with their leaders, but the MAJORITY agreed with Garrosh.
    STRESS
    The confusion caused when one's mind
    overrides the body's basic
    desire to choke the living shit out of
    some jerk who desperately needs it

  19. #519
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    The Legion needs close proximity to the planet to sense the magic, it's reasonable to assume that the detection range somewhat correlates with the amount of arcane energies present.

    Seriously your straw man arguments are pathetic. If they could track Draenei magic as easily as you suggested they would never have needed 1000 years to discover Draenor. The fact that they needed this long and the fact that we even managed to survive and elude them for 25 millennia proves they can't just track us wherever we go.
    Under normal circumstances, the Legion requires massive amounts of magic usage to draw their attention. Apparently they are more acutely tuned into Draenei magic because it is their own race. Even when the Draenei try to hide their magic, the Legion can detect it.

    By your close proximity theory: "Velen and his draenei settled upon a remote and peaceful world" http://www.wowpedia.org/Draenei If Talgath was right there at this remote planet, why wouldn't he confirm/discount the Draenei presence before going back to Kil'jaeden? This makes no sense.

    In those 25,000 years before finding the Orc planet, every time they landed on a planet, the Legion arrived shortly thereafter. They were only able to elude the Legion each time because they "had gotten wind of the approach."

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Soo... you would call us Germans victims as well? We didn't have to say much, if we did speak up, SS would shut us up.
    And you claim I use straw man arguments. The general Orc population was infected with the blood curse against their will. It's a pandemic that turns the infected into giant green rage monsters and even passes on to their offspring.

    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    So....

    "Voices of the Warsong! Come forth! Not a one of you will be denied this ecstasy!"
    The Warsong warriors rushed forward, all eager to feel what their chieftain was feeling. The cup was passed around, and one by one. they drank. Each one shuddered for a moment in deep pain; each one passed through that pain to apparent delight and obviously in¬creased strength. And the eyes of every one who drank turned a blazing red. Blackhand watched, his frown increasing. When the last of the Warsongs had drunk from the cup


    Blackhand clutched his throat for a moment, but stayed completely silent while whatever dark magic was in the cup did its hell¬ish duty. He had removed his armor, and the muscles rippling and growing beneath his taut green skin were clearly visible. Red eyes glowed when he finally looked up. He motioned to his sons, and Maim and Rend shoved other ores perfunctorily out of their way as they rushed forward

    And then it breezes past all the other clans while Durotan and Drek'thar whisper to each other. Everyone but Orgrim, Blackhand's daughter, and the Frostwolves are implied or stated to have drank the blood.
    "A Blood Curse is contagious; even though only twelve clan chieftains personally drank Mannoroth's blood, nearly every orc in the Horde was soon under its influence." http://www.wowpedia.org/Blood_Curse

    "There, twelve clan chieftains of the orc Horde drank from Mannoroth’s blood and fell prey to the curse of bloodlust. Their corruption quickly spread to the rest of the Horde and ultimately led to their ill-fated assault on the human kingdoms on Azeroth." http://www.wowwiki.com/Mannoroth
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-01-16 at 03:54 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  20. #520
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Under normal circumstances, the Legion requires massive amounts of magic usage to draw their attention. Apparently they are more acutely tuned into Draenei magic because it is their own race. Even when the Draenei try to hide their magic, the Legion can detect it.

    By your close proximity theory: "Velen and his draenei settled upon a remote and peaceful world" http://www.wowpedia.org/Draenei If Talgath was right there at this remote planet, why wouldn't he confirm/discount the Draenei presence before going back to Kil'jaeden? This makes no sense.

    In those 25,000 years before finding the Orc planet, every time they landed on a planet, the Legion arrived shortly thereafter. They were only able to elude the Legion each time because they "had gotten wind of the approach."


    And you claim I use straw man arguments. The general Orc population was infected with the blood curse against their will. It's a pandemic that turns the infected into giant green rage monsters and even passes on to their offspring.


    "A Blood Curse is contagious; even though only twelve clan chieftains personally drank Mannoroth's blood, nearly every orc in the Horde was soon under its influence." http://www.wowpedia.org/Blood_Curse
    unsourced wiki v. the actual text of the book
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

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