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  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandrox View Post
    Still not seeing a difference. The legion coming to your world means your fucked, with the draenei there or not.
    At least if you are enslaved, there exists the potential for salvation as like what happened with the Orcs. Though they broke free of the Legion, they haven't quite reached the salvation part. But that's coming when they join the Army of the Light.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    At least if you are enslaved, there exists the potential for salvation as like what happened with the Orcs. Though they broke free of the Legion, they haven't quite reached the salvation part. But that's coming when they join the Army of the Light.
    Orcs werent enslaved, merely corrupted. Enslaved by the Legion is what happened to the Sayaadi and the Mo'arg.

  3. #663
    When the legion REALLY convert a race, there is no salvation. and whats left behind is more like what the Combine or reapers do.

    You cant call what they turn the conquered races into a "survival" of the race. its a twisted horrific form of its former race. Nothing that once made them is left. Just a chaos filled mass of legion-serving hate. its an affront to everything they once were (unless already evil and chaotic).
    Last edited by Tenjen; 2013-01-16 at 09:50 PM.

  4. #664
    Old God Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    At least if you are enslaved, there exists the potential for salvation as like what happened with the Orcs. Though they broke free of the Legion, they haven't quite reached the salvation part. But that's coming when they join the Army of the Light.
    And then... orc paladins!

  5. #665
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    And then... orc paladins!
    Orc shamans recognizing the Holy Light as an Element and the Naaru as their Elementals have created a martial order called the Oshu'gol (or Gol'gun depending on which part of Oshu'gun means spirit) or Spirit Axes.

    Yes, I have thought of this before
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  6. #666
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Light and darkness are elements in themselves, they are just more abstract versions of the elements of nature.

    Also, the holy light has shown it only takes having some kind of faith to wield it, the sunwalkers found this out, and the blood elves (after the sunwell was restored) found it to. And unlike forsaken, orcs are no more effected by holy light then any other living mortal, being how tirion healed eitrigg with it.

    So, orc paladins are not beyond the realms of possibility. Infact the russian made mmo game Allods has orc paladins in it, which they call Reavers.

  7. #667
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    So, orc paladins are not beyond the realms of possibility. Infact the russian made mmo game Allods has orc paladins in it, which they call Reavers.
    In russian version of it, the Imperial human paladins were called Commissars. The awesomeness.
    "A NAME IS A CLOAK OF LETTERS THROWN UPON A MAN. IT MEANS NOTHING." - Transcendent One, Planescape: Torment.

  8. #668
    Old God Nindoriel's Avatar
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    When even the Forsaken can use the Holy Light, not even Forsaken Paladins are beyond the realms of possibility. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.

  9. #669
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandrox View Post
    Orcs werent enslaved, merely corrupted. Enslaved by the Legion is what happened to the Sayaadi and the Mo'arg.
    They were most definitely enslaved.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rise of the Horde
    "Behold my lieutenant, Mannoroth. Well has he served me and well shall he continue to serve. On other worlds, they call him the Destructor. But here, he is the savior. Gul'dan," purred Kil’jaeden, and suddenly Gul'dan felt weak and sick again. "You know what I am offering your people."
    Gul'dan swallowed hard. He did not dare glance at Ner'zhul, whose gaze he felt boring into his back.
    Yes, he knew well what Kil’jaeden was offering. Power beyond imagining . . . and slavery for eternity. Kil’jaeden had offered the former to Ner'zhul in exchange for the latter, and Ner'zhul, the coward, had balked. He had not wanted to doom his people. Gul'dan was untroubled by such scruples.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  10. #670
    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    you see it as mercy, do the Orcs?
    I'm ok with orcs seeing it as anything they want. I'm perfectly ok with smash / destroy / pillage / mercy is weakness cultures. What bothers me is hypocrite players that somehow insist that orcs are not like that, e.g. they're in war with Draenei for some noble reason.

    So, my stance on original question why Orcs are still opposed to Draenei is: because Orcs are bloodthirsty warmongers. If you agree, then we really just have same opinion.

  11. #671
    Immortal Granyala's Avatar
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    When the legion REALLY convert a race, there is no salvation.
    Not true. Even high Eredar lords can be redeemed, if they so desire. I suggest you do the following quest line:

    Socrethar's Shadow

    Ifalna Sha'yoko on Twitter and Armory - Occasionally unfaithful to WoW with my Adorable Miqo'te - (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━ ┻

  12. #672
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert the fish View Post
    because simply put Garrosh is responsible only for Garrosh's action while Varian is responsible for Varian's action. Jaina, well she is responsible for Jaina's actions.


    just because Garrosh was a douchenozzle first doesn't mean that he is responsible for Varian and Jain's horrible reactions. no they are responsible 100% for what they did. Garrosh is responsible for needlessly antagonizing them, they get the bill for rising to his baiting. both sides are equally culpable.

    Varian may be guilty to rising to Garrosh's baiting...

    But there is a distinct difference between baiting and what Garrosh did to Theramore. Which is why as fan I was so disappointed in how the story ended, and why I find nothing wrong with Jaina's current anger.

    Say what you want about her letting Theramore be used as a military base, you can NOT disagree that she is the one person that worked harder than anyone (even Thrall) for inter faction peace. Hell, she was so well known in the Horde, that Baine went to her for help as opposed to any of the Horde chieftains...even Vol'Jin.
    STRESS
    The confusion caused when one's mind
    overrides the body's basic
    desire to choke the living shit out of
    some jerk who desperately needs it

  13. #673
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    I'm ok with orcs seeing it as anything they want. I'm perfectly ok with smash / destroy / pillage / mercy is weakness cultures. What bothers me is hypocrite players that somehow insist that orcs are not like that, e.g. they're in war with Draenei for some noble reason.

    So, my stance on original question why Orcs are still opposed to Draenei is: because Orcs are bloodthirsty warmongers. If you agree, then we really just have same opinion.
    The orcs were not in war with the draenei over noble reasons before, although they thought they were, they thought the draenei were a threat because kil'jaeden tricked ner'zhul and the rest followed his misguided wisdom.

    Currently they have a solid reason to be at war with them, for there survival, since the alliance is trying to step up and wipe the horde out.

  14. #674
    Old God Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Currently they have a solid reason to be at war with them, for there survival, since the alliance is trying to step up and wipe the horde out.
    Really? Wipe them out? Did I sleep through a couple expansions? Not even Varian wants to wipe out the Horde. The consensus seems to be that there can't be peace with Garrosh as Warchief. The only ones that currently attempt to wipe someone out is the Horde.

  15. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    Really? Wipe them out? Did I sleep through a couple expansions? Not even Varian wants to wipe out the Horde. The consensus seems to be that there can't be peace with Garrosh as Warchief. The only ones that currently attempt to wipe someone out is the Horde.
    Who is the Horde trying to wipe out? Because I really missed that part (Seeing as it's not in anything that can even be closely considered as lore).

  16. #676
    Dont forget that some Draeneis also were corrupted by the demons...
    In Shattrath though we see them leaving alongside each other and it seems to me inside there they are more interested in what the BE do (Scryers) than the orcs.
    Also in game we can see from both sides that before the demons corruption they lived in piece or at least without any heavy hostilitys.
    But as stated above Draeinei is a long living race and its not easy to forget even more to forgive the acts of the Orcs, although imo the remaining untainted Orcs doesnt seem to hate or be at war with the Draeneis more likely beeing ashamed of their green skinned brothers acts.

  17. #677
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Who is the Horde trying to wipe out? Because I really missed that part (Seeing as it's not in anything that can even be closely considered as lore).
    I'm going to assume this is going to be pointed to (though it specifically is pointed at the Twilight's Hammer but that's irrelevant to many)

    Garrosh Hellscream yells: Fellow warriors of the Horde. Hear me now!
    Garrosh Hellscream yells: Ahead hides our foe. Worshippers of chaos who seek to remake the world.
    Garrosh Hellscream yells: A new world is coming, friends. But it is not the world of their design.
    Garrosh Hellscream yells: Together, we will crush the Twilight's Hammer, raze their stronghold,
    Garrosh Hellscream yells: salt the earth, and burn the bodies. All will tremble at our might.
    Garrosh Hellscream yells: Then we will stand astride this world as its masters -
    Garrosh Hellscream yells: united in our conviction, unrivaled in strength, beholden to no one.
    Garrosh Hellscream yells: Today, WE will remake the world. Our world. FOR THE HORDE!

    Then again, Mr. Wrynn was going around saying thing like

    King Varian Wrynn says: I was away for too long. My absence cost us the lives of some of our greatest heroes. Trash like you [thrall] and this evil witch were allowed to roam free -- unchecked.
    King Varian Wrynn says: The time has come to make things right. To disband your treacherous kingdom of murderers and thieves. Putress was the first strike. Many more will come.
    King Varian Wrynn says: I've waited a long time for this, Thrall. For every time I was thrown into one of your damned arenas... for every time I killed a green-skinned aberration like you... I could only think of one thing.
    King Varian Wrynn says: What our world could be without you and your twisted Horde... It ends now, Warchief.
    King Varian Wrynn says: ATTACK! FOR STORMWIND! FOR BOLVAR! FOR THE ALLIANCE!
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  18. #678
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Currently they have a solid reason to be at war with them, for there survival, since the alliance is trying to step up and wipe the horde out.
    What bothers me is hypocrite players that somehow insist that orcs are not like that, e.g. they're in war with Draenei for some noble reason.

  19. #679
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Aah, I see.. But I will await Nindoriels answer
    It's probably some crap Garrosh said, because if Garrosh yells something stupid, it's "the Horde wiping out stuff".
    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    What bothers me is hypocrite players that somehow insist that orcs are not like that, e.g. they're in war with Draenei for some noble reason.
    I don't think anyone said that and I think everyone agrees that the war between Draenei and Orcs started because the Burning Legion tricked the Orcs.

  20. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    I'm going to assume this is going to be pointed to (though it specifically is pointed at the Twilight's Hammer but that's irrelevant to many)

    Garrosh Hellscream yells: Fellow warriors of the Horde. Hear me now!
    Garrosh Hellscream yells: Ahead hides our foe. Worshippers of chaos who seek to remake the world.
    Garrosh Hellscream yells: A new world is coming, friends. But it is not the world of their design.
    Garrosh Hellscream yells: Together, we will crush the Twilight's Hammer, raze their stronghold,
    Garrosh Hellscream yells: salt the earth, and burn the bodies. All will tremble at our might.
    Garrosh Hellscream yells: Then we will stand astride this world as its masters -
    Garrosh Hellscream yells: united in our conviction, unrivaled in strength, beholden to no one.
    Garrosh Hellscream yells: Today, WE will remake the world. Our world. FOR THE HORDE!

    Then again, Mr. Wrynn was going around saying thing like

    King Varian Wrynn says: I was away for too long. My absence cost us the lives of some of our greatest heroes. Trash like you [thrall] and this evil witch were allowed to roam free -- unchecked.
    King Varian Wrynn says: The time has come to make things right. To disband your treacherous kingdom of murderers and thieves. Putress was the first strike. Many more will come.
    King Varian Wrynn says: I've waited a long time for this, Thrall. For every time I was thrown into one of your damned arenas... for every time I killed a green-skinned aberration like you... I could only think of one thing.
    King Varian Wrynn says: What our world could be without you and your twisted Horde... It ends now, Warchief.
    King Varian Wrynn says: ATTACK! FOR STORMWIND! FOR BOLVAR! FOR THE ALLIANCE!

    I never expected such blatant misinformation from you Mistuh.

    You're using the speech Garrosh gives as they're heading towards the Twilight Highlands to fight the Twlight's HAMMER, while at the same time omitting the part when he spots the Alliance fleet as a way to excuse his words and actions in the novels and current game.

    At the same time ignoring the fact that that was the split personality WotLK Varian while ignoring the MoP Varian.
    STRESS
    The confusion caused when one's mind
    overrides the body's basic
    desire to choke the living shit out of
    some jerk who desperately needs it

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